Ok I avoided posting on this thread for as long as I can stomach. Was pretty sure it was just going to die but since it didnt I suppose ill throw in my two cents. Also changing the quotes abit for cleaning up purposes and numbering.
longwang, on 03 February 2014 - 11:04 PM, said:
Why this is preferable:
1) - Falls in line with Lore.
The clans have always been vastly outnumbered, and for them, this is a sport. To see how much they can conquer, with as little expenditure as possible on their side. While 12 vs 12 games is cool, I don't think that is worth the nerfing of clan tech. As long as 12/12 is an option, that is the most important thing.
2) - Maintains the feel of the game.
The current proposals feel like it is destroying the game. It severely limits the customization of mechs, and waters down the value of the technology. Lets keep the value of the technology and find other ways to maintain balance. I really want to see how fast I can get the Timber Wolf up to. I am not good at aiming, so I need more armor and more speed to stay alive long enough to some good.
3) - Changing between technologies
I assume that one of the intentions is to have plays go back and forth between technologies. If the operation of the technology varies too widely, it makes it difficult to switch from one to the other.
4) - Many warriors need it
Let's be honest here, I am not that good. My average match score is probably around 30-40. If the technology was nerfed so that it could compete, then there wouldn't be any benefit to using it.
1) While falling in line with lore is all fine and dandy, Creating mechanics to push towards a well made and balanced shooter is far more important and more crucial to the success of a franchise. That said It falls more in line with true lore for the weapons to simply be in place then for them to do 'x' damage. None of the books really quantify the damage that the weapons did. That was all based off of the original board game. Wich even the group that created it admited was grossly unbalanced.
2) This statement worries me on more levels then I can express. Yes it waters down the technology BECAUSE the technology would break the game. No you dont need more armor or more speed because "you are not very good". You need to practice the game and work on your own skills. You do not need built in handicaps and a large machine to accomodate your own inequalities.
3) Im not even sure what your saying here.
4) AGAIN. see the response to number 2. That said you do understand you will be going up against those same mechs as well when its clan vs clan wich would occur all the time. So you would be at the same tech level anyways? Or are you just hoping to shoot fish in a barrel. These posts basically look like your just searching for a tech advantage because you want to be better then your opponent and destroy them more easily. This is a very bad viewpoint.
longwang, on 03 February 2014 - 11:04 PM, said:
Other ways to balance:
- Weight
This was kind of stated already, but just to clarify. It would be far more fun and more challenging to go up against a larger enemy force. So the more clan tech on a team, the lower the overall tonnage/mechs on that team.
While this sounds fun perhaps it would actually be a great detriment towards a competitive game and just creat further inequalities. Battletech was able to do this and do this (badly) because they had pilots that essentially had no true major differences in skills. It was negligible. Where as a game in which pilot skills can mean everything and where a light mech piloted well can take out an assault mech. The pilots are game breakers. Because of this its impossible to balance by weight or by amount on those terms.
longwang, on 03 February 2014 - 11:04 PM, said:
- Penalties for clanners
Another way to discourage the use of Clan Tech is by adding penalties for it's use. While the greater technology may yield better performance, it comes with a cost that maybe worth it depending on how well you do in battle. Some possible examples:
- Targeting:
It is well known that in lore, the clans can only target one mech at a time as part of their honor system. So this can be forced in play by doing things like once a mech is fired upon, you can not swtch targets until that mech is destroyed. For many, this would be a deal breaker on clan tech. That is good as it will encourage the use of IS tech.
- Honor system as part of loyalty
Loyalty points that phoenix mechs are supposed to give is so unclear and useless (currently) it is not even funny. But, the clanners could use this to their advantage. If they fire on another mech that they are not currently targeting, it will hurt their honor (loyalty) score.
- Repairs
I don't know if repairs will ever be reintroduced and I am kind of torn about whether or not I think that is a good idea. However, due to the nature of the technology, clans should definetely have repairs, and the costs should be high. That way, you will need to kick significant ass if you want the use of the technology to remain worth while.
- Fewer/no modules
Let's be honest, the clanners focus mostly on skill. Lets use this as a way to claim fewer benefits. Besides, the benefit of using clan tech is better tech! Let modules be a perk for IS mechs that helps give them an advantage.
- Lower rewards for destroying IS tech
Clanners VS IS is not a fair fight. So why should warriors choosing clan tech be given the same rewards as those chosing IS? You see this in any game. Take traditional FPSs. If I kill a boss/bigger enemy, I get more rewards.
- Traditional Economics
Supply vs Demand. Make this something that is adjustable. So that the more Clan tech is being used, the greater the demand, so the more expensive it becomes. Then, IS tech is much cheaper. It would be cool if this value floats with actual demand, but I could see how that would be difficult. At least fixed prices that are much much higher for clanners.
