78 replies to this topic

[Varent]

Primetimex, on 04 February 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

OK, so champion mechs, so called mechs already outfitted with optimised configurations. Sounds good right? Wrong.

Just buying a Champ Mech for MCs only makes PGI richer, it does not make a player any better in any sense of the word.

As quoted by Melifluer in the "Feature Suggestions" thread for UI 2.0:
"I DONT LIKE OR WANT CHAMPION MECHS. i will never buy one ever nor do i even care to see them.

also this does just look like a way to shove (scrap) in my face to buy, again its so patently offensive that this game is just some cash grab for you guys and not a good game that people PAID to have."

In most matches I've had where there are Champion Mechs, it results in 80-90% losses most of the time. One in a Champion HIghlander even got wasted within 2 seconds of the game starting.

PGI, just do us a favour, get rid of the MW license, get someone else to take over and do it justice.

Just buying MCs and buying so called champ mechs don't teach new players anything. If at all it dumbs down the game - you don't learn what the chassis role is, the nuances, its weapon configs, equipment configs, engine configs etc, what works well and what doesn't and how does it all fit in on how you can best play the game without sucking hard.

Just sick and tired seeing © mechs in the game, essentially there as "handicap" so that if you have 4 ©s, it's almost like hard mode - handicap minus 4 mechs in the match and if they're in assault ©s, well it's even
worse.

So do us all a favour, go thru the grind, learn the basics, build your mech from zip like the rest of us, and most of all, ignore the weekly/daily sales and don't feed the machine.

Stock champion builds.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a2b70f61ebcdc52

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c6933fb3c8b6584

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f253ed2f5c96982

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e8bda7234e2132b

These are all pretty decent variants.

Not sure why you are complaining so much.

Edited by Varent, 05 February 2014 - 02:36 PM.

[Mercules]

Deathlike, on 05 February 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

Tell me how these things couldn't have had a tutorial?

A good and full tutorial will actually utilize the weapons as is. A lot Has changed over the last year for example Ghost Heat which has changed how many weapons operate. Any tutorial written will cover IS mechs but not Clan mechs which will build differently. The game is still in flux and about to add a large number of weapons when the Clans hit.

What you are talking about is so generic it shouldn't even need a tutorial.

Deathlike, on 05 February 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

It makes selling/marketing your game a whole lot easier.

It's a niche game that would do well to remember it is a niche game and stop trying to cater to people who won't like it anyway. DayZ is having the same identity crisis trying to appeal to a large number of people and forgetting about the core players who would actually play and support it. Instead it may just move towards something middle ground that appeals to no one.

[Sephlock]

Primetimex, on 04 February 2014 - 07:54 PM, said:

Are you in one of those Champion mechs too? I'm sick and tired of getting stomped 12-1 just because so called "Champs" got wasted ASAP without doing even close to 100 damage (in an assault no less).

Trial mechs show up just as often and are even worse.

[Blurry]

Sandpit, on 04 February 2014 - 07:52 PM, said:

Aren't you just a ball of sunshine

sense tingling

I'll give you a more "robust" response when this thread gets where it belongs

That is 100% what is wrong with the game and the community.
Hopefully soon things will be looked after.

If and when this community ever grows up there could be something but who am I kidding all you want to do is throw crap all day right?

Edited by Blurry, 05 February 2014 - 03:15 PM.

[svidangel]

I have to say I agree with other people who say the champion trial mechs are pretty good right now, at least compared to beta when stock mechs were the norm.

This would have been difficult in a stock mech, but champion mechs make it damn easy. (alt acct, only 7 games, losses on conquest, good players could do better etc etc.)

[Helmer]

Seems like this is less about Champion 'mechs and more about newer players being forced to play vastly experienced players with superior 'mechs, and premades.

As mentioned by others the need for more tutorials, a separate pool for newer players, mentoring systems, etc are more the issue than the 'mechs themselves.



Cheers.

[Warblood]

I don't see the issue here...

trial(champ) mech > stock mechs for new players...
custom stock mech > trial(champ) mech...
custom champ mech = to any other custom mech.

soo.... whats the issue? u don't want trial mechs(champs) in your games?
what if someone wants to play one for shizz'n'giggles and they're a high elo player? they should b aloud to drop in any mech they want in to any match as long as they are in there elo bracket.

the only reason champ mechs die fast is cause everyone thinks its a new player an focus on it... right?
when most ppl see a champ they think... trial mech = new player = easy kill...
this can be easily proven as most of the comments in this post refer to the champion mechs as trial, an trials to new players.

