18 replies to this topic

[Nikkoru]

This is not a rant, this is a serious question, so please treat it as such.

So, I kept track of my games this morning. I played all 12 games in my 5M Stalker, which you can see here:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...85f7081b144e277

I took screenshots and kept track of my stats, and I am actually really proud of my preformance. In all but one of the games, I feel like I preformed very well, averaging 642 damage per game, and averaging 2 kills and 3 assists. The highest was 5 kills and 1 assist, the lowest was 1 kill 2 assists. Highest damage was 840, lowest damage was 320. In 7 of the twelve games, I was in the top three players from either side in both damage and kills, and in 10 of the 12 games, I was the top player in both damage and kills on my team.

Here's the thing. I lost all twelve of those games, and badly at that. Not a single game was even close. Most were 12-6, the closest match was 7-12, the worst was 4-12.

I'm trying not to sound elitist, but I can't think of a nice way to say it, so I'll just say it. I was extremely dissapointed with the preformance of the teams I was placed on, and that is what lead me to my question:

If the pairing was completely random, then the law of statistics would indicate that of the 12 games I played this morning, I should have been randomly placed on the winning team roughly half the time, but instead I was placed on the losing team 100% of the time.

So, my question is this: Am I doing something wrong? Is my ELO too high or too low? Am I being penalized by matchmaker by taking an assult mech instead of something lighter? Am I pugging against premades and I just don't realize it? Is there a reason I am being placed on the losing team so much more often than the winning team? Is this simply a statistical anomoly, or most importantly, is there something I can do about it?

Thank you for your time. Serious answers only please.

[Modo44]

The matchmaker is pretty bad, as admitted by PGI. It favors groups to the point of skewing team composition, and it builds teams (finds 12 players of similar skill) instead of matches (looking for 24 players of similar skill). It averages team skill, so the better you are, the more random the people you get to (try to) carry. Seriously.

To counter some of those issues, play around evening US time -- when most players are active -- and find a group. There is not much more you can do.

Edited by Modo44, 05 February 2014 - 09:12 AM.

[Rebas Kradd]

There are so many factors in play in this matter that blaming the matchmaker is rather fruitless in my view. ELO cannot stop your teammates from doing stupid things, being uncoordinated, dropping against troll premades, experiencing disconnects, or just being caught out of position. All things which you touched on.

And the nature of a game with big, slow robots is that it's sensitive to quick swings of fortune. One wrong move and you pay for it dearly, because you can't hop back into cover. And once a team is down by a couple of mechs, the rout is on. The other side has fewer targets to shoot at, and a comeback will be difficult.

Tonnage isn't a factor for me. If it were tonnage causing the stomps, then all the matches which ARE evenly matched by tonnage should be more balanced generally. But I still experience tons of stomps in them. This is a simple logical test that nobody really seems to follow.

There are a few things you can do to even the odds and assist your team. I recommend visiting the link in my signature for a few of them. In general, though, pugging is no man's land, and that's often the case in every shooter. Best solution is to find a good group of friends to play with.

[IraqiWalker]

The mech choice does impact your placement a bit mechanically speaking, I believe. (Keep in mind this is all theory crafting as not much has been mentioned about this by the devs)

On the other hand, the way the MM works is that it will put with players with relatively close elo scores, and usually both teams have similar elo scores. The problem is when the match maker takes longer than normal, as then it expands the search pool. That leads to situations where you will end up in a team with some seriously low rank players, because some high rank players joined you as well. Technically that should even out, but this is a numbers game, and 2 good players can't always compensate for 4 not as good players.

The MM does favor groups also, but that is going to get fixed soon I think. I would honestly recommend finding a group to play with. There are loads of public servers open for everyone. I play on the Davion server most of my time, however this link

Spoiler

http://mwomercs.com/...e-chat-servers/

should have a list of all servers for teamspeak. That way you can drop into one, and jump with a group, or if you have your own, then stick with them, whenever possible. The game changes dynamics when you are dropping as part of a lance.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 05 February 2014 - 09:17 AM.

