50 replies to this topic

[CrashieJ]

Oh my god another Locusts are X Walltext thread "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!"

no not really, and I'm sure there are Locust pilots out there who would both agree and scoff at the points I'm going to address.

the locust being 20 tons gets the short end of the stick when it comes to balance (That thing PGI keeps claiming MWO has)
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Lights are basically an engine, armor and some guns... which is fine if the Guns and Engine mechanics didn't backfire on you.

when it comes to the locust though, it seems that compared to it's heavier counterparts such as the Spider and Jenner, the Locust is MWO's Cannon Fodder: Which would be fine but:

The Engine, the biggest thing in the Locust's arsenal... is the very thing that works against it.

Here's why: the 190 Rated engine is the biggest thing in MWO the locust can install, bringing it to a Blistering 169.3KPH with speedtweak. but there is a problem MWO's 169.3 is actually on par to about 120KPH in measurement, brining along the netcode limitations of PGI, makes it very slow and ergo... squishier than a Spongecake made of Gelatin.
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Hitboxes are also an issue, with the Locust's legs being the biggest "Hit me" target out there in it's weight-class and I feel it doing ungodly strafing runs in a Locust only to have my parade rained upon as a double AC10 shot to my legs grinds me to a 40kph halt... more often than my buddy that runs nothing but Spiders and Jenners.

I get that it's "cannon" but in terms of that illusive balance... it is the only balanced Light mech in a sea of Ubers.
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Now I'm sure there may be a boatload of Threads about it but I really don't feel like Necroposting, but the Locust isn't really a fighting machine. Now I'm sure that the "I am a Locust and I defy you!" thread can be used by players to go "N0p3 U iz wrong and U is Dumm" and I've done damage as a locust thanks to the map's mechanics; but the point stands "No game mode in MWO can truly bring forth the Locust's abilities". Sure a good conquest mode can be used against me but even in conquest where capping is SUPPOSED to be the main goal (or in my book "Assault... now with more bases!") gets Roflstomped by an assault lance with nowhere to run.

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finally, Compared to practically everything else in the book, the Locust has no out-of-game redeeming quality.

You might ask yourself, "What's that?"

I'm talking about Repair and Reload, that great equalizer where Assault mechs can end up draining your wallet, and Lighter mechs were more commonplace not because of "exploitative qualities" but "cost effectiveness".

"But my triple LURM 15, double Wack5s, I-See-Em toting, ATLAS-DerpDeepSea, and super jumping Pielander with STREALKER capabilities!" or something like that.

sure... you can run that pony all day long... but you're gonna pay a price every time you shuffle out in that thing.
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I admire Locust pilots, piloting the most legged mech in 2013 and 2014 running, getting shafted by both players and the mechanics of the game itself, and I am honored to run with you and cartwheel by you as JagerBombs and Jennies rip my legs from under me.

I am a Locust and I will defy you... but that doesn't mean you can't help us out a little

[SaltBeef]

I have not bought one yet but I have been killed recently by one, ( in my atlas) with multiple small lasers working on my rear armor when I was engaged with an assault mech. They are just as pesky!

[CrashieJ]

SaltBeef, on 01 February 2014 - 09:08 PM, said:

I have not bought one yet but I have been killed recently by one, ( in my atlas) with multiple small lasers working on my rear armor when I was engaged with an assault mech. They are just as pesky!

they can be awesome mechs if they go undetected and have the right distractions but for the most part if you run in those things, it makes you feel like every single pair of eyes on the enemy are trained on you

[FupDup]

Locust...balanced? What the heck have you been smoking?

[CrashieJ]

FupDup, on 01 February 2014 - 09:33 PM, said:

Locust...balanced? What the heck have you been smoking?

Whatever they grow on PGIsland

I'm serious, it's speed is nominal to fight against Assaults and sometimes Heavies, it can succumb to Mediums and Heavies with superior firepower, the hit registration and hitboxes are ideal for a light mech. Players tend to go for the legs (which should be the doctrine for all anti-light mechs) and the weapon's loadout is ideal for scouting and hit and runs....

... too bad there is no such thing as scouting... or hit and runs... or other balances to bring this 20 tonner (and the Flea) into the spotlight.