[Deathlike]

Mercules, on 05 February 2014 - 03:07 PM, said:

A good and full tutorial will actually utilize the weapons as is. A lot Has changed over the last year for example Ghost Heat which has changed how many weapons operate. Any tutorial written will cover IS mechs but not Clan mechs which will build differently. The game is still in flux and about to add a large number of weapons when the Clans hit.

What you are talking about is so generic it shouldn't even need a tutorial.

TBH, they built this game in the general spirit that any mech can equip with virtually any weapon (within reason) into the hardpoints. Whether everyone agrees with that decision is another matter, but when I keep seeing people continually firing LRMs < 180m and PPCs < 90m... frustration builds... not just for me (seeing the disaster happen), but the player for wondering "why isn't this working?"

Quote

It's a niche game that would do well to remember it is a niche game and stop trying to cater to people who won't like it anyway. DayZ is having the same identity crisis trying to appeal to a large number of people and forgetting about the core players who would actually play and support it. Instead it may just move towards something middle ground that appeals to no one.

I'm not saying we need to cater to everyone, but in any effort to broaden the game (especially, since we got 3PV, and arm lock) to even people that likes the niche, you still have to keep them around. Otherwise, there's no growth for this game... whether you realize this or not. Growing the game takes effort, not just money. To make it friendly, you have to do more than "just one tutorial"... we have yet to get the promised "try the mech out before you buy option". Do you like newbies getting stuck in their first mech, having made a terrible purchase of something they have no idea how it would work for them?

Once you spent your money, and stop liking the product, there is no further cash flow. This is not just a simple "business sense", but a reality sense. You can't always cater to the newbies either, but you can't just make the learning curve better/easier without producing the required tutorials (and for a MW game, it's always been like that in the series). This literally cannot be ignored.

People need to get it over their heads that for the newbie, the player experience isn't quite where it needs to be. To just say L2P sounds insulting sometimes, if not outright ignorant. If we don't educate the newbies that are willing to learn (and not those that don't/won't ever get it), then what is the point of the game... what about the community?

As much as it sounds like a whine, but it's actually a plea. The little things that make up a game and its community defines its success. Categorically ignoring these issues will in turn eventually come back to bite in a bad way. I'm not saying we should do EVERYTHING (I guess we haven't reached this point yet, but that's not up to me), but you have to make a REASONABLE EFFORT to ensure the success of the game. Otherwise, committing to just sales and slow progress... well, there's nothing to look forward to. Yes, enjoy CW someday, while the population won't magically grow (it'll get some people out of hibernation), but that's just not going to get any influx of new players because they'll get frustrated before they even get a shot of playing it.

There's more to a game than just a niche playerbase... it still has to grow with new players.

[BillyM]

Helmer, on 05 February 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

Seems like this is less about Champion 'mechs and more about newer players being forced to play vastly experienced players with superior 'mechs, and premades.

As mentioned by others the need for more tutorials, a separate pool for newer players, mentoring systems, etc are more the issue than the 'mechs themselves.



Cheers.

...and PGI continuing to expand acceptable elo ranges so the ninnies can continue to run their metabuilds vs challenging themselves.

Trial dragon, 6 kills, near-900 dmg..
http://s9.postimg.or...ig34v/image.jpg

--billyM

Edited by BillyM, 05 February 2014 - 06:25 PM.

[Svidro]

Helmer, on 05 February 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

Seems like this is less about Champion 'mechs and more about newer players being forced to play vastly experienced players with superior 'mechs, and premades.

As mentioned by others the need for more tutorials, a separate pool for newer players, mentoring systems, etc are more the issue than the 'mechs themselves.



Cheers.

Perhaps the trial mechs should be (T) then instead of (C) to alleviate some of the confusion.

[Noesis]

I see the Champion Mechs being useful to new players as they then have access to confident builds from the get go should they wish to invest in them. If not then the regular stock variants are still available to players for free to use. Overall though it is simply nice to see player "options" available.