[Ridersofdoom]

ELO measures the performance of the TEAM (if you won or lost at the end of the game), that is the reason this game seems like it always throw the dice, sometimes if you're a superMWpug you can change and influence the score.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Suggest you try leading your team some in chat. Hopefully enough of your team will read it and comply. Even if it's just a general plan at the start of the match and nothing more (though chatting when able is great)

[Redshift2k5]

In regards to matchmaking, there is nothing you can do wrong. citing the law of statistics, though, does not mean you should win half of your matches every day or every play session. That is too small of a sample size, and too few matches for the Elo system to have even made any significant adjustment to how you are weighted in the matchmaker. (in theory if you were in the low Elo team for all 12 matches, and lost all 12 matches, then your elo would not even adjust- you have to lose when you are the 'predicted winner' to drop your elo)

If you want to talk statistics, you'd need to look at every match, not just the matches for a day. The matchmaker is not going to look at your loss streak and give you a win, you have to earn those wins. Elo adjustments can bring you down to a more equitable level, but that takes time.

You can keep blaming the matchmaker, or you can pick yourself up by the bootstraps and improve your game. Improve your teamwork, improve your mech build. An LRM boat can be frustrating without team support, and you don't even have a TAG to pierce ECM. This is a mech build that thrives on teamwork and communication, and sometimes a pug drop will mean nobody on the team is equipped (or willing, or capable) to be your target spotter.

• Try different mech builds (try a TAG! Try direct fire instead of LRM, etc)
  
• Try playing with teammates via VOIP
  
• Practice
  
• Don't cite law of statistics

Edited by Redshift2k5, 05 February 2014 - 09:33 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

TheCaptainJZ, on 05 February 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

Suggest you try leading your team some in chat. Hopefully enough of your team will read it and comply. Even if it's just a general plan at the start of the match and nothing more (though chatting when able is great)

THIS,

It has turned many matches for me. Also, reminding people that they can lock on their targets. That can swing a desperate brawl as well. Don't always shout commands in CAPSLOCKRAEG mode, people sometimes ignore it.

Also, the general rule of thumb is to keep the herd together as much as possible. The more the group sticks together the better their chance of success is in PuGs. Unless they're facing a ten mech line with LB10Xs, then you're just scrapped.

[Ertur]

The Matchmaker is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very thread. You can see it when you look out your cockpit or when you switch on your battle map. You can feel it when you go to River City… when you go to Alpine Peaks… when you buy your MC. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth. What truth? That you are a slave. Like everyone else you were born into bondage. Born into a prison that you cannot smell or taste or touch. A prison for your MECHS. [pause] Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matchmaker is. You have to see it for yourself.

[SniperCon]

I have a couple thoughts.

If you typically do very using direct fire assaults, say a Victor. Now you drop in an LRM assault. You still do very well, but are not able to affect the outcome the same way you would in your Victor. Specifically, enemies stay alive 5-10 seconds longer due to LRM travel time and damage spreading. 5-10 seconds times 12 bad guys = 4 dead teammates; the difference between a win and a loss.

If you typically do very well in a pre-made, and now drop solo for a while. You still do very well, but are not able to affect the outcome the same way. Specifically, your excellent battle sense is not being shared with 3 other teammates and you are stuck in the critical moment without additional backup. The difference between a win and a loss.

The common thread is that if the parameters change it can take ELO some time to compensate. There's also bad luck, and 12 games is small enough to defy statistics.

[Nikkoru]

Redshift2k5, on 05 February 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

citing the law of statistics, though, does not mean you should win half of your matches every day or every play session. That is too small of a sample size

I think you may have misunderstood. I cited statistics and the law of averages to point out that since the matchmaker is producing such skewed results, that I might benefit from understanding it better and learning how to "game" it, for lack of a better term. At no point did I mean to indicate that I somehow deserve to win half my games.

Redshift2k5, on 05 February 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

You can keep blaming the matchmaker

I am not blaming matchmaker, I am trying to understand how it works so I can, if possible, improve the quality of players I am placed with.

Redshift2k5, on 05 February 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

An LRM boat can be frustrating without team support, and you don't even have a TAG to pierce ECM. This is a mech build that thrives on teamwork and communication, and sometimes a pug drop will mean nobody on the team is equipped (or willing, or capable) to be your target spotter.

My stalker is not strictly an LRM boat, at least that is not the way I play it. I play it as a multi-range brawler. And, like I said, I am not having trouble with my performance. I am doing just fine. In fact I am outperforming almost everyone I am placed alongside. It is my teammates that are my concern, or at least, the system that put me with them.