- No hero mechs
This probably eats into the over all financial model of the game. But seriously, the clanners only have one hero and that's Kerensky. In fact, there are probably more heros in the clanners given the way the fight for glory. Maybe there can be some other benefit like 'blood name' and whatever that would do, but leave the heros to the IS.
1. This game is a shooter. Its important to keep the basic pemises of a shooter intact. This would simply force players to alter there behavior. That said there would be no way to impliment this effectively into the game without forcing players to actively play a certain way. Making a gamer be FORCED to do something is not fun and will kill the community.
2. Gamers as a whole do not care about honor. Most players who play this game are very casual and will not be bothered by a dip in this since they will only want to login to kill some big stompy robots then logout again.
3. Raising repair costs would only further hamper newer players.
4. Currently the modules are mostly being used to similulate targeting computers from what I can tell. Either way they might have less modules anyways as it stands now. So *shrug*
5. Again this would further alienate the newer players.
6. and yet another thing that would alienate newer players. Honestly we should probly be lowering prices overall...
7. Besides the fact that the clans do indeed have heroes. There have been numerous mechs that were set aside as war memorials. Besides that fact Heroes are a way of making money for the corporation. They do need to feed there families you know.
longwang, on 03 February 2014 - 11:04 PM, said:
- Buffs for IS
If penealties discourage the use of one technology, then buffs would encourage the use of another. This is where benefits can be given to the IS. The IS has vast amount of space, and all of its facilities are close at hand. The clanners are far from their home and don't have production and resources readily available. As such, the IS would have the following advantages:
- Targeting:
Honor doesn't mean anything to them. So they shoot whoever the hell they want! Let's be honest, this is the biggest advantage that the IS has over the clans. It will ultimately fail if you try to make different technologies fight in the same way. This is essentially what your current plan is. Make clan tech comparable to IS so you can play clan tech like an IS warrior. They are not the same, they can't be played the same if the match will be even.
- Far cheaper repairs, if any
IS mechs are every where, and they are cheaper/free. Let this be a reason to use them over clan tech. This means that you can advance through the ranks quicker, or change chasis more easily, upgrade, etc.
- More and greater variety of modules
This would be a really cool thing that would give IS mechs a much greater flexibility. It would also level the playing field. Not all the modules need to be available to the clanners. Especially things like Artillery and Airstrikes.
- Greater rewards for destroying clan tech
This is the best way. If you destroy an incredibly expensive component and get a 30% boost with your hero mech, that means major cash money. Especially when the cost to repair your mech is cheap/free. It means fast way to earn $$.
- Heros, Champions, and economics
See these points above. Save these things for the IS. Gives a strong reason to use IS tech.
1. This is how a shooter should be played. This premise is based off a change to the clanners wich would force people to play in a way that is unfullfilling as a shooting gamer.
2. In reality prices should be cheaper in general and things should not be implimented that will discourage newer players. That said, This would do nothing for the people that put RL money into the game regardless.
3. Frankly I think all around there should be more modules implimented, for both sides of it. They add a strong degree of customizability for what individual pilots want.
4. See Above.
5. Your stating things already put in place as reasons for there being balance... thats.. kinda... ya... c.c,,,,,,
longwang, on 03 February 2014 - 11:04 PM, said:
- IS Omni mechs
The biggest reason that the current proposals for clan tech don't work is that when translated into IS omni mechs, they get a significant disadvantage. Why switch out one armfor another on a IS mech? Keep omni omni... any sized engine (with in reason, like currently done), any weapon any where there is a mount. This doesn't mean that you can stuff a bazillion lasers into one arm. Maybe just 2-3. Maybe if using ballistics, you can use fewer weapons in an area (bulkier) than using energy. Either way, the current proposals = poor IS omnis later.
The over all goal is to point out that there are other options. Nerfing the tech doesn't have to be. While I don't know for certain, it is my belief that players would agree.
Further more, in its current state, MWO is not a game. It is a simulator that allows us to shoot mechs. There is nothing to strive for, nothing to achieve, just walk and shoot. It would be far better to put effort into developing a meaningful game, like the one that has been promised since the beginning, but not delivered. This way, the purpose of a hero mech with 30% boost, or loyalty points actually mean something.
While I do gripe, I am over all satysfied with what has been done. I really hope that you were being honest in the dev Q&A video when you said you read these things, and take it to heart. The fans really care about these things, and do agree with the intentions. Let's work together on designing the implementation.
Actually it kinda opens up the door more so for the inner sphere and makes it easier. They can simply impliment quasi clan tech more simply and easily this way ina very balanced format later on. This is a good thing that will continue to keep the game balanced.
I think overall you need to understand PGI is actually doing a very smart and very good thing for the health of the game by doing this. And that is what should be primary.
4
... they'll probably just ghost heat pwn them or something.
).
