54 replies to this topic

[Unnatural Growth]

I like to run mixed weapon builds myself. But even I don't mix missile types on same chassis. There's just not enough room or weight capacity to put in enough ammo. Especially if that chassis mounts ballistics (cannons) too. I would pick either LRM's or SRM's,but not both. For whichever chassis you go with, fill the legs with ammo. Having said that, I am one who usually runs max armor on all my heavy and assault mechs. So, yes I store ammo in my legs, but the armor there is max.

On any of these builds, you really need dual heat sinks. I think that mod is mandatory. Sure a few "joke" builds run without them. But most of us aren't running joke builds. You will fire and shut down, fire and shut down, etc. Not worth taking to the battlefield.

I don't run Atlai, so can't give you any specific advice on them, and it seems like those that do already have. I do run Highlanders though. For your specific Highlander build, I would drop the LRM launcher completely, lower the SRM's to SRM 4's, put in 2 tons of SRM ammo, and drop the ERLL's to LL's. Then fill the legs with AC 5 ammo + 1 ton in CT, place your AMS ammo in your head, and use that empty left arm as a shield arm in battle.

With 2 AC 5's, you will burn through ammo fast. I would field at least 5 tons of ammo for 2xAC 5's. If you really want to run LRM's, then take out the SRM's and put 2xLRM 5's in their place in the torso. 2 tons of LRM ammo should feed them. Here's my current 733C build:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5bfd371455fbb62

I'm running an AC20 myself, and running the largest XL I can cram in there. XL 325. The Highlander is slow and cumbersome, so the largest engine possible helps. Also run at least 2 jump jets. I'm running 3 on all but my 732 build. The benefit of running a Highlander is it's an assault with jump jets. The benefit of running an Atlas is one variant can equip ECM. It's up to you to decide which one you prefer.

Putting an XL engine in an Atlas is suicide. Putting one in a Highlander is risky for sure, as is putting ammo in torso, but I feel that if the side torso goes you're dead anyway, so may as well put ammo in there. Lol. You do have to use that left arm as a shield as much as possible. I would also always field AMS. I know some guys will say you don't need it, but in a mech that maxes out (top rated engine and speed tweak unlock) at 60 Kph, you can't get out of the LRM rain fast enough.

Here's a modified build with a pair of AC5's and a standard engine you might like:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3c3806561bd701a

You will have to watch your heat. Chain fire the 2 LL's when possible. I would prefer more heat sinks and a ton more LRM and AC 5 ammo plus another JJ, but the added weight of the STD engine has to come off somewhere.

EDITED for typos

Edited by OldOrgandonor, 01 February 2014 - 07:32 AM.

[BaconTWOfourACTUAL]

I like it....

To free up extra room, I'd go with an XL 215 engine.... you know, for more ammo...

Easy prey for my Spider or Shadow Hawk

[luxebo]

Alright, if you're gonna go for a missile boating Atlas, put on Atermis, Endo, DHS, TAG, BAP, all the needed things for a missile boat. Atlases usually shouldn't go for being missile boats, but they can. A good example would be modification of the Atlas RS(C). Also, rather than taking screenshots of your smurfy builds, just post the link by saving that build.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...75c86a3d22687b1 This is a alright recreation of Atlas RS(C).

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d4cd7657b6f5be1 Not bad if you like Ultra AC5, plus using same chassis.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f86a2fe1a6f66aa With the DDC, put on ECM, and make sure to do your job as a beachhead.

General advice: You need 3 variants of a chassis in order to master the chassis. The variants go something similar to this:
DDC > RS > BH > D > K. Atlas BH is a hero, it needs real life money to get it for MC. Atlas K is most expensive but has the best engine and I personally think it's not as good. Neither of these two variants can missile boat at all. Give yourself a good 30 missiles, in flight, as this would be a solid amount to damage the enemy. RS has arm mounted laser ports but trades that for a single ballistic port while D has center mounted laser ports with an extra ballistic hardpoint. DDC is overall best due to it's ECM, and ECM doesn't need BAP. Hope I helped.

