1026 replies to this topic

[wanderer]

Quote

How's pinpoint damage the problem? I fail to see how forcing everyone to do 2x~3x the amount of damage to get a mech down will solve the issue associated with the current meta.

Everyone not using ballistic/PPC builds pretty much already DOES have to do 2x-3x the damage to get a kill, because all other weapon types allow the target to passively and actively spread damage by simply moving or twist-shielding, respectively. That's why it's the meta. You only have to do 50-75% the damage to kill opponents vs. other options with similar DPS.

Quote

jump sniping not even being a problem

HAHAHAHA OMG THAT IS A FUNNY JOKE....waaait, you're serious.

Can I have whatever drugs you're on, cause that is one impressive trip.

Edited by wanderer, 06 February 2014 - 01:43 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

I'll throw into this discussion something else often overlooked.

arms locked to torso.

without this "Feature" delivering pinpoint damage to one location when using arm & torso weapons together in effect gives these chassis the same power as mechs like the dual gauss K2 or the jaegger mech. it makes pinpointing all damage to one location significantly easier in general, and the "Drawback" of slower torso twist is mostly overshadowed.

added to this better players can keep it unlocked and lock it for firing to get the best pinpoint damage convergence.

I'd propose that even when the arms are "locked" to torso, they still move in about a 1 inch circle around the torso in the same way they do now, they just dont stretch as far.

this alone would help to disperse alphas from arms & torsos across multiple locations especially at longer ranges.

[catspider]

What I find funny throughout the nerf mania is that even though there is one recurring theme of the PPC being present, it is the one thing not being nerfed into oblivion. Modifying jump-jets will greatly decrease the effectiveness of snipers without doubt, but without dual PPCs most pop tart builds loose their potency.

Personally i'm not a fan of ghost heat as it is a clunky and awkward mechanic, that does not apply evenly to all weapons and is very difficult for new players to understand. Limiting mech heat capacity would have been a better way to bring down high energy alphas, but we cant touch that.. somehow it would be wrong... (sarcasm)

So lets modify jump-jets and everything else because making changes to the PPC is apparently a faux-pas.If PPCs spread damage rather than pinpoint the sniping game might be very different.

Edited by catspider, 06 February 2014 - 01:53 PM.

[Abivard]

Just get it over with and make all weapons do 1 damage over 1 second with a 4 second cooldown.

JJ will lift a mech for 1 foot per JJ

Lights may run at 999 kph

At which point no one is happy, everyone quits, and MW has a chance to be done correctly by someone who cares and has the skill and intelligence to make this IP come to life.

[Bilbo]

Victor Morson, on 06 February 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

Except that's not what's happening.

We're saying "Fix the right things. Make the other 'mechs better. Get rid of the silly limitations that have eliminated the Stalker/Battlemaster from competing." We're not going "Ohhhh no we're going to lose our Highlanders!"

We don't want another elaborate, Rube-Goldberg fix like Ghost Heat that makes no sense and doesn't accomplish what it sets out to because it was so, so poorly thought out.

People who pilot the non-meta stuff don't really understand where we're coming from. We don't want more 'mechs screwed up, we want more 'mechs usable. I'd love a viable Awesome far more than I'd love a nerf'ed anything. I'd also love to move away from ballistic+energy as the primary thing, but again, their "fix" for 6 PPC Stalkers (Which would not work with the fixed PPC) destroyed hundreds of viable builds.

If they screw up jump jets - with jump sniping not even being a problem and their importance now being central to mobility on maps - they are barking up the wrong tree.

JJ are already broken. I don't care about Jump Sniping in general. The fact that you can take a single JJ and get most of the benefits of having them is broken. Doesn't matter how the rest of the mech is built.

[Heffay]

I'm sure they'll be able to keep their high Elo scores even with the jump jet nerfs. Because, of course, their scores are based on how incredibly talented they are, and not because they only drop in 4 man groups with 733Cs...