[100mile]

So I feel your's and everyone else's pain....And all I can do is reinforce some of what's already been said. I try and communicate with the other pugs in match thru text chat to set up a meet point or suggest a strategy...Example: Terra Therma...I like to go center and hold the ramps against the enemy...so I suggest that. Sometimes it works sometimes it don't....The match maker is nothing more than a way to get Mech's in match together...sometimes it's unfair and puts you in a bad position...Oh well...Gotta adjust and communicate and do what you can...just like in RL when things aren't set up fair or in your favor...

[Redshift2k5]

I'm sorry, I think I needed a up of coffee when I wrote that.

Nikkoru, on 05 February 2014 - 09:53 AM, said:

My stalker is not strictly an LRM boat, at least that is not the way I play it. I play it as a multi-range brawler. And, like I said, I am not having trouble with my performance. I am doing just fine. In fact I am outperforming almost everyone I am placed alongside. It is my teammates that are my concern, or at least, the system that put me with them.

If you're not joining with friends into a 2-4 man group, there is nothing you can do you improve your teammates. The Elo system is pretty broad and pulls in players from a wide range of Elo scores, and does the same thing to the enemy team.

If your personal performance is well, then maybe it's teamwork skills you need to work on. Try to corral the pugs into some semblance of order, open the line of communication. If one person is collecting damage and kills but not working cohesively, then the team as a whole will struggle with focus-fire and defensive/offensive maneuvers.

[SnowdogJJJ]

I have had days (bad ones admittedly) where I lost (I think my record is 11) many games in a row. It can be frustrating but it happens.

Here is a thought that I run by (pilot), don't be afraid of dying.. I don't mean be dumb ass and run out into the middle of the other team but don't run and hide either. From my understanding ELO is based on won/lose and death, The more you lose and/or die the lower your Elo will be, so the more fun you can have with less skilled teams (killin them with impunity is a blast). If my team loses more than 4 players I will (many times) brawl to the death and take as many with me as I can, getting the pain of a slow death over with so I can move on to another match. This may not be the best way to play but it works for me. I used to keep 4 mechs ready to ROCK but with the new interface I have no idea where the mechs are anymore in the jumble of mettle that PGI calls the mech lab. With a little luck they will sort this out (mech lab) sooner rather than later but that is for another thread. Good luck and if your not having fun do something else life is to short

[Nikkoru]

That is a very insteresting concept, and one that I hadn't considered before. Since the rules don't allow you to simply leave a game with bad teammates (I mean, you can, but you risk being banned), if you are on a team that is obviously poor, perhaps it is better to simply kamakazi and get onto the next match rather than waste your time on a team that isn't worth fighting for...

Hmmm, I'll have to think about that one.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Many people here don't understand how these fights work out. Once the enemy team has a numerical or tactical advantage, it's generally over.


All it takes is one or more teammates to wander off, get murdered and that can snowball. Or the enemy team gets the high ground, flanks etc. All of a sudden, it's suddenly 12-8, your team is panicking and offering no effective resistance.

Look at it this way. If you were perfectly matched against the enemy team, Elo-wise, and they pulled off a brilliant tactical move and stomped your team, is that the MM's fault? Would it look any different from the screen shots you posted?

Or one of your guys is having a bad day, turned left instead of right and got swarmed by lights? Then his buddy who was trying to help gets swarmed. Then they Tag you for their LRM boats.....is that the MM's fault?


One last thought. Maybe you have a low Elo in Assault mechs? Are you new to that weight class? If so then you have the same Elo as every new player until you get some more battles under your belt....

[Nikkoru]

Nick Makiaveli, on 05 February 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

One last thought. Maybe you have a low Elo in Assault mechs? Are you new to that weight class? If so then you have the same Elo as every new player until you get some more battles under your belt....

Interesting. I thought each player has a single ELO regardless of what mech they were in. Does each player have a different ELO for each weight type? Or chassis? Or individual mech? How does it actually work?

[Modo44]

Elo (it is not an acronym) is different for every mech weight class. Until/unless you get equally good with all mechs, changing to a different weight class can pair you with players of different skill.

[Nikkoru]

Modo44, on 05 February 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

Elo (it is not an acronym) is different for every mech weight class. Until/unless you get equally good with all mechs, changing to a different weight class can pair you with players of different skill.

So perhaps part of my problem is that my assault ELO is vastly different than my light ELO.