[JigglyMoobs]

GhostWalkn, on 01 February 2014 - 03:49 AM, said:

I guess this is my final post (when can I get no posting restrictions!?). Actually I can make another post... anyway I'm having a lot of fun putting together these builds, lol

So I swapped from the Atlas to the not too different HighlanderC

What separates this from that is I haven't quite put all my eggs in one basket. This monster has 4 weapon systems, an Endo structure, AND an XL engine. How in the heck that I fit in all that? I'm not really sure, but Ammo count may be the only real problem with this mech. There are only 2 cannisters of each fitting, and 1.06 spare tons. I'd prefer an extra ton of AC ammo and I even have that one ton, but no slot... but there is a pair of heavy ER lasers, so I don't think two SRM6's or one LRM20 will go through a couple tons ammo all that quickly.

Without the endo structure and XL engine there's no way I'd spare the weight for all of those guns. I'm surprised there's as much ammo as there is. And there's still an AMS.

Both mech have AC5s... at range or up close they'd be pretty similar, but I think the highlander leans toward closer ranges and the Atlas would at longer ranges. But both are flexible, this one is HIGHLY (cough) versatile

yeah you could just change everything again but the SRM6s are so powerful for only 2 slots, how could I resist? the only real "waste" is the LRM20 but I had to have something besides just a couple of lasers for distant pecking. That said if I got three SRM it would basically become a close range brawler and I'd have more ammo, if I could use it all

here it is...

I suggest staying away from XL engines.

1. They are really expensive.
2. They decrease the survivability of your assault mech substantially. The reason is that one of the advantages of an assault mech is the huge amount of CT armor that you have. If you take an XL engine, a hit to either side torso will take you out. In this case the enemy will have much less armor to drill through.

The only assault where they are beneficial is the Victor, where the speed and weight advantage they bring outweigh the extra vulnerability.

Weapons and other stuff you can easily swap out and try for yourself, but the XL engine is almost as expensive as a medium mech.

For the weapons mixes, you can experiment on your own, but keep in mind some tactics and information for the effective usage of your mechs.

• How much damage you can do is usually limited by obstacles, aim, and heat output of your mech, not how many weapons you carry.
  
• Point damage is much better than spread damage because the objective is to destroy individual components on a mech
  
• LRMs suffer from low hit probability and high spread.
  
• SRMs suffer from hit detection issues in the current game (meaning they do much less damage than they should).
  
• Lasers suffer from some hit detection issues. They also do dmage over a significant duration during which they can wander all over the enemy mech or miss completely. This makes them less effective at range - ie, no point getting er-LL over LL unless you are in a very specialized mech.
  
• PPCs are significantly better than lasers because their damage is dealt in a single impulse, making the damage more focused and requiring much less exposure as you fire.
  
• Jump jets bring a huge advantage in maneuverability and survivability.
  
• Speed is a huge advantage and makes mechs more fun to play.
  
• Jump sniping using PPCs + AC or Gauss is the most dominant tactic
  
• Large assault mechs are priority targeted by every other mech on the battle field
  
• Assaults that torso twist are much more survivable than assaults that don't
  
• You will face all sorts of enemies on the battlefield that challenge your mechs in different ways that the simple idea of range doesn't capture. A mech needs to combine speed, maneuverability, with weapons and tactics to deal with them. When it comes to weapons load, some times less is more.

In terms of assaults, in terms of effectiveness:

Highlanders > Victors >= Stalkers > Atlases

Victors are probably the most fun because of the high speed and jump jet maneuverability. Atlases are most frustrating because of the low speed, and low weapon mounts making it difficult to shoot over obstacles.

A game on Caustic Valley in a Highlander 733C

[JigglyMoobs]

And also a game in an Atlas:



And a very close one in a Victor:

[Void Angel]

Battlemasters can make good use of XLs as well - but Moobs is absolutely right: stay away from XLs on assaults, at least until you know more about what you're doing.

