1026 replies to this topic

[Dracol]

Ohm, on 06 February 2014 - 11:13 PM, said:

This nerfing bullcrap always makes me laugh. Nerf what you want. Ruin the game. Take away the play style of the elite players and guess what... They find a new one. The winners are still going to win. The criers are still going to cry. You're still going to do a lot of work that wasn't needed in the first place LOL.

At this point, its not a matter of losers crying over what killed em.... Its a matter of the winners saying "there is one option that overshadows the rest. Make it so we have a choice."

Its not a matter of making one play style obsolete, its a matter of making that play style equal and not superior to the rest of the play styles.

[Tier up]

Dracol, on 06 February 2014 - 11:21 PM, said:

At this point, its not a matter of losers crying over what killed em.... Its a matter of the winners saying "there is one option that overshadows the rest. Make it so we have a choice."

Its not a matter of making one play style obsolete, its a matter of making that play style equal and not superior to the rest of the play styles.

This isn't true. The winners don't *****. I have never EVER seen crying in competitive 12 man games. NEVER. Furthermore nothing even needs nerfed. If you put in a lobby system all of this goes away.

[Dracol]

Ohm, on 06 February 2014 - 11:26 PM, said:

This isn't true. The winners don't *****. I have never EVER seen crying in competitive 12 man games. NEVER. Furthermore nothing even needs nerfed. If you put in a lobby system all of this goes away.

hmmm.. I said "Its a matter of the winners saying "there is one option that overshadows the rest. Make it so we have a choice."
Can't figure out which word you read as crying.

And I agree with you, haven;t heard players in clans like the SJR crying. I have heard em say that its the same every time they drop and it would be nice to have a few different play styles be able to hold their own at their level of playing.

[Tier up]

Dracol, on 06 February 2014 - 11:35 PM, said:

hmmm.. I said "Its a matter of the winners saying "there is one option that overshadows the rest. Make it so we have a choice."
Can't figure out which word you read as crying.

And I agree with you, haven;t heard players in clans like the SJR crying. I have heard em say that its the same every time they drop and it would be nice to have a few different play styles be able to hold their own at their level of playing.

You have heard SJR say that they wish other teams players could hold their own? I'm calling bullshit. I played with SJR everyday for 2 months and never EVER did i hear them cut anyone any slack, or say that a win was boring to them. What you're failing to realize is that this has NOTHING to do with play style. It has to do with finding ways to win. There will always be a better way... That's how you win. You win by putting in the research and effort. Not by crying about how someone else plays. Thats exactly what this is turning into. "He beat me! ITS THE GAMES FAULT!" It will always be the games fault for those people.

[YueFei]

Ohm, on 06 February 2014 - 11:49 PM, said:

You have heard SJR say that they wish other teams players could hold their own? I'm calling bullshit. I played with SJR everyday for 2 months and never EVER did i hear them cut anyone any slack, or say that a win was boring to them. What you're failing to realize is that this has NOTHING to do with play style. It has to do with finding ways to win. There will always be a better way... That's how you win. You win by putting in the research and effort. Not by crying about how someone else plays. Thats exactly what this is turning into. "He beat me! ITS THE GAMES FAULT!" It will always be the games fault for those people.

You're failing badly at reading comprehension twice in a row. Try reading Dracol's posts more closely. He is agreeing with you, man.

[Tier up]

Ima make this real easy for you to process. You used SJR so im gonna use them again. Do you really think that they are going to magically start losing? I don't think so. I don't even think its going to get harder for them. They are a dedicated team that practices and puts in the time. Now... Do you think they people they beat are still going to whine? I think they are. It's the same for non comp play. Do you think the people that are winning are going to magically stop winning? Nope. But the cry babies... They will still be around.

YueFei, on 06 February 2014 - 11:56 PM, said:

You're failing badly at reading comprehension twice in a row. Try reading Dracol's posts more closely. He is agreeing with you, man.

He's agreeing to a point. However i think he's lying in his agreement.

[WarZ]

For crap's sake !!!

How blind do you have to be to not understand the real issue is f'ing jump sniping, and not only a specific mech.

Unless they are going to FIRST fix jump sniping where either:
1) You can't fire your weapons while airborne. Or...
2) You get a random hit chance at ALL times when airborne (not just when firing jets). Or...
3) You get the original (more) shaky targeting reticule at ALL times when airborne. Or...
4) A combination of some of the above items.

YOU WILL NOT FIX THE PROBLEM !!!

The jump jets are what make the mech so damn awesome. With the changed movement and terrain mechanics that jump ability makes it and any of the heavier mechs over powered.

You as the dev's should be able to understand this. You even made a nerf (which you took back due to whiners). So you left it only semi fixed and then ignored it afterwards.