With them being available as trial Mechs also gives new players coming to the game a more confident platform for them to initially experience MWO in, as opposed to committing to any stock Mechs that won't be on a par with more experienced players, or until they might establish which direction or roles they want to explore initially before then investing into infrastructure. So the trial Mechs very much helping to provide a test drive experience here.

When you then also consider that players who have been around for a long time who have amassed a significant amount of XP, CBills and infrastructure and will have established Master Mechs with modules it is at least reasonable for MWO to provide them with something that has a fighting chance in theory. Even though of course it doesn't take too long to at least establish one chassis as being fighting effective in relatively little time in the scheme of things and when there is the cadet bonus to do so.

However, I also believe a lot more could be done to help the new player experience also, both for awareness and retention. More in game tutorials (in the pipe line) of course would help however to establish basic piloting concepts to newer players.

The idea of being able to use private matches for whatever flexible training purposes will also be an welcomed additional tool to support these interests also.

---

Some here will remember the earlier times of MWO when in the early days before the formulation of bigger groups pilots would be spending significant time on the Comstar TS servers discussing with others about the game and it was a great area of the community that was thriving with discussion and advice. Banter and other jovial discussion also. However, more importantly back then is that there was a kind of academy supported by players that had been identified to help support newer players as they join the MWO player base. (Some of those individuals are still supporting these interests on the new player forums still).

I kind of wish or would hope that this idea that was in some way lost could be re-invigorated and perhaps help supported by PGI/IGP so that in principal an optional new player academy can be re-established for that very benefit. If it then had optional structured formats and material on the forum to help explain concepts and piloting, then it would go a long way to helping to support new players.

At the same time however it has to be recognised that large organised groups can also provide new players with similar support in helping to provide education in becoming a better pilot so these opportunities would also need to be encouraged also. As ideally it would be nice to think that players would join some "presence" as per canon to identify themselves in the BT universe at some time. Lone wolf sites can help new players also and I do identify that they are a part of lore, the bounty hunter being one mysterious lone wolf from canon (though some thoughts as to Wolf Dragoon affiliation are noted), but in my experience wont really offer the more immersive qualities as being associated with Merc or House organisations. Of course this depends on the player and organisation of course as to best fit given at the same time any RL concerns and play styles etc.

---

What I would like to see though (in addition to better in game tools) is this academy re-established, promoted and supported by PGI/IGP (even if only advice and guidance for issues) with dedicated player staff members that have impartial and objective interests of helping newer pilots review the MWO experience and help prepare them better for their career as a Mech Pilot if they choose to do so. It would also provide that initial exposure to the idea of a community and social game and also helping to promote voice comms as a beneficial method of both enjoying the game and improving teamwork.

[Sandpit]

Blurry, on 05 February 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

That is 100% what is wrong with the game and the community.
Hopefully soon things will be looked after.

If and when this community ever grows up there could be something but who am I kidding all you want to do is throw crap all day right?

How many ideas and suggestions have YOU contributed?
How many of your threads have led to anything being changed?
How many guides have YOU written?
How many times have you linked and posted threads to give players info they're asking for?
How many tweets have you sent to the DEVs asking for info or giving feedback and suggestions?
How many new players have YOU helped along when entering this game?
I'm willing to bet it's a LOT less than the half of what I have. Before you jump on the "I hate Sandpit" bandwagon maybe you should look through my post history. Maybe you should have a better understanding of someone before you assume all they do is troll bad posts, misinformation, and outright lies.

[Sandpit]

Champion mechs were a great step for the new player experience. We complained about stock trials from almost day 1 and they listened. The Champion mechs are NOT bad mechs at all. They're actually pretty good. I love the Stalker we currently have.

Now all they need to do is add in a training academy queue, keep new players in their own queue and let some vets drop with them in trials and offer advice. From there you have a good solid foundation for new players to be successful.

[StoneRhino]

Who cares. If they want to spend money let them spend their money. As long as this game does not go down the road of world of tanks where paying cash equals winning, its fine with me. If noobs want to sink money into the game thats fine with me. If anything it gives them a slightly better chance of doing 100 damage then if they had a stock mech or just using the random trial mechs.

