1026 replies to this topic

[GrimlockONE]

Siriothrax, on 05 February 2014 - 07:31 PM, said:

What are you talking about? Pepe is the best Highlander pilot in SJR.

Please, dont be so modest Siri. We all know that you are the best Highlander pilot in SJR.

[Rebas Kradd]

YueFei, on 05 February 2014 - 07:22 PM, said:

Second Point: instant pin-point convergence. It's not a matter of weaponry being overpowered. Nobody complains about a single PPC being too devastating. Nobody complains about a single AC20 being too much to take. It's the way you can get an entire stack of weaponry to strike the same spot, which breaks TT's damage/armor model, that is killing mechs dead fast. If the question is a matter of risk/reward, then the greater the risk, the greater the reward. If you only expose yourself for a brief period of time, how much damage output potential should you be capable of? Homeless Bill's solution would've resolved this neatly: you can still fire everything, but without pin-point convergence. Or you can fire smaller groupings of weaponry, spaced out over time, with pinpoint convergence. Risk vs Reward.

You cannot remove pinpoint convergence without also removing the ability to target specific components on a mech.

[YueFei]

GrimlockONE, on 05 February 2014 - 07:15 PM, said:

The main problem revolving around MWO is the presence of two groups. We have both those that play for fun, generally table top purist, and those that play for competition, the group constantly pushing meta. Separate these two groups and give two ques, stock and unlimited. If you want to play with fully customized mechs then you should expect to see those using everything from LRM boats to PPC/UAC5, whatever combo you like, mechs.

Very competitive and successful players will use what works, but if a game is super shallow and there's really only a narrow set of paths to victory, they will quickly realize the game lacks depth and get bored.

This is what players like Ryan Steel are saying (yet somehow some folks have critical reading comprehension failures and don't get it). The top players are going to use the best tools. It's the job of the game's designers to make sure that every tool has strengths and weaknesses relative to other tools in the game.

You don't make Rock/Paper/Scissors where Rock beats both Paper and Scissors. Then every competitive player will always play Rock every single time, all day every single day.

If we want to design MWO around a triangle of Brawler / Sniper / Indirect Fire, then you can't make it so that one of these fighting styles dominates the other two. The key to balance is to make sure there are viable counters to any particular tactic. It doesn't matter how you arrange it, as long as you have at least 3 basic strategies and they can circularly counter one another. A simple example design goal would be:
Sniper > Brawler > Indirect Fire > Sniper

Now the game is much easier to balance. You don't have to struggle with balancing between Sniping vs Brawling, for instance, because that's difficult and tricky to balance perfectly against each other. Now teams will feature elements of all 3 and attempt to play their strengths against the enemy's weaknesses.

[ThePieMaker]

Wait...I was under the impression I was the best Highlander pilot of all time...

[Sandpit]

For those jumping up and down complaining that they're now not giving enough info...

So we were sitting in the office today brainstorming over the next focal point we need to look at and make some balance changes to. After a few ideas were kicked around we decided to take a look at JJs

Heaven forbid someone use a little levity when passing that information along

For months now players have complained there isn't any communication. NOW we have players complaining that they ARE communicating more. smh

[Glory in the Highest]

Look what you did, kaffe. Our carefully constructed circle of "You're the best, Jagbro!" "NO, YOU'RE the best, Jagbro!" has now crumbled into confusion and suspicion.

THANKS A LOT.

[GrimlockONE]

My solution is to turn this into a turn based online shooter, imagine Fallout 3 or Vegas VATS system with mechs and more explosions. Problems solved, you're welcome.

[YueFei]

Rebas Kradd, on 05 February 2014 - 07:32 PM, said:

You cannot remove pinpoint convergence without also removing the ability to target specific components on a mech.

You place a limit on how big a stack of weaponry you can put on the same panel in the same instant. Which isn't the same as removing the ability to precision target a specific component with a smaller stack of weaponry. See Homeless Bill's solution for complete information.

[kaffeangst]

Pepe isn't SJR! We discussed this on Jager's stream, if he did triple-digit damage, I would take him into the House of Lords. He's signed on with us!

LORD PEPE
ggclose™

^ But yeah... best Highlander pilot for sure.

[Mister Blastman]

Soooo... nerf another mech instead of trying to fix the core gameplay mechanics?

Yeah.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 05 February 2014 - 07:39 PM.

[FactorlanP]

Rouken, on 05 February 2014 - 07:09 PM, said:

Maybe you're reading it differently than I am. Here is what I got from it.

JJs are being examined.
Highlanders are not being singled out (like he said, other mechs are being looked at as well).

My point is that if it were ONLY jump jets being examined, there would be no reason to say that other Mechs are on the firing line. We would all know that any jump jet capable mech is in for a change. But no, he mentioned jump jets and then made a point of saying that other mechs are being looked at...

I'm perfectly prepared to be wrong, but I think you all are reading something in to what Paul said which may not be what he means.

[ICEFANG13]

It doesn't matter who the best Highlander is, a Jenner will always be right behind it.

[Sandpit]

Mister Blastman, on 05 February 2014 - 07:38 PM, said:

Soooo... nerf another mech instead of trying to fix the core gameplay mechanics?

