1026 replies to this topic

[Colonel Fubar]

Mech Warrior Pilots could fill volumes with what needs to be nerfed in MWO. How long has PGI been working on this game? Somewhere around 2022 we should have something that compares to MW3 or MW4 did straight out of the box.

Edited by Danny Fubar Col 21C RHG, 26 February 2014 - 04:57 PM.

[Stepping Razor]

SovietKoshka, on 26 February 2014 - 12:09 AM, said:

How about instead of nerfing mechs, you double ammo, armour, and remove ghost heat.

The armour stops alpha strike insta kills. and renders ghost heat null and void.

The ammo makes brawling viable with the increased armour, turning MW into what it should be... A SLUG FEST.

I agree we should be shelling out more more ammunition, and have more armor, though the only reason this would not work is people would complain about it extending game, which is fine with me, but we seem to be playing with people who are impatient and expect engagements to last 10 seconds, i guess its an improvement, from most FPS that it take 3 seconds to kill some one but that's how those game should play out if u are a infantry combat unit and you get hit with a couple bullet's you are going to go down "though call of duty and battlefield believe it takes 15 bullets". So what im curious about is how does a FPS that doesn't involve mechs take like 15 bullets to kill some one and in Mechwarrior it takes 10 bullets.

So if they were to do this Soviet it would turn into a MECH game and i think they are trying to avoid that.

P.S.
I might be getting a little to technical.
Why does PPC do pinpoint damage? shouldn't it some sort of splash effect, i meen as soon as it hits its like it all gets absorbed into one pinpoint area like some sort of funnel effect, this makes no sense to me. also if i hit some one in the foot with a ppc, and it shorts out their ECM that is in there side torso that makes no sense.
i could under stand if ppc did more of a splash effect creating more heat on target and temporarily disabling different effects on a mech where it hit, like beagle active probe, you hit that area beagle should then not work for a few seconds just like ECM.
well it turned into a rant and i am sorry for that these are more just random idea's, cause the weapon itself to me is cool. but it needs to fill its role better have the effect of what it technically should do.

[Damocles69]

the "nerf gun" must be a muzzle loader

[MustrumRidcully]

wanderer, on 26 February 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

I find it highly amusing that people think a 270m range weapon is the solution to pop-tarting...not to mention that it'd just add another lovely weapon to the poptarter's arsenal, since Victors and Highlanders have plenty of missile hardpoints themselves.

Basically,it's nice but break-even. You get better SRMs, they still get to poptart and lob SRMs that work, too.

The ultimate goal is to have a brawler have a signfiicant firepower advantage when he's at short range compared to the poptarter. The firepower advantage must be so high that the risk of getting to the poptarter is worth it.
Maybe one shouldn't use the nebelous word "risk" and actually describe it more specifically:
The poptarter will generally be able to take a few shots at the brawler before the brawler is in range.
When the brawler is in range, he will deal more damage.
A balance point is reached when the combined total damage the poptarter can deal to the brawler from afar and once the brawler is at range is not so high that the brawler is definitely dead before the brawlers total damage from brawling can kill the poptarter.


Of course, there could still be the issue that whether you're a sniper or a brawler, you need jump jets to win.

[Odanan]

Paul Inouye, on 05 February 2014 - 05:09 PM, said:

Sitting across from the studio from me is a board with all the 'Mechs on it. In my crosshairs... the Highlander. More info to follow along with intended implementation date. Just giving you all a heads up.

So, do you think that game changing equipment of 1.5 tons is considered OK and the Highlander OP?

If you have a nerf gun, please point it at the ECM first.

Here are suggestions of how to do it:
- ECMs should make slower the targeting lock, not denying it. I'm thinking of something very modest, like 25% slower lock for mechs inside the ECM umbrella;
- ECMs should not counter ECMs (that's like making the Scissors beating Paper and Scissors) - there should be another real counter;
- If you are giving so many modules to ECM compatible variants (which are already better than the others), you should create electronic warfare modules, which improve slightly the efficiency of the nerfed ECMs. They should never reach the current OPness, tough.

Besides, the problem is not Highlander, but pop-tarting. Maybe if you improve the SRMs, people will be more stimulated to go brawl.

[Svidro]

Lukoi, on 05 February 2014 - 05:34 PM, said:

Nerf the HGN but then you will note the VTR doing the same thing.....nerfing the VTR will lead you to the CTF-3D....You will smack that but then lo and behold....a SHD with PPC and AC needs a smacking.

Oooh, I see whats up here.
First remove jumpjets from the 733C variant, like the Treb-K.
That will force people to buy Dragonslayers which means more $$$!
Later once people have paid for those and 80% of competitive teams use them, they can nerf that and then introduce a cataphract hero mech with two ballistic slots in the same arm to take it's place.

PGI so cleverrrr. And we don't have a shadowhawk hero mech yet do we?

Edited by Svidro, 03 March 2014 - 02:22 AM.

[Blue Boutique]

We should just link JJ power to throttle settings at jump. Reduce piper movement to simulate G Forces. Have jumping mech fall to the ground and receive extra damage if hit with a ac/10 or PPC.

[DocBach]

Odanan, on 28 February 2014 - 12:46 AM, said:

So, do you think that game changing equipment of 1.5 tons is considered OK and the Highlander OP?

If you have a nerf gun, please point it at the ECM first.

Here are suggestions of how to do it:
- ECMs should make slower the targeting lock, not denying it. I'm thinking of something very modest, like 25% slower lock for mechs inside the ECM umbrella;
- ECMs should not counter ECMs (that's like making the Scissors beating Paper and Scissors) - there should be another real counter;
- If you are giving so many modules to ECM compatible variants (which are already better than the others), you should create electronic warfare modules, which improve slightly the efficiency of the nerfed ECMs. They should never reach the current OPness, tough.

