13 replies to this topic

[MungFuSensei]

Here's the build: OXIDE

So far, I'm loving the weapons loadout. It gives me options in case of ECM. I average about 400dmg 2 kills, 2 assists per round. It's mainly an Assault/LRM boat assassin. Not really meant to take on other lights. If SRMs had a faster travel time, it'd be easier to take on lights, but A) I'm not that good of a light pilot and it's easier to hit big slow targets when moving really fast, so that's probably more of an issue than the SRMs.

The problem is running out of ammo. I can dominate when taking on assaults and boats, get those 2 kills, a few potshots at some other folks, and then I'm done. I don't spend time trying to get comp destructions, just straight coring folks. This mech handles that job well, but that's not always the best thing to do. I can't pad out my damage scores or get extra for comp destructions. I can't waste ammo on every mech I run past, so assists are low. This mech can't handle the long game so Skirmish is pretty much a no-no.

Thus, the game punishes me for doing my job too well. I end up having to attempt a cap with nothing to defend myself, and I don't get a big payday for kills.

The 300xl is mainly in there because I already had one and don't wanna grind out to get another. An SRM4 instead of the 6 would help to add another ton of ammo, which I should probably do.

Regardless of the problems though, I think this is how the Oxide needs to be played. Streak-boating limits your damage potential, you can't carry enough LRMs to matter, and straight SRM boating doesn't work well at the moment. A mix of the two allows to damage potential and some defense if you get jumped by another light. Play the Oxide like an assassin. It's very similar to Commandos in this regard. You're not trying to dominate the battlefield. You just wanna dominate one or two enemies, swing the numbers in your team's favor, and then support where you can.

I think it's time for people to stop equating "hard-to-play" with "this mech sucks and needs a buff". The Oxide is fine.

[levitas]

The game isn't punishing you for doing your job too well, your build is punishing you for not preparing in a way that allows you to do more than a couple hundred. Worse still, it prevents you from doing more than a couple hundred while not even allowing you to do most of it to specific parts. By compromising between streaks and srms, you're attempting to get two firepower roles out of a light mech, something you simply do not have the tonnage for.

In my opinion, which I know you've probably tried and disagree with, either a straight SRM build or a straight SSRM build would be better. SRMs only would allow you to minimize exposure time and engage heavier enemies with guerrilla style tactics, just peeking long enough to throw 16-32 damage per shot at them. SSRMs would limit your usefulness against non-lights to shaking them, but allow you to finish off red enemies and eliminate lone light cappers.

Lights need to specialize, or they simply lack the punch to be effective.

[jper4]

mind you this is with all streaks but i dropped the engine to an xl280 and manage to get 4 tons of ammo in. only ran out of ammo one or twice and that was a match that went under the 3 minute mark.i haven't noticed the 10kph or so lost in the exchange to be much of a factor. enough speed to stay in range to get 3 or 4 volleys off at a fleeing light which is usually enough to seriously damage it if not knock a few pieces off before it finds something to duck behind.

also a minor point, i found all streaks doesn;t hurt the damage potential as much as the potential for kills. my damage/kill ratio tends to run much higher in the oxide (and KTO 18 streaktaro for that matter) because the streaks are hitting all over the place so you seldom get that damage all landing where it's needed to kill something.

[TercieI]

Tanar, on 01 February 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

mind you this is with all streaks but i dropped the engine to an xl280 and manage to get 4 tons of ammo in.

???

Gremlin

If you have a 280, you should have 5 tons.

[DEMAX51]

I also disagree with the assertion that the all-Streak build limits damage. Streaks generate substantial damage numbers, it's just so spread out that it isn't particularly effective against anything but Lights. Streaks definitely negatively impact your ability to get kills, but damage is amped up, not gimped.

Edited by DEMAX51, 02 February 2014 - 03:08 PM.

[A Tin Can]

I wouldn't recommend running streaks without a BAP to combat enemy ECM. If I really wanted to run your weapons loadout, I would probably do something like this.

When considering how much ammo to take, I like to think about how many shots/alpha strikes I'll get. With only 200 SRMs, you'll get 16 shots out of your SRM launchers before you run out (200/12). With 100 SSRMs, you'll get 25 shots from your SSRMs before they run out (100/4). I wouldn't expect that to last very long in game - it's 16 alpha strikes, followed by 9 SSRM4 shots. Personally, this means I probably wouldn't run your build.

For comparison, I can get 62 alpha strikes out of this streak build before it runs dry (5 tonnes, XL280 - 500/8 = 62). I don't tend to run out of ammo with 5 tonnes, though I found that I did when I was running 3-4 tonnes. I do 400-600 damage in an average game, and I agree with what the others have said about increased damage, but fewer kills.

Of course with SSRMs, I recommend you use chain fire rather than alpha strikes for maximum cockpit shake - the alpha strike count is just so I can estimate how long I can fight with a particular build.