[aniviron]

Rouken, on 06 February 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

The problem isn't that poptarts exist. The problem is that right now it overshadows other methods of delivering damage.

Precisely. Removing shooting while jumping is driving in a nail with a wrecking ball. If you just made players max out their jumpjets if they wanted to poptart effectively, then you're forcing them to devote 5-10 tons to jumpjets, and that comes out of armor or weapons somewhere. The problem fixes itself fairly quickly- players who keep poptarting are either slower, less well armored, hotter, or do less damage. As an added bonus, players can still enjoy the wonders of aerial combat in their rides of choice, they just have to decide if it's worth more than a half ton and a single crit to them.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Abivard, on 06 February 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Just get it over with and make all weapons do 1 damage over 1 second with a 4 second cooldown.

JJ will lift a mech for 1 foot per JJ

Lights may run at 999 kph

At which point no one is happy, everyone quits, and MW has a chance to be done correctly by someone who cares and has the skill and intelligence to make this IP come to life.

I hate people who cry about balance changes that adjust things downward.

Part of balancing properly is moving the parts to where you have a fun game. Sometimes that means adjusting down, sometimes that means adjusting up.

When you have a game like this, where you have a singular life per game, it's very bad to have instances where you can do everything right and still be put down in a couple good volley's of weapons with reasonably short recycle times.

Especially when you consider PGI did such an amazing job creating mech's with multiple hit boxes.

It's stupid to be able to shoot off a mech's arms, when it almost always makes more sense to shoot them in the center torso (or side torso's if you know they have an XL).

You might as well give us hitpoints with the way the game plays now.

PGI needs to give us a reason to see an Atlas coming at us and not just put pinpoint damage into it's center torso repeatedly. If weapons spread and defensive manuvers become more important, you tend to have more situations where taking out an arm is worth doing.

Right now the game is getting stale, not only because of the lack of CW, but because the mechanics are always the same unless you are purposely gimping yourself.

[Corvus Antaka]

aniviron, on 06 February 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

Precisely. Removing shooting while jumping is driving in a nail with a wrecking ball. If you just made players max out their jumpjets if they wanted to poptart effectively, then you're forcing them to devote 5-10 tons to jumpjets, and that comes out of armor or weapons somewhere. The problem fixes itself fairly quickly- players who keep poptarting are either slower, less well armored, hotter, or do less damage. As an added bonus, players can still enjoy the wonders of aerial combat in their rides of choice, they just have to decide if it's worth more than a half ton and a single crit to them.

you could shoot and jump with btech : 3025 MPBT jumpjets. But, the jumps where much faster in velocity, making holding aim on a target much harder, and we had a similar type of dispersion as MWO does. it was about 50/50 hit or miss if shooting while jumping due to difficulty, and additionally you had the risk of not saving enough fuel to land, falling over, or jumping extra high but taking more leg damage because you burnt off all your fuel.

PGI lowered dispersion of fire alongside lowering reticule shake. one thing they could do is increase fire dispersion without increasing the visual effect?

[Dawnstealer]

Kyle Wright, on 06 February 2014 - 07:52 AM, said:

They've been saying that since early last year.

The main issue is pop tarting correct? Well maybe they should put weapons charging on PPC's instead of guass there you go.

Or just make it impossible to fire a weapon while jumping.

[Abivard]

If the game was able to recognize when a mech gets hit that would fix the poptart complaint for the most part.

The hit registry in this game is abysmal at the best of times.
The game refuses to register hits in many cases on a mech in the air.
Compounded by players who could not hit the broadside of a barn to begin with, let alone something moving.

Tinkering with weapons, jj's or mechs will not fix the problem, which is poor hit registration and lack of player needed skills.

One can do little about players skills, but you can certainly fix Hit-Reg.

In game Voice would also do far more to combat poptarts or any other meta than tinkering with weapons or mechs, it would allow team work and prompt communications among players.

Do not ask me to hold your hand and walk you through these concepts, just apply a little thinking to it and it should be evident.

[BlackDrakon]

FIX SRM'S!!!