[FupDup]

gavilatius, on 01 February 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

Whatever they grow on PGIsland

I'm serious, it's speed is nominal to fight against Assaults and sometimes Heavies, it can succumb to Mediums and Heavies with superior firepower, the hit registration and hitboxes are ideal for a light mech. Players tend to go for the legs (which should be the doctrine for all anti-light mechs) and the weapon's loadout is ideal for scouting and hit and runs....

... too bad there is no such thing as scouting... or hit and runs... or other balances to bring this 20 tonner (and the Flea) into the spotlight.

Its speed is on-par with non-ECM Spiders and is slightly slower than non-ECM Commandos. It succumbs to anything and everything that can aim and is carrying more firepower than Flamers. The Locust doesn't seem to have any hit registration issues (at least, not any more than other mechs), and it doesn't have particularly good hitboxes (although this may be a body shape issue more than hitboxes...). Players going for the legs isn't a balancing factor for a mech. It's just a player habit. The weapons load isn't any better than other lights (in the case of non-3M variants, they are weaker).

In the end, we have a mech with a bunch of disadvantages...but no advantages to counteract them. That doesn't really suit my definition of "balanced."

Edited by FupDup, 01 February 2014 - 10:12 PM.

[Sephlock]

Have fun repairing that XL engine over and over and over on a Locust's earnings.

[FupDup]

Sephlock, on 01 February 2014 - 10:16 PM, said:

Have fun repairing that XL engine over and over and over on a Locust's earnings.

And the Endo Steel.

And the Ferro Fibrous.

And the DHS (assuming you're carrying more than a single ML for your weapons).

And perhaps ammo for AMS or w/e.

And you're going to die a lot; repairing a dead mech costs more than a mech with scratched paint.

Edited by FupDup, 01 February 2014 - 10:20 PM.

[Deathlike]

All I can say is this:

Spiders and Commandos agree on one thing...

Spiders and Commandos said:

Lolcust? Nom nom nom

Lessons learned on Day 1 of the Locust debut.

[Xyroc]

Its a Locust ... you cant expect too much

[Noesis]

Scout Mech is Scout Mech. Weapons incidental.

Try combining with NARC and/or Tag for LRM support even without ECM? And may get more of a purpose with this and its speed benefits with the upcoming NARC changes.

One thing that is missing from the Locust arsenal however might be MASC of course for that extra burst of speed when needed.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Problem for Locusts is the game has no dynamic objectives. Even Conquest basically comes down to killing everyone else.

Scouting isn't really necessary and can be done by better equipped light's like Jenner's.

The other problem is if a Locust runs into a mech with 2 or more Streaks they are dead.

[Holding in your farts]

I can't wait for a locust to come up as a trial mech. They sound like fun.

[Trauglodyte]

I think that the point he was trying to make is that the Locust, being a Light, suffers from what Lights should suffer. The problem, though, is that the other Lights don't. The Commando isn't much better than the Locust except for the fact that it actually has working leg armor (ie, it matches its torso armor just like EVERY other mech in the game except for the Locust) and its legs aren't 90% of its body. The problem, though, is that the freaking Spider and Jenner take the concept of Light Mech frailty and laugh.

But yes, this game is extremely lacking in dynamic missions in which the Locust might prosper. That, sadly, isn't what is holding the mech back.

[SaltBeef]

The maps could give them a few more beggars canyon escapes. Areas only they can go due to their size a small choke point Heavies have to take the long way around.

[Davers]

gavilatius, on 01 February 2014 - 09:01 PM, said:

I'm talking about Repair and Reload, that great equalizer where Assault mechs can end up draining your wallet, and Lighter mechs were more commonplace not because of "exploitative qualities" but "cost effectiveness".

"But my triple LURM 15, double Wack5s, I-See-Em toting, ATLAS-DerpDeepSea, and super jumping Pielander with STREALKER capabilities!" or something like that.

sure... you can run that pony all day long... but you're gonna pay a price every time you shuffle out in that thing.
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R&R only punished PUGs and new players. R&R is as close to P2W as MW:O has gotten.

[Maerawn]

gavilatius, on 01 February 2014 - 09:01 PM, said:

I'm talking about Repair and Reload, that great equalizer where Assault mechs can end up draining your wallet, and Lighter mechs were more commonplace not because of "exploitative qualities" but "cost effectiveness".