[A Tin Can]

I just noticed that my numbers were off, since you're running an SRM6 and an SRM4, not two 6's. You will get 20 shots from the SRMs, and 25 from the streaks, of course.

Thinking about this some more - the maximum damage potential of your build is 650 damage:

SRM6+ SRM4: 12 damage + 8 damage, times 20 shots = 20 damage times 20 shots = 400 damage from SRMs
SSRMs: 5 damage x 2 launchers, times 25 shots = 10 damage * 25 shots = 250 damage from SSRMs

Whereas the maximum damage potential of the streak build with five tonnes of ammo is around 1240:

SSRMs 5 damage x 4 launchers, times 62 shots = 20 damage time 62 shots = 1240

(the damage potential is actually 1250, since 500 shots doesn't divide into 8 - you actually get 62.5 alphas).

This means that a 400 damage game is around 60% of the maximum damage it's possible to do in the SRM10/Streak4 build, which is pretty cool.

60% of the maximum damage in the streak build is 750 - but since the DPS is slower in the all-streak build, I don't know if you'll regularly experience numbers that high before the match ends (or you get killed).

[jper4]

Terciel1976, on 02 February 2014 - 02:57 PM, said:

???

Gremlin

If you have a 280, you should have 5 tons.

had to go look it up (i have too many mechs)- i have AMS in it and a bit less armor to account for the missing ton and change just in case i run across something with streaks.

[TercieI]

Tanar, on 03 February 2014 - 05:55 AM, said:

had to go look it up (i have too many mechs)- i have AMS in it and a bit less armor to account for the missing ton and change just in case i run across something with streaks.

Interesting. Not my choice of trade-off, but ok.

[jper4]

Terciel1976, on 03 February 2014 - 06:01 AM, said:

Interesting. Not my choice of trade-off, but ok.

thought about leaving it out for either the engine or another ton of ammo since LRMs can be outrun and all (don't think my other Jenners have it) but i figure more ecm lights carry streaks themselves so if they actually team up and counter my BAP i may as well try to minimize the damage they're doing to me while i try to get out of the second ECM's range. my other jenners carry lasers so ecm won't matter to them.

plus like i think i said before, 4 tons of ammo has been enough in 99% of my matches in it, so an extra ton wouldn;t really offer additional benefit to me.

[TercieI]

Tanar, on 03 February 2014 - 06:10 AM, said:

thought about leaving it out for either the engine or another ton of ammo since LRMs can be outrun and all (don't think my other Jenners have it) but i figure more ecm lights carry streaks themselves so if they actually team up and counter my BAP i may as well try to minimize the damage they're doing to me while i try to get out of the second ECM's range. my other jenners carry lasers so ecm won't matter to them.

plus like i think i said before, 4 tons of ammo has been enough in 99% of my matches in it, so an extra ton wouldn;t really offer additional benefit to me.

I agree about 4 tons, I just won't run a Jenner with less than an XL295 (partly because if I get double-countered, there's no hope of escape with an XL280, though, admittedly, it can be a death sentence with any engine.

Oxide is best in a light pack, so hopefully another BAP/ECM or two with you.

Edited by Terciel1976, 03 February 2014 - 06:20 AM.

[jper4]

Terciel1976, on 03 February 2014 - 06:19 AM, said:

I agree about 4 tons, I just won't run a Jenner with less than an XL295 (partly because if I get double-countered, there's no hope of escape with an XL280, though, admittedly, it can be a death sentence with any engine.

Oxide is best in a light pack, so hopefully another BAP/ECM or two with you.

i don't really see a lot of oxides around anymore but i do try to pal around with any ecm light on my side. if i can BAP then the other guy doesn;t have to switch his ecm to counter so we can shoot the other guy and he can't streak back. i haven;t really run into any issues with the 280, PUG lights tend to get distracted quickly enough so that double counter turns into "ooh that catapult has it's back to me!" and suddenly BAP starts working again i do see it being a potential problem with organized groups though. my other jenners run 300s (at least the F does i forget what i have in sarah's mech)

[Victor Morson]

Three problems with your build:

1- The Oxide isn't very good at regular SRMs. It's a streakboat for a reason.
2- You don't have BAP.
3- You don't have Artemis (which offers an unlisted lock time advantage to Streaks.)

My suggestion? Give in to the one good build on this 'mech and setup with 4 Streak/2s, Artemis, BAP, and go wreck some light 'mechs entirely. It's kind of a one note 'mech but it does what it does very well.

Edited by Victor Morson, 05 February 2014 - 02:39 AM.

[-Muta-]

I use mine with x4 SSRM2, 400 ammo + BAP.

(a nightmare for other light mechs) Usually over 600-700 damge. The highest I have scored is 917.