[StoneRhino]

svidangel, on 05 February 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

I have to say I agree with other people who say the champion trial mechs are pretty good right now, at least compared to beta when stock mechs were the norm.

This would have been difficult in a stock mech, but champion mechs make it damn easy. (alt acct, only 7 games, losses on conquest, good players could do better etc etc.)

That image is complete nonsense. It represents nothing more then someone playing on an alt account. The alt account clearly has few games, meaning the ELO is going to put it into games with truely new players. So you stomped on some grapes and declared yourself a badass, it means nothing. Most of those players are probably still getting used to their keybindings and trying to figure out how to talk to their team. A player that is average, but has a lot more experience will be able to significantly more damage then normal if he or she was playing against truely new players.

You could have taken any stock mech and done a decent amount of damage against a bunch of new players. A better player would have done even more damage then they normally do. It is like climbing into the ring against a toddler, you are most likely going to beat the heck out of the toddler in a boxing match even if you don't know what you are doing in comparison to a trained boxer of the same height and weight.

[DarthPeanut]

Probably just mostly new players using the trial mechs.

Honestly... if we are talking about new players who just dove in and bought a mech with MC instead of learning/ establishing the basic fundamentals of the game, why should anyone or anything but that person be concerned with their decision/ purchase. I know I am not, it is their money to spend.

They will quickly learn that you cannot subvert the skill/ understanding required in this game achieved through actual game play and a little reading. Also that they cannot just buy a win.

I would be surprised if really that many new players dump a bunch of cash on MC right off. Just seems common sense to me to have at least a basic understanding of something before attempting it... especially if it is going to involve money.

While I do not like the price of some of the MC required purchase items (seems a little steep at times), I did pickup my first hero mech on sale and glad I did. I like the economic bonus from it.

Edited by DarthPeanut, 07 February 2014 - 08:24 AM.

[Redshift2k5]

Champion mechs make great trial mechs .

They're just lame as paid content... But if you don't like them, don't buy them.

[C E Dwyer]

so Op you want new player to use even worse built mechs than champions do even less damage, and quit.

pointing out that not all champions are trial mechs is beyond your reasoning, ot that a hero mech is also a favoured way of starting this game, and its not all champions that fail, there are plenty more that fail badly that don't have a C tag..

[Daggett]

Primetimex, on 04 February 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

Just buying MCs and buying so called champ mechs don't teach new players anything. If at all it dumbs down the game - you don't learn what the chassis role is, the nuances, its weapon configs, equipment configs, engine configs etc, what works well and what doesn't and how does it all fit in on how you can best play the game without sucking hard.

Just sick and tired seeing © mechs in the game, essentially there as "handicap" so that if you have 4 ©s, it's almost like hard mode - handicap minus 4 mechs in the match and if they're in assault ©s, well it's even
worse.

PGI does many mistakes but the champion mechs were none of them.
They are a great upgrade to the old inferior stock trial-mechs and actually make newbies somewhat useful in the game and get a far better hint on which weight-class/playstyle they may prefer.

Your real problem are not the champions, it's the matchmaking which matches newbies together with veterans.
If all newbies would be matched in a separate queue you would see way less champion-mechs in your games. And the few which are left are probably the ones who are driven well enough to be useful to your team.

Primetimex, on 04 February 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

Just buying MCs and buying so called champ mechs don't teach new players anything. If at all it dumbs down the game - you don't learn what the chassis role is, the nuances, its weapon configs, equipment configs, engine configs etc, what works well and what doesn't and how does it all fit in on how you can best play the game without sucking hard.

I really don't get this argument. Do you really think anyone would buy such a mech and play it exclusively for a long time without being exited to configure their own mech with all the possibilities the mechlab presents? At some point in the game almost any player WANTS to configure their own mech. And if some ppl are not mechlab-ready yet and prefer to stick to trials/champions than it's TOTALLY OK and no one has the right to judge here.

Primetimex, on 04 February 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

So do us all a favour, go thru the grind, learn the basics, build your mech from zip like the rest of us, and most of all, ignore the weekly/daily sales and don't feed the machine.

You know what happens to machines which are not fed? They die. Someone needs to feed the machine for the sake of all free players. It's okay if you decide that the game is not worth to be supported by YOU anymore but it's ignorant to suggest everyone to do the same just because YOU are not satisfied.