Yeah.

Maybe read before ranting next time? He was talking about JJs and just used the Highlander as an example. At least read before you post nonsensical ranting....

[MavRCK]

ThePieMaker, on 05 February 2014 - 07:33 PM, said:

Wait...I was under the impression I was the best Highlander pilot of all time...

You guys are all crazy.

I have the most DFAs in a highlander out of everyone.. that makes me the STOMPING BEST HIGHLANDER PILOT OF ALL TIME.

[Ryan Steel]

ICEFANG13, on 05 February 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

It doesn't matter who the best Highlander is, a Jenner will always be right behind it.

It's only scary when it's a good Jenner pilot, and you certainly qualify.

[El Space Doctor]

I wonder if being a good highlander pilot will be an event in the next special olympics?

[kaffeangst]

It is, and I already received my medal for winning.

[Mister Blastman]

Sandpit, on 05 February 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

Maybe read before ranting next time? He was talking about JJs and just used the Highlander as an example. At least read before you post nonsensical ranting....

Read? I can read pretty well, thank you. And I'll rant all I want, especially as long as you are here.

Also, a couple sentences, doesn't equal a rant... Please learn your vocabulary better as it is awful.


rant
rant/Submit
verb
1.
speak or shout at length in a wild, impassioned way.
"she was still ranting on about the unfairness of it all"
synonyms: fulminate, go on, hold forth, vociferate, sound off, spout, pontificate, bluster, declaim; More

Edited by Mister Blastman, 05 February 2014 - 07:52 PM.

[Ryan Steel]

kaffeangst, on 05 February 2014 - 07:48 PM, said:

It is, and I already received my medal for winning.

I'll pay you 30k MC for it. It's sitting there collecting dust. Or I can trade it to you for the top 5 Most Vilified Members of the Community medals that I've been receiving on a regular basis. I think my medal is cooler than yours.

[Deathlike]

Man... all the good stuff happens when I'm not playing MWO.

wanderer, on 05 February 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

Of course, your jets cost .5 ton each. 60-85 are a ton each, 90+ are TWO tons each.

The basic jump capacity for a Highlander is enough tonnage to strap -twelve- jets on a Spider (that is, if it could carry 12). The difference is that right now, the number of jets barely matters. It's not quite as broken as closed beta, but it's certainly still screwed up.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ab#i=51&l=stock

Yes, someone forgot of the Spider-5V's existence, not that it is terribly balanced (heck, I should just write about how the Lights in general are poorly balanced, but I'll wait until the Firestarter is available on general release).


I thought Paul when he mentioned "nerf gun" was referring to the state of LBX... you know, THAT in-game nerf gun (it's still terrible Paul... just reminding you here).

The Highlander itself is not the problem... it's everything that makes the Highlander good (JJs, PPC+AC5 still being the spectacular combo, LPL being a core joke).

Here's a bit of JJ history:
Back when I started actually playing the game, there was one JJ related change. This is the one change that we still use today... a major buff to JJs boosted the initial "launch" of the mech, allowing it to climb quickly when used. I would argue this is the foundation of the JJ/poptart problem that went addressed for at least a year. Anyone who doesn't want to admit to that is blind by the facts... that happened and is the core problem we have today.

It has been argued before that simply having 1 JJ is enough for any JJ capable mech. I disagree personally, but if you're specifically using it to turn around quicker than your natural turn rate... well, congrats.

I build everything with 2 JJs in mind (I'm crazy, mind you), so regardless of the nerf, I'll probably be OK. If worse comes to worse, I'll probably end up using the Victor or the next meta mech in line. Nerfing the Highlander doesn't solve anything.

I don't think the Highlander hitboxes have gotten "the change", and since I usually max out the leg armor, this isn't a problem for me. Of course, Paul seemingly is "done?" with that hitbox torso-leg thing... at this point, this is the worst noise generated ever. Literally, this thread is some sort of "troll convention". Congrats Paul, you succeeded.

There's something to be said for "taking a look at the Highlander" and "looking at JJs", but honestly Paul.. if you nerf something, say the Raven-3L, and the actual problems with it was that ECM was really powerful (if not OP) and that Streaks were too strong (CT-coring for a long time)... is that leg hitbox nerf a little too much after the fact?

Sometimes, you seem to try to cure the symptoms of the sickness, instead of the actual problem. The fact that more often than not, "the cure" is worse than the disease in every patch balance thread can arguably be mighty insulting. So before you take that "serious look", please revisit all the other changes... buffs and nerfs and take a hard look before just instituting your own "fixes" for stuff that should or should not have been instituted from the start. That major JJ buff from a year ago is the #1 reason why poptarts and subsequently the Highlander got popular. Your "PPC" buffs back when you didn't have HSR, became the super-meta. Your original and current implementation of ECM is the source of various problems with missiles and information warfare (or technically, lack thereof). Don't be flinging that nerf gun when LBX is still not a weapon that the elite players even touch.

So Paul.... make your move. I'm sure it'll be as great as the Spider-5V. I hope your alt account isn't being ravaged by the "Goons <3 Paul" crowd, because I'd hate to think that is still going on.