"But my triple LURM 15, double Wack5s, I-See-Em toting, ATLAS-DerpDeepSea, and super jumping Pielander with STREALKER capabilities!" or something like that.

sure... you can run that pony all day long... but you're gonna pay a price every time you shuffle out in that thing.

I have said this many a time, and there are multiple threads on this forum talking... no Screaming, for Repair and rearm to be reintroduced. It was removed because it was viewed as a tax on players, when in actuality, it was a great equalizing, self regulating weight limit mechanic. Like you said if i can run a light for next to no Repair and Rearm cost over an Tricked out ballistic boat like a jager, or cataphract, and/or over a Missle raining LRM machine BLR-1S that cost me an arm and a leg from my light mech to repair and rearm, you would see alot more lights and mediums dominating the battlefeild.

And a side note to everyone who QQ'd about R&R:

You were all a bunch of babies back then because you couldnt pilot your atlas all day and make cbills. Now you can pilot your atlas all day and you stand in the back scared to get shot? not sure why cause you dont have any running cost of your multi-million CBILL monster you bought.... your just a bunch of babies who got the only weight balancing mechanic removed from the game, and now ***** about weight limits... GG

[Davers]

Maerawn, on 02 February 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

You were all a bunch of babies back then because you couldnt pilot your atlas all day and make cbills. Now you can pilot your atlas all day and you stand in the back scared to get shot? not sure why cause you dont have any running cost of your multi-million CBILL monster you bought.... your just a bunch of babies who got the only weight balancing mechanic removed from the game, and now ***** about weight limits... GG

Show me a R&R system that doesn't punish new players/F2P Players/PUGs more than premades/premium timers/Hero mech buyers and maybe I might change my mind and support it.

[Nick Makiaveli]

SaltBeef, on 01 February 2014 - 09:08 PM, said:

I have not bought one yet but I have been killed recently by one, ( in my atlas) with multiple small lasers working on my rear armor when I was engaged with an assault mech. They are just as pesky!

You're welcome.

But in all seriousness, the 3M with 5 SPL is fun until someone sees you. 20 pt alpha or near constant stream of laser bolts...gotta love it!!

That said, I don't want R&R back. It hurts the new players, as in they get stuck running a partially repaired mech just to grind C-bills, and that won't make them or their teammates happy.

[Maerawn]

Davers, on 02 February 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

Show me a R&R system that doesn't punish new players/F2P Players/PUGs more than premades/premium timers/Hero mech buyers and maybe I might change my mind and support it.

First, any player within his first 25 match cadet period, doesnt get R&R charges, after the initial cadet period there would be a recruit/training period of an additional 175 matches where the charge is a flat 5K cbills, unless using a trial mech still (the R&R charges wont kick in until you run your first owned mech). This will cause the new player to be eased into the mechanic.

Second, the rearm aspect of it will be set to 25% of to total cost of the ammo used, this way pug Lurm and bullet boats dont get hurt for shooting things, and bring the rearm charge inline with the energy boat no charge. The Repair part would be a flat bracketed for the reletive tonnage of the mech, and the damage repaired. This would cause a light to have minimal repair charge even when destroyed, but a assault to have a higher running cost. This would make it viable for the average pugger, and force the assault dominated battlefield to skew to the lighter heavy, medium and light class which should dominate to field.

Third, Premium time/Hero mechs, should have an additional 2-5% cost for running a unique mech, this wont hurt because the bonus is a 30% increase, but would still work as a trade off for the benefits the premium time and hero mech bonuses bring.

Lastly, Premade groups of should have a unit charge associated with then of 2-5% that would be a due to your "mechanics" for having to repair multiple mechs at once. This could be considered the offset of the unit paying for the new players free to run mechs in the cadet/recruit period of game play.

Now that is just off the top of my head, im sure it is riddled with faults, but the basic idea structure is there so if you would like to offer opinions or suggestions on how to tweak that you are more then welcome... I just feel that there is a way to have R&R in the game that doesnt adversely effect the game and works more as a weight mechanic then as a tax on player resources. you would be more then welcome to run your assault all day long but its going to have a running cost higher then if you ran a medium instead.

Edited by Maerawn, 02 February 2014 - 10:59 AM.