Game will balance itself!! NO NEED OF NERFS, JUST FIX UR GOD DAMN GAME!!!

[LORD TSARKON]

Kinda sad reading this thread... it points out a lot of the weapon and game imbalances and band aid fixes (ghost heat)...

I honestly do not think PGI will ever fix SRMS.... thus making Medium Mechs inferior.

PPCs and Ballistics need to either get a nerf stick... not a particular Mech...

PPCs need to do splash damage.. not pinpoint damage....

Ballistics need to be not poinpoint either...

IF you alpha strike... no covergence,ect

Half the weapons in this game are a joke..... NARc,,, Pulse LAsers.... SRMS.... Flamers....

Now with 2.0 and cockpit glass this game is really not fun anymore to play

[keith]

pgi is again doing things semi half assed. yes the highlander is the best assault mech but u are still missing core gameplay. u have no tonnage limits(should have been in from CB) and u have no sense of brawling to counter act jump snipers. those 2 key features need to be in the game before u start making any major change to a chasis. i really do wonder about pgi devs

[DevsAdvocate]

Rouken, on 06 February 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

The problem isn't that poptarts exist. The problem is that right now it overshadows other methods of delivering damage.

Right, so why not eliminate it and let other methods prevail?

[Thanatos676]

You cant just "eliminate" a play-style completely. But you can certainly tweak it so its not as OP...

[Jman5]

Victor Morson, on 06 February 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

Except that's not what's happening.

We're saying "Fix the right things. Make the other 'mechs better. Get rid of the silly limitations that have eliminated the Stalker/Battlemaster from competing." We're not going "Ohhhh no we're going to lose our Highlanders!"

We don't want another elaborate, Rube-Goldberg fix like Ghost Heat that makes no sense and doesn't accomplish what it sets out to because it was so, so poorly thought out.

People who pilot the non-meta stuff don't really understand where we're coming from. We don't want more 'mechs screwed up, we want more 'mechs usable. I'd love a viable Awesome far more than I'd love a nerf'ed anything. I'd also love to move away from ballistic+energy as the primary thing, but again, their "fix" for 6 PPC Stalkers (Which would not work with the fixed PPC) destroyed hundreds of viable builds.

If they screw up jump jets - with jump sniping not even being a problem and their importance now being central to mobility on maps - they are barking up the wrong tree.

If you leave jump sniping as is and you just turn around and make all the other loadouts/playstyles stronger sure you'll have better balance among assaults/heavies, but at what cost? Now you have everything dying even faster than they already were because we took the "buff all the things" approach.

Despite all the angst Ghost heat and overheat damage did accomplish a great deal. It got rid of a lot of boat builds that absolutely wrecked mechs in one or two hits at very little risk to themselves. Was is a panacea? No it did not fix every balance problem with the game. This is partially why jumpsniping took such prominence. Because it was left as one of the few strong play styles. It sticks out like a sore thumb instead of being one of many overpowered assault/heavy builds.

Balance is all relative. A dual UAC/5 + Dual PPC Highlander is only strong relative to other mechs and playstyles. Nerfing it indirectly buffs all other mechs and play styles that compete against it in a game. If a Highlander can't kill your Awesome as fast as it once could, your Awesome got an indirect buff against highlanders.

Just one final note:
Please refrain from using the pronoun "we". It implies you're speaking for us or the community as if we are one voice. This is your post and your opinion. You're not our spokesman. If you want to speak for others please name them so we know who this "we" is. Are you the official spokesman for Blazing Aces?

Edited by Jman5, 06 February 2014 - 02:22 PM.

[DevsAdvocate]

BlackDrakon, on 06 February 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

FIX SRM'S!!!

Game will balance itself!! NO NEED OF NERFS, JUST FIX UR GOD DAMN GAME!!!

You will still die before getting into SRM range...

[Kin3ticX]

buff the hill climb module and give every non-JJ mech another module slot

[Dymlos2003]

So what do you think would be the change to JJs? You know the thing this thread is about.