Almost everybody understands its the jump jets that are the issue. Except of course the devs it seems.

This is just f'ing infuriating to see.

AND I DONT EVEN OWN A HIGHLANDER. So I'm not concerned about my personal ride. I'm more concerned with a tactic that will just migrate to another chasis until the core issue of easy jump firing is addressed.

Edit: Clarity.

Edited by WarZ, 07 February 2014 - 12:53 AM.

[Tier up]

WarZ, on 07 February 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:

For crap's sake !!!

How blind do you have to be to not understand the real issue is f'ing jump sniping, and not only a specific mech.

Unless they are going to FIRST fix jump sniping where either:
1) You can't fire your weapons while airborne. Or...
2) You get a random hit chance at ALL times when airborne (not just when firing jets). Or...
3) You get the original (more) shaky targeting reticule at ALL times when airborne. Or...
4) A combination of some of the above items.

YOU WILL NOT FIX THE PROBLEM !!!

The jump jets are what make the mech so damn awesome. With the changed movement and terrain mechanics that jump ability makes it and any of the heavier mechs over powered.

You as the dev's should be able to understand this. You even made a nerf (which you took back due to whiners). So you left it only semi fixed and then ignored it afterwards.

Almost everybody understands its the jump jets that are the issue. Except of course the devs it seems.

This is just f'ing infuriating to see.

AND I DONT EVEN OWN A HIGHLANDER.

and here people we have part of the problem HAHAHAHAHAHA. Thanks for being a prime example WarZ

Edited by Ohm, 07 February 2014 - 12:06 AM.

[YueFei]

Ohm, on 06 February 2014 - 11:57 PM, said:

Ima make this real easy for you to process. You used SJR so im gonna use them again. Do you really think that they are going to magically start losing? I don't think so. I don't even think its going to get harder for them. They are a dedicated team that practices and puts in the time. Now... Do you think they people they beat are still going to whine? I think they are. It's the same for non comp play. Do you think the people that are winning are going to magically stop winning? Nope. But the cry babies... They will still be around.



He's agreeing to a point. However i think he's lying in his agreement.

He never said anything about them losing. He claims that they've wished for the viability of a variety of playstyles. Then your reply had nothing at all to do with his claim.

[Tier up]

YueFei, on 07 February 2014 - 12:06 AM, said:

He never said anything about them losing. He claims that they've wished for the viability of a variety of playstyles. Then your reply had nothing at all to do with his claim.

"I have heard em say that its the same every time they drop and it would be nice to have a few different play styles be able to hold their own at their level of playing."

Perhaps You need some help with reading comprehensin.

My reply was me calling him out on this sentence. SJR doesn't do this. They take the win and move on. They don't fret over having more play styles.

Edited by Ohm, 07 February 2014 - 12:12 AM.

[WarZ]

Ohm, on 07 February 2014 - 12:04 AM, said:

and here people we have part of the problem HAHAHAHAHAHA. Thanks for being a prime example WarZ

Says a dipshit making statements that he cant even keep straight.

My post is spot on. Yours... you need to go reread.

Buh Bye.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ohm, on 07 February 2014 - 12:10 AM, said:

"I have heard em say that its the same every time they drop and it would be nice to have a few different play styles be able to hold their own at their level of playing."

Perhaps You need some help with reading comprehensin.

My reply was me calling him out on this sentence. SJR doesn't do this. They take the win and move on. They don't fret over having more play styles.

and SJR is the only opinion that matters?

Most 12 man simply embrace the meta. The point being made is there are people who don't play simply for the comp, and for them, versatility and not being locked into a limited set of choices to succeed, would be nice.

[YueFei]

Ohm, on 07 February 2014 - 12:10 AM, said:

"I have heard em say that its the same every time they drop and it would be nice to have a few different play styles be able to hold their own at their level of playing."

Perhaps You need some help with reading comprehensin.

My reply was me calling him out on this sentence. SJR doesn't do this. They take the win and move on. They don't fret over having more play styles.

This was your initial reply:
"You have heard SJR say that they wish other teams players could hold their own? I'm calling bullshit."

He wasn't saying that. At all.

Whether his claim of SJR wishing for viability of playstyle variety is TRUE or FALSE, your initial reply wasn't relevant to that claim.

[WarZ]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 February 2014 - 12:15 AM, said:

The point being made is there are people who don't play simply for the comp, and for them, versatility and not being locked into a limited set of choices to succeed, would be nice.

Bingo.

[Tier up]

In order to win you are always going to have a limited set of choices. Good choices = win. Bad choices = lose. Now... Versatility is not a bad thing. That's not what im arguing. Im simply saying that no matter how much "versatility" they put in this game, people are still going to cry, because they are still going to lose.