GhostWalkn, on 01 February 2014 - 03:49 AM, said:

So I swapped from the Atlas to the not too different HighlanderC

What separates this from that is I haven't quite put all my eggs in one basket. This monster has 4 weapon systems, an Endo structure, AND an XL engine. How in the heck that I fit in all that? I'm not really sure, but Ammo count may be the only real problem with this mech. There are only 2 cannisters of each fitting, and 1.06 spare tons. I'd prefer an extra ton of AC ammo and I even have that one ton, but no slot... but there is a pair of heavy ER lasers, so I don't think two SRM6's or one LRM20 will go through a couple tons ammo all that quickly.

Without the endo structure and XL engine there's no way I'd spare the weight for all of those guns. I'm surprised there's as much ammo as there is. And there's still an AMS.

Both mech have AC5s... at range or up close they'd be pretty similar, but I think the highlander leans toward closer ranges and the Atlas would at longer ranges. But both are flexible, this one is HIGHLY (cough) versatile

yeah you could just change everything again but the SRM6s are so powerful for only 2 slots, how could I resist? the only real "waste" is the LRM20 but I had to have something besides just a couple of lasers for distant pecking. That said if I got three SRM it would basically become a close range brawler and I'd have more ammo, if I could use it all

The problem with generalist 'mechs is that focused 'mechs tend to be more effective. The faster you can kill an enemy at your chosen range, the less damage he can do to your team, and the greater the advantage you get from the kill. So the only way a generalist build is sensible is if you are both out of space and heat-limited in what you can fire - and nearly always you'll get more from spending more tons for less space on an autocannon of some kind. In theory, balanced builds can work, but it's hard to do in practice, if not impossible for some builds and chassis. I wouldn't try and do it.

Here is the Atlas I'm using now (I was using a hillbilly shotgun LB-10X stack before; still like it, but I'm trying on more speed.) It's got about the most speed and cooling I can get on it, and it is a monster at close ranges. The AC/20 can operate fairly well out to 540m in a pinch, but in order to use this 'mech, you have to get up close and personal - which is what teamwork, cover, concealment, and ECM are for. My Highlander, on the other hand, is a dedicated long-range 'mech, with the UAC/5 stack on the arm preventing me from being totally helpless at close range. Still, within 90m I'm a really tough, under-armed Jaegermech - so I need to work with my team and ensure that I can engage at long range and without being unduly harassed. This build is still in progress, but it works pretty well when I use it correctly - and my team doesn't fold, but that's always a hazard.

What I'm trying to illustrate is that I've found that focusing your build to do one thing well is superior to doing two things with moderate proficiency - which is what your builds seem to be trying to do. If you make a 'mech that's half sniper and half brawler, you're going to lose to both pure brawlers AND pure snipers.

[JigglyMoobs]

Void Angel has two classic mech builds for the Atlas and the Highlander. If his Atlas ran into your build at 300 m, your build would be dead in 30 seconds or less, and there is no way for your to get away from him because your Atlas is so slow.

On the other hand, if you see his Highlander at 500m, he has already shot you and dropped back out of sight before you can even lock on. Worse yet, each time this happens, he would have put 30 pts of damage on one of your components, perhaps the same component if he's good and you give him the opportunity. Couple of minutes later, your mech will be a smoking wreck and you would have dealt almost no significant damage to him. In fact Highlanders usually travel with friends and lots of people also bring arty and air strikes. Your mech is so slow that you'll be an ideal target for air strike, so you might be dead in as little as 10 seconds.

This is why there are almost no "balanced" mechs playing at higher levels of skill. People will always seek to engage in situations of maximum advantage. If you are "balanced" you simply cannot find one.

Assaults can die shockingly quickly when engaged by heavies or groups of lights if you are doing something as simple as looking in the wrong direction. For example checkout what happens to the Atlas at 3:50. He's looking the wrong way at 3:50. I start shooting him with a Jager mech specialized in doing rapid fire damage at 3:52, and activate an arty strike on him at the same time. At 4:00 he's effectively out for the match.



Or this guy, who made the mistake of walking forward without his team. The problem is as an Atlas, you cannot stop quick enough to change your mind.



