20 replies to this topic

[Zeede]

JM6-DD

Thoughts?

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Storing ammo in your legs while reducing the armor is inviting serious problems from anyone else using an LB-X OR any number of machine guns.

The standard engine is nice, but even on a Jaeger, you're missing part of the point if you're not using CASE to prevent ammo explosions from reaching your center torso.

62 seems rather slow for something with that much of a tendency towards close-range combat.

And with four machine guns, you may want a second ton of ammo if you find you last for any length of time in close quarters.

Not that it seems terrible or unusable, but it looks a bit on the poor side.

Edited by Elli Gujar, 20 February 2014 - 10:02 AM.

[Appogee]

Could be fun, though it's slow, and I doubt the MGs will be of much practical use given you already have two LBXs.

I'd be inclined to drop the MGs, add more LBX ammo and try to make one of the MLs an ERL so you can do damage at distance. Or instead build this on the Jager with the 2B & 4E slots, and use 4 MLs in the torsos.

I don't think the leg armor is an issue. No-one aims for a Jager's legs.

Edited by Appogee, 20 February 2014 - 10:18 AM.

[DONTOR]

Same as whats been said a bit too slow for what is essentially a very close range build, maybe it could work if you just pick an atlas and follow it.

[VXJaeger]

Pretty much fail. There's no weapons to make a hole into internals for those critting weapons.
May work if you follow others who first blast armor out of enemies.
If you wanna go with LBX, this might work better.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Appogee, on 20 February 2014 - 10:17 AM, said:

I don't think the leg armor is an issue. No-one aims for a Jager's legs.

Well... this has more to do with people not actually metagaming. (If you try to relate this to the way the term 'meta' is commonly used around MWO, I may have to shoot myself. Or you. Someone's getting shot.) Personally, I -always- go for the legs on a Jaeger. They're barrel-shaped, easy to hit, and often either short-armored, packed with explosives, or (distressingly frequently) both.



I'm disinclined to like VX's reccomendation- as fun as AC/20's are, going to an XL engine with a Jaeger's large side torsos is not often an improvement, and the Medium Pulse Lasers are iffy in my book.

Edited by Elli Gujar, 20 February 2014 - 10:39 AM.

[Appogee]

Elli Gujar, on 20 February 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

Well... this has more to do with people not metagaming. Personally, I -always- go for the legs on a Jaeger. They're barrel-shaped, easy to hit, and often either short-armored, packed with explosives, or (distressingly frequently) both.

Really? I find they're easy enough to kill through the side torso as they'e almost always packing an XL engine.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Appogee, on 20 February 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

Really? I find they're easy enough to kill through the side torso as they'e almost always packing an XL engine.

Yeah, but it's harder to find someone who went sub-armor on a side torso, and besides, if it's legged you can more or less pick it off at your leisure (or just leave it behind to go after something that's still fully functional and murdering someone else on your team).

Not that you're wrong, mind. They -are- fairly easy to side torso too, I just find it personally easier to go for the feet.

Edited by Elli Gujar, 20 February 2014 - 10:41 AM.

[Appogee]

Elli Gujar, on 20 February 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

Not that you're wrong, mind. They -are- fairly easy to side torso too, I just find it personally easier to go for the feet.

Thanks, I'll try that out in tonight's games and see how it fares.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Incidentally, App, I would just like to take this post to thank you for not turning a minor disagreement into a shouting match.

You're a pretty coll guy. Yuo explode Jaegers and doesn't afraid of anything.

[Zeede]

Therein lies the issue w/ closer ranged Jagermech builds. I have a dual Gauss Rifle JM6-S that I love, and it has an XL engine, but that's partly due to the weight of the weapons, and because I'm generally not "in the thick of it".

Jagermechs DO benefit from an XL engine since they can really mount some heavy weaponry, but then they have the issue of having large side torsos (and no "shield arms" like some other mechs have).

I guess the choice comes down to being more squishy but more heavily armed, or less squishy but less scary.

I really wanted my DD to be more than a S build with less energy hardpoints.

Anyone run a 3x AC/5 build before? That would certainly give me more range (and therefore more safety w/ the XL engine). and with three chain firing it should rock cockpits pretty well.

(and yes, I know about 2x AC/20 builds and 3x UAC/5 builds, but I wanted to try something different).

[Valdemaar]

Zeede, on 20 February 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

Therein lies the issue w/ closer ranged Jagermech builds. I have a dual Gauss Rifle JM6-S that I love, and it has an XL engine, but that's partly due to the weight of the weapons, and because I'm generally not "in the thick of it".

Jagermechs DO benefit from an XL engine since they can really mount some heavy weaponry, but then they have the issue of having large side torsos (and no "shield arms" like some other mechs have).

I guess the choice comes down to being more squishy but more heavily armed, or less squishy but less scary.

I really wanted my DD to be more than a S build with less energy hardpoints.

Anyone run a 3x AC/5 build before? That would certainly give me more range (and therefore more safety w/ the XL engine). and with three chain firing it should rock cockpits pretty well.

(and yes, I know about 2x AC/20 builds and 3x UAC/5 builds, but I wanted to try something different).

The JM6-DD is probably my favorite heavy chassis. Here's a couple different builds I've tried that work pretty well:

This one is decent if range is a must. XL300 lets you be pretty speedy and the mix of AC/5 and MG lets you give continued dakka. Group 1 for the AC/5, Group 2 for the MG, and Group 3 for the Medium Laser as a backup weapon.