[YueFei]

And for those who talk about how no matter what, there will always be a "BEST" way to play?

Look at the NFL. Is there a single play on offense that you can run all day every day on every single down and have it work every single time? Is there a defensive scheme that will work on any offensive play all the time?

The thing that makes football interesting is that there is always a counter. And thus teams evolve counters to those counters. And so on and so forth. You have teams trying to decipher each other's intentions even before the ball is snapped and the play unfolds, and each side trying to disguise what it wants to do.

In MWO, if there is a single dominant playstyle that trumps all others, we have a game balance problem. Whether that is the case in MWO or not, I don't claim to know.

What I will say is this: if many of the top players, and some of the smartest minds in MWO, cannot think of a way to counter a particular tactic besides using the same tactic and simply executing it better? Even after months of brainstorming and experimentation? Only then would I consider a particular tactic to be a balance problem.

Are we at such an impasse or not?

Edited by YueFei, 07 February 2014 - 12:29 AM.

[Mazzyplz]

Ohm, on 06 February 2014 - 11:13 PM, said:

This nerfing bullcrap always makes me laugh. Nerf what you want. Ruin the game. Take away the play style of the elite players and guess what... They find a new one. The winners are still going to win. The criers are still going to cry. You're still going to do a lot of work that wasn't needed in the first place LOL.

that's fine.
remember when the AC40 jager was killing everything, the splatcat? so what you're sayin is that if PGI introduced an absolutely broken mech that can kill you in 1 shot or 2 tops, you would instantly buy it and play it with a straight face? and consider yourself elite because you just use the most broken mechanic, yes broken, like the ac40 was and the splatcat was with the faulty area of effect on mechs, they would 1 shot kill cockpits on any mech, light to assaults.

for these situations that are OBVIOUSLY not intended because of incompetence when balancing the game, i do not consider the use of such "tactics" any more dignified than playin street fighter 2 with bison and just doing the sweep kick over and over, it doesn't make you a good player at all. for all of the same reasons sweep kicking to victory on street fighter 2 doesn't make you a good player there either.

for most mechs though i don't see a problem, but we were swimming in 6 ppc stalkers for a time, remember that?

Edited by Mazzyplz, 07 February 2014 - 12:29 AM.

[Tier up]

Mazzyplz, on 07 February 2014 - 12:27 AM, said:

that's fine.
remember when the AC40 jager was killing everything, the splatcat? so what you're sayin is that if PGI introduced an absolutely broken mech that can kill you in 1 shot or 2 tops, you would instantly buy it and play it with a straight face? and consider yourself elite because you just use the most broken mechanic, yes broken, like the ac40 was and the splatcat was with the faulty area of effect on mechs, they would 1 shot kill cockpits on any mech, light to assaults.

for these situations that are OBVIOUSLY not intended because of incompetence when balancing the game, i do not consider the use of such "tactics" any more dignified than playin street fighter 2 with bison and just doing the sweep kick over and over, it doesn't make you a good player at all. for all of the same reasons sweep kicking to victory on street fighter 2 doesn't make you a good player there either.

I never once had a problem with the ac40. Or the splat cat. Stay out of rage... LOL. This is the type of thing im talking about. Because this guy couldn't shoot outside of 270 meters its the games fault.

Edited by Ohm, 07 February 2014 - 12:30 AM.

[YueFei]

Ohm, on 07 February 2014 - 12:24 AM, said:

In order to win you are always going to have a limited set of choices. Good choices = win. Bad choices = lose. Now... Versatility is not a bad thing. That's not what im arguing. Im simply saying that no matter how much "versatility" they put in this game, people are still going to cry, because they are still going to lose.

If I'm playing Starcraft I'm going to lose to top players regardless of the variety of viable tactics available. But I'm sure that top players all appreciate a game that has true depth, a game that has no single dominating tactic to the exclusion of all other tactics at the highest level of play.

Even a simple game like Rock / Paper / Scissors adheres to this principle...

[Mazzyplz]

Ohm, on 07 February 2014 - 12:29 AM, said:

I never once had a problem with the ac40. Or the splat cat. Stay out of rage... LOL. This is the type of thing im talking about. Because this guy couldn't shoot outside of 270 meters its the games fault.

it is the game's fault when you suddenly drop in freaking frozen city and there's no view past 400 meters - einstein

the jag tanks shots 100 meters and instagibs, did you consider this sherlock? this is a good mechanic? you would have to be very slow not to get your splatcat or acjag kills in frozen city because it's that's just so convenient isn't it? how about every time the smaller maps roll in we give some players some free frags? sounds good? very skill based isnt it

Edited by Mazzyplz, 07 February 2014 - 12:35 AM.