A minute later, the same thing happens again. Except this time it's an Atlas that thought his team was charging, but they stopped and he could not:



Or what happened to me in this game here - Things were going great until I got over eager, shut down and got stuck. Every mech on the other team in a 500 m radius saw ATLAS and pressed fire.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 01 February 2014 - 06:23 PM.

[GhostWalkn]

It's me again. Thankfully I didn't purchase any Atlas just yet. I needed a first mech so I opted for a Thunderbolt, which is working pretty well.

Since that will be my all-round mech, I still want an Atlas for duty. I definitely missed one big thing about the Atlas variant: you either get a highly specialized weapon loadout but most Atlas I bet will be the DC, packing ECM!

So here is my DC. I listened to a lot of feedback and opted to NOT use the XL on the Atlas, it being the largest target on the battlefield. STD 300 should be enough to at least get moving.

Weapon loadout is pretty simple: Ultra AC5s with 4 tons of ammo, Triple SRM6's with 3 tons of ammo, twin ERPPCs. Armor is slightly down because I included the AMS

something I reckon is true; the ERPPC consume a lot of heat. I'd probably not even fire 3 back-to-back volleys without overheating. But I understand the guns are placed pretty low, so even if I tried to pop and fire, the mech is so slow as I'm entering cover again, that I'd still be consistently firing volleys of PPC. Really they are there for long range support, or if I need an extra kick in a pinch. Up close the SRMs are terrifying.

Edited by GhostWalkn, 02 February 2014 - 11:31 PM.

[Parappaman]

Build is too hot to be anywhere near usable. Armor is too low in the critical areas (chest, mainly front). You will die easily by light mechs. The 300 engine will make you feel sluggish, and will prevent you from tanking damage by torso twisting. Also, storing ammo anywhere in an Atlas' chest is suicide.
Check this out:

AS7-D-DC

Edited by Parappaman, 03 February 2014 - 12:18 AM.

[Modo44]

You want at least 30%, preferably over 40% cooling efficiency in Smurfy. Going lower will prevent most of your weapons from firing most of the time.

Personally, I would downgrade to ER Large Lasers and SSRM2s. An Atlas with 2xERLL+2xUAC5+3xSSRM2 has scary long-range firepower. The missiles work as self-defense against fast mechs.

[Naduk]

AS7-D
try this build, i think you will like it
max speed and a good spread of weapons
group your medium lasers and LBX together

there is plenty of room for fiddling you can swap out the SRM for LRM
and the Mlas for Slas and grab some ams or a mg
swap the Mlas for Flamers
lots of options
my wife runs the Flamers and loves it , she has made many people cry with it

[dragnier1]

Yes, the atlas arms are pretty low. I often find myself shooting the terrain with my arm mounted lasers while aiming at mechs standing much higher than my atlas. Plus, atlases seem to have a big "shoot me" tag over them, i sometimes turn to shoot an atlas even if i'm chasing some other target.

Edit:
The pros of Parappaman's design:
1. 340 engine. Heavy, but the increased speed (60 km/h with speed tweak - elite tier skill) and faster leg turning means you're more agile against faster opponents.
2. ERPPCs and dual UAC 5s both do the same thing. The UACs do better as they produce much less heat. The med lasers will come in handy when opponents close in on you or vice versa.

You can also consider:
1. Change your srms to streaks. Streak srms + ecm make for a deadly combo (press J to switch between disrupt and counter mode). The extra weight you saved can be used for more double heat sinks, armor and ammo. (6 tons of uac 5 ammo and 2 tons of streak srm ammo are enough)

Edited by dragnier1, 03 February 2014 - 03:37 AM.

[Void Angel]

GhostWalkn, on 02 February 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

It's me again. Thankfully I didn't purchase any Atlas just yet. I needed a first mech so I opted for a Thunderbolt, which is working pretty well.

Since that will be my all-round mech, I still want an Atlas for duty. I definitely missed one big thing about the Atlas variant: you either get a highly specialized weapon loadout but most Atlas I bet will be the DC, packing ECM!

So here is my DC. I listened to a lot of feedback and opted to NOT use the XL on the Atlas, it being the largest target on the battlefield. STD 300 should be enough to at least get moving.