This one is a variation of your original build. If you know how to handle it and when to strike then it makes quick work of opponents. The downside of course is that if you get singled out or your team mates pull a retreat you won't last long. I tend to just follow an assault or group of other heavies and I fare well enough.

And finally I've dubbed this build "The Can Opener." I've completely forgone large caliber ballistics and instead filled it with MG's. Slap in a pair of Large Pulse Lasers for cutting power and the guns will take care of the rest in a hail of sweet sweet dakka. With the recent buff to LPL's this build is working pretty well again. If you're dubious of it's effectiveness just get behind someone, open up the rear armor with the LPL's and let the MG's do the rest. It will not take long

[Ruccus]

I've tried similar builds on my Jaegers, but I've found running a 225 engine makes it too slow for my tastes and if you want to try to exploit crits you're going to want enough speed to prevent an enemy mech from fleeing between the time you're able to strip down to the internals and the time it takes to fill that part of the mech with crit-capable damage.

I'd suggest something like this JM6-DD. Instead of using LB10Xes for peeling away the armour it uses LPLs in the torso. It uses a standard 315 engine which allows it to go over 86kph with speed tweak, enough to keep any sub 100kph mech in your sights for a long time.

Another option is this JM6-DD build which susbstitutes the 315 with a standard 300 engine and two heatsinks, and adds a Beagle Active Probe for quicker enemy mech information (allowing you to more quickly see what internals are showing on the enemy mech).

The hexaMG build can be very effective, especially if you can keep your mech in good shape for the first half of the match.

[Zordicron]

My DD, I ran 4x MG. then I put 2x UAC5, and 2 MPL. XL300, or 280, dont remember, but it wouldnt be hard to change to 2x ML and up the engine.

I know it seems like you should run a standard to use those MG. But thing is, if you are running at assault mech speeds, you wont get into MG range to often, and when you do, you will get wrecked so fast because you cant maneuver. Mine ran over 80kph, and the bigger engine makes you turn faster to boot. just strafe. Circle strafe, or egg shape strafe maybe if you want to call it that( running as tight a circle as you can just makes it easy to predict your movment)

UAC5 is good at longer range, and lighter then lbx by a good bit so you can put more ammo for them on.

Use the MG if you are in a brawl, but dont push forward into a brawl until there is something weakened down a good bit. by this I mean, the MG are not your focus. They are the finisher, or if you are in the close range anyway, they are no heat so blast way. Very important though just to remember that 4x MG isnt somthing you rush a fresh mech with.

The loadout works best played like a medium, hang out by somthing with more alpha, and provide support fire and then wreck it firepower when a enemy brawler comes in and starts taking dmg. Aim for anything without armor, even if you just go for arms some times, because 4 MG will melt it so fast that it becomes a moot issue about not killing the mech outright if that makes any sense. The lasers add dps and some pinpoint for when you run out of UAC5 ammo(it will happen when you get good at the loadout, you will see monster dmg games as a result) They also help with alpha dmg, 2xUAC5 and the MG and the 2 lasers isnt like ac40 dmg, but it isnt a snoozer either, and obviously half of your mini alpha is ready for a repeat very quickly.

All in all, the most important part of this is knowing when to show your true colors and when to just pretend to be a normal AC ridge shooting jager. It is an entertaining loadout.

[Naduk]

Dakkasaurus
this is how you do it guys
punch through armour at any range with ppc's
hang around your missile boats and eat lights for breakfast lunch and dinner
or push up with the big boys on the front line and dakka everything into little bits

Edited by Naduk, 20 February 2014 - 04:30 PM.

[Zeede]

Ruccus: Why does your build have CASE in torsos with no ammo in them?

[Ruccus]

Ah, didn't notice I still had the CASE in there (was fiddling with the build and at one point had more ammo and the BAP in the center torso). You can remove CASE if you don't have ammo in the side torsos.

I find 2 tons is borderline enough for 6 MGs (especially since you still have both lasers even if you run out of ammo)but three tons is better.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Ruccus, on 20 February 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:

You can remove CASE if you don't have ammo in the side torsos.

Not exactly. Arm and leg ammo explosions that are big enough (i.e. all of them) will transfer through the side torsos and hit the center unless you have CASE. With your ammo in the core of the 'mech though, yeah, that's a ton of extra weight for something else.

[Zeede]

I made some modifications, so here it is!

JM6-DD

[Ruccus]

Zeede, on 20 February 2014 - 08:11 PM, said:

I made some modifications, so here it is!

JM6-DD

I'm not a huge fan of dual ER PPCs as they are right now - they generate way too much heat. With your build I don't think you'll have a problem swapping the ER PPCs out for regular PPCs because at under 90m you've still got some decent damage with the LB10X and MGs. Here's the build with the ER PPCs swapped out for PPCs; the sustained DPS goes from 6.43 to 7.51.

Another option is this JM6-DD build. It has the same 30.4 point alpha as the above builds but ups the sustained dps to 8.73 thanks to using dual AC10s instead of PPCs. I dropped some armour in the legs and head to add a fifth ton of AC10 ammo, but if you think 43 points of leg armour is too little you can add a ton and drop down to four tons of AC10 ammo.

Also as a side point, if you haven't bought the XL285 engine yet then you might want to make sure to get an engine that can go in multiple different mechs in your stable; XL engines are expensive so if they can do double or triple duty in multiple mechs it can save you a lot of c-bills. I have an XL 180 that does double duty in my Locusts and Blackjack, an XL225 that has been in my Blackjack and Shadowhawks, and an XL260 and XL275 that swaps regularly between my Shadowhawks and Jaegermechs.