Besides, the problem is not Highlander, but pop-tarting. Maybe if you improve the SRMs, people will be more stimulated to go brawl.

I don't agree with all of your solutions, but I agree that ECM and by extension other electronic warfare equipment needs another pass; standard sensors should never be fully defeated like ECM does (additional lock on time/denial of target information is fine, but complete block is bad), advanced sensors like Beagle (which should work like seismic did) should act as a buff, ECM should act as their debuff.

[Uncle Totty]

IMO, the best way to reduce pop-tarting would be to increase the JJ recharge time. If JJs take X4 longer to recharge, the "tarts" would need to wait that much longer between "popping".

[MajorLeeHung]

/yawn

[rageagainstthedyingofthelight]

He fired the nerf gun at the Spider, but the hit didn't register and the Spider cored him from behind.

[MustrumRidcully]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 04 March 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

He fired the nerf gun at the Spider, but the hit didn't register and the Spider cored him from behind.

With its 6 MGs? Or was it actually a Jenner using the distraction to kill him with true DHS in 3 seconds? Or a Dragon with knockkdown enabled?

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 04 March 2014 - 07:00 AM.

[warner2]

The release of the Battlemaster (variants can be seen on smurfy: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/) shows why the Highlander would remain one of, if not the best assault, even if JJs were nerfed into the ground and became useless.

Whether the Battlemaster was or is going to be any good hinged on one main fact: whether it had any ballistic slots.

At high tonnages energy only 'mechs are not so good (big energy weapons are hot, and affected by ghost heat) and energy/missile only 'mechs are not great either (missiles are either broken like SRM or niche like LRM). So the best assaults have ballistic slots, because the game is balanced that way, and forces you down that route. Awesomes, BLR-1S, Stalkers (excluding Misery), HGN-733P, BNC-3M, they all suffer because of the way the game is balanced.

If JJs become unusable, or less usable, then the Victors with their symmetrical builds and low slung arms would probably be nerfed slightly (excluding Dragon Slayer which has a sword and shield type arrangement). The ballistic Battlemasters might be boosted. Other than that, I don't see how there would be much of a change.

In summary, nerf JJs all you want, you'll still see Highlanders everywhere.

[Mechteric]

warner2, on 05 March 2014 - 04:25 AM, said:

In summary, nerf JJs all you want, you'll still see Highlanders everywhere.

Actually I think it will more switch to Victors, since they haven't really been affected by the nerf to jet maneuverability.

Until the mostly energy builds like the Battlemaster can thrive a bit more (by removing Ghost Heat), and brawling builds are more feasible (fixing SRMs), then the PPC/AC jump meta will continue. Also I would love to see AC's become DPS weapons so they would be better for brawling and not so much for the high alpha builds.

[ArmandTulsen]

OK, so I want to make sure I understand this correctly.

The measure of a nerf is how effective a mech is?

A 90 ton mech with JJs.... That's going to be a killer, no matter which way you slice the cake.

This explains the balancing mess we've been in for well over a year.

Wrong approach, guys

[Lightfoot]

Mechs need buffs. All of them. They are too weak to 2xrecharge. The weapon loadouts in MWO are all very weak by Battletech standards. You'ld be doing the same thing from the opposite direction with buffs instead of nerfs.

[White Panther]

Lightfoot, on 07 March 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

Mechs need buffs. All of them. They are too weak to 2xrecharge. The weapon loadouts in MWO are all very weak by Battletech standards. You'ld be doing the same thing from the opposite direction with buffs instead of nerfs.

Yes, to me the "feel" of combat in the game is boring and stale now. Wouldn't it be nice to wipe some one out with a well placed shot, perhaps knock down a light with an AC20, or have some crazy explosion effects happen. Anything interesting, other than just shooting away over and over with the weapons we have now. Maybe its just me, or I'm playing the wrong game for my taste? who knows... not sure how much longer i'll be around here if its going to be like this.

Edited by White Panther, 07 March 2014 - 09:33 PM.

[Dan Nashe]

White Panther, on 07 March 2014 - 09:30 PM, said:

Yes, to me the "feel" of combat in the game is boring and stale now. Wouldn't it be nice to wipe some one out with a well placed shot, perhaps knock down a light with an AC20, or have some crazy explosion effects happen. Anything interesting, other than just shooting away over and over with the weapons we have now. Maybe its just me, or I'm playing the wrong game for my taste? who knows... not sure how much longer i'll be around here if its going to be like this.

Play WWII online. One shot, one kill. Realistic.
Although average new player KD is about 0.1.

Personally, this sounds awful. Walk around the corner and get one shot without shooting back. Get knocked down and die because the atlas hits you once with an AC20.

Also, you can one shot an atlas. You just have to hit it in the left eye. It's definitely doable. I wouldn't want it to be any easier. Remember watching competitive matches getting decided because one jump sniper took out the head on a catapault? It was not fun for the catapault or his teammates to lose to one lucky shot.

I would go the opposite, double internal structure. A "lucky shot" that just takes out your AC10, or hits your engine (+10 heat?) or takes out a Jump Jet, which occurs MORE THAN 10 seconds before you die is more interesting, because you get to keep playing. Restore that battletech feeling ;-).

Edited by DanNashe, 08 March 2014 - 04:36 PM.

[Bront]

1) With the "Nerf" hit, why is this still pinned?

2) For a better fix, JJs till need to have their boost reduced by 10%. Honestly, a lot of my 2 JJ mechs got a boost out of the new system.

[xXBagheeraXx]

This has probably already been said, but The Victor is Next according to Paul...