Weapon loadout is pretty simple: Ultra AC5s with 4 tons of ammo, Triple SRM6's with 3 tons of ammo, twin ERPPCs. Armor is slightly down because I included the AMS

something I reckon is true; the ERPPC consume a lot of heat. I'd probably not even fire 3 back-to-back volleys without overheating. But I understand the guns are placed pretty low, so even if I tried to pop and fire, the mech is so slow as I'm entering cover again, that I'd still be consistently firing volleys of PPC. Really they are there for long range support, or if I need an extra kick in a pinch. Up close the SRMs are terrifying.

My Thunderbuddy is seriously the most durable thing I have piloted other than an Atlas. It is amazingly tough - I have had lancemates spectating me actually ask, "how are you still alive?"

As has been pointed out by others, the ERPPCs are simply too hot, and using them will interfere with your ability to fire your UAC stack. I'd recommend something like this; you'd use the UAC/5s at medium ranges, then swap to the SRMs after you got in close and they jammed (the larges you use at all applicable ranges, as heat allows.) You might also use this one, and punish your enemies at medium ranges without needing to get close. Avoid long-range combat with an Atlas. Other 'mechs, from Jaegermechs to Stalkers to Highlanders, simply do it better, for a variety of reasons. Also be aware that using any small-caliber AC (and laser weapons, to a lesser extent,) reduces your ability to survive attack and deal damage at the same time - since you must train your torso constantly toward the enemy in order to deal damage, and cannot twist.

In piloting an Atlas, you really would rather not be popping in and out of cover if you can help it. Not that you can, and certainly should, use cover; but your noticeability and your slowness make trying to corner-peek or hill-hump a doubly bad idea; first because you're so big and broad you'll take damage anyway - and also because when other people see the Atlas hiding, they're going to be more reticent themselves.

Your slow speed means more than simply more time spent vulnerable while moving in and out of cover - it also means that you cannot control the engagement range except when you are on the attack. The result is that long-range weapons such as the ER Large Laser should be chosen in order to extend the range at which you can engage enemies you are approaching - the ERPPC is nearly always disadvised. I'm not telling you that you shouldn't fire at long-range targets, or that you always have to be a knife-range huggle brawler, or that you should always be charging blindly after the enemy. I am telling you that you have to be offensively minded with any Atlas build you try - or your own frustration will be matched only by the hatred of your teammates. =)

PS: can you do me a favor? Instead of posting the full screenshot in the post, use the Link button at the top to make a hyperlink to your post, like this. It'll make your posts more manageable to read and quote.

[Mazzyplz]

Modo44, on 01 February 2014 - 01:17 AM, said:

You have two very ammo-hungry weapons systems. Consider switching to one big gun or lower LRM versions.

Going below STD300 on an Atlas makes you a much too easy target. Consider using Endo Steel to boost the engine rating.

You have way too much back armor, and the legs could be stripped more.

Basic upgrade with LRM15s, Endo Steel and modified armor values: take this.

maybe like this?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1602b8c468b0bcc

remove one medlas to only have 3, downgrade engine to a lower rating by one, and add lrm20 on one launcher instead of a 15

[Void Angel]

The best way to balance ammunition needs on a 'mech is to start by asking yourself, "how many seconds of combat do I have from this ammunition?" If you wait for both LRMs to recycle before you fire, you have 95 seconds of combat on that system (plus a partial volley.) The AC/5s give you 90 seconds as well, which should be enough if you're engaging in midrange combat with the team.

However, I'd downgrade the LRM20 back to a 15, lose a heat sink, Upgrade the engine to a 325, and add Artemis and TAG - you're using enough tonnage for missiles that not taking those systems too is a waste. Like so. I expect that the current metagame in PuGs isn't going to be kind to this 'mech, but if I were to use it, I would engage targets in the open at 600m, preferably where most of their team couldn't see me, and use the medium lasers only as a last resort for close defense.

[JigglyMoobs]

GhostWalkn, on 02 February 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

It's me again. Thankfully I didn't purchase any Atlas just yet. I needed a first mech so I opted for a Thunderbolt, which is working pretty well.

Since that will be my all-round mech, I still want an Atlas for duty. I definitely missed one big thing about the Atlas variant: you either get a highly specialized weapon loadout but most Atlas I bet will be the DC, packing ECM!

So here is my DC. I listened to a lot of feedback and opted to NOT use the XL on the Atlas, it being the largest target on the battlefield. STD 300 should be enough to at least get moving.

Weapon loadout is pretty simple: Ultra AC5s with 4 tons of ammo, Triple SRM6's with 3 tons of ammo, twin ERPPCs. Armor is slightly down because I included the AMS

something I reckon is true; the ERPPC consume a lot of heat. I'd probably not even fire 3 back-to-back volleys without overheating. But I understand the guns are placed pretty low, so even if I tried to pop and fire, the mech is so slow as I'm entering cover again, that I'd still be consistently firing volleys of PPC. Really they are there for long range support, or if I need an extra kick in a pinch. Up close the SRMs are terrifying.

Ghost Walkn,

As others have said, ER PPC is too hot to use on almost any mech at the moment because of the ridiculous heat output.

PPCs might be a better choice. However, lasers would also be viable on an Atlas.

When I said PPCs>lasers, that's mostly if you are piloting mechs that can JJ or have high mounted weapon arms (Stalker) that allow them to shoot over obstacles. With the Atlas you will be exposed anyways and you can't easily duck back under cover, so heat becomes a more important consideration than the way the damage is dealt. I wish lasers worked better. They are OK at the moment, but just OK.

This is my DDC:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9564e824cb8d929

Now to suite your choices of lower engines and UAC5s (which will give you a bit of longer range punch), you can do something like this:

AS7-D-DC UAC5 STD 325

I would not go below 40% efficiency personally and would not take something slower than an STD320 because. If you do STD300, you can move ok, but once you are attacked by lights, you'll find it almost impossible to hit them with your torso weapons.

The STD325 is nice because it has 3 internal heat sink slots. This is important because you'll want endo steel, which takes up a lot of free slots.

Now if you want larger lasers and less SRMs to give you slightly easier aiming, longer range, punch, you can try this. It does give off more heat, so you have to be careful about how you fire. I would try to use either UAC5 or SRM6s up close. You can for example, fire the UACs until they jam, fire the laser, and the SRMs, then fire the UACs again.

AS7-D-DC, STD 325, 2xLL, 3xSRM6, 2xUAC5

[luxebo]

GhostWalkn, on 02 February 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

Weapon loadout is pretty simple: Ultra AC5s with 4 tons of ammo, Triple SRM6's with 3 tons of ammo, twin ERPPCs. Armor is slightly down because I included the AMS

That is a very hot build, even hotter than I'm used to. Sometimes I ran SHS builds due to lack of money and while their hot, this build would likely be very hot. I suggest going for Atermis for those SRMs. Always Atermis SRMs if you have that weight (sometimes not needed however). Ultra AC5s up to you, but the jamming maybe bad for you. ER PPCs are far far far too hot for that kind of build, if you're going for ER PPCs, best to ignore missiles completely and go dual ER PPC dual Ultra AC5 or something similar to that, but not recommended either way. Best to have your lasers be expendable, as you'd lose them often with your torso twist.

Also, that armor is very low as well and placement of armor is somewhat bad, needs a lot of frontal armor for any Atlas. Back Armor is far too much.

[Asmudius Heng]

Quick comment, put your AMS ammo in your head, its pretty safe there in case your torso or arms get shot off and you lose your ammo while still having your AMS.

[JigglyMoobs]

Well I tried to build the mechs I suggested but realized I don't have an STD 325 anymore

At any rate good luck.

One more thing, pay attention to the armor distribution front to back. What I have on those builds are about right. When it comes to damage, the amount that an Atlas can absorb is just as important as the amount it can dish out.

[Void Angel]

Yeah, don't be one of those guys who only put 2 points into their rear arcs. My Atlas is seldom destroyed before I have lost all the armor from front sections, most from the back, with at least one side torso utterly destroyed.

PS: "Atlai" is not a word. Because Atlas isn't spelled like cactus.