213 replies to this topic

[Jaeger Gonzo]

stop thinking about certain mech, start thinking about whole and what future will bring.
What we need is hard points sizes, targetting computer, 2x ballistic range instead of 3x, 2x rate of fire isntead of 3x, real heat scale, SRM reworked, ECM probably reworked, complite critical system, back camera, ouu well and CW maybe.

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 13 February 2014 - 02:46 PM.

[Crockdaddy]

Paul Inouye, on 06 February 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

[color=cyan]I'll chime in here since the write up was well thought out and presented. (Not that other posts haven't been the same, but I'm being prodded by other internal influences)[/color]

Josef above touched on the critical issue that we are looking at... increasing the time to kill. I'll go as far as saying this... some of the medium and heavy 'Mechs went through a quirk balance pass. This has not happened for any of the assaults. Currently, assaults are a little too agile for what they are... the giant sledge hammers of the battlefield. The two Mechs which are currently above expected behaviour are the Highlander AND the Victor. Now keep in mind, it is not just the chassis that is the problem in this case, the jump jet effects on turning and lift also compound the issue with these two 'Mechs specifically. We will be addressing both issues at the same time.

Remember.. the nerf gun is a mid caliber gun... it can do little to medium changes but it's not going to render the targets useless.

thanks for chiming in, I certainly appreciate and I can be at times one of the angry QQ whiny guys. This is a complex issue and it does revolve largely around mobility. The Jump Jets on most maps make a massive difference for the assaults equipped with them. Just like it does for a Cataphract 3D vs the other Cataphract builds. I don't know if I feel comfortable with nerfing anymore weapons at this point, but one item which would help gameplay would be to adjust the ghost heat threshold for the large lasers. PPC / ACs work well for many players (if you have good to decent aim skills) because you burst fire then torso twist / move back into cover. Large lasers you do not have this luxury for obvious reasons and it is more difficult to pin point your shots. I think if you would make some minor adjustments to large laser nerfs this likely would help work towards balancing certain mechs while at the same time working to balance assault JJ mobility balancing. Exampls(removing ghost heat from Large Pulse Lasers entirely and upping the Large laser Ghost Heat threshold from 2 to 3)

[Dawnstealer]

Just bounce up the heat for Jump Jets. Cures a lot of these problems.

[Artgathan]

Dawnstealer, on 14 February 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

Just bounce up the heat for Jump Jets. Cures a lot of these problems.

The problem with increasing heat is that it doesn't affect poptarts (since they can just cool off once they're behind cover again), but it hurts brawlers that use Jump Jets.

[Solis Obscuri]

Paul Inouye, on 06 February 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

[color=cyan]I'll chime in here since the write up was well thought out and presented. (Not that other posts haven't been the same, but I'm being prodded by other internal influences)[/color]

Josef above touched on the critical issue that we are looking at... increasing the time to kill. I'll go as far as saying this... some of the medium and heavy 'Mechs went through a quirk balance pass. This has not happened for any of the assaults. Currently, assaults are a little too agile for what they are... the giant sledge hammers of the battlefield. The two Mechs which are currently above expected behaviour are the Highlander AND the Victor. Now keep in mind, it is not just the chassis that is the problem in this case, the jump jet effects on turning and lift also compound the issue with these two 'Mechs specifically. We will be addressing both issues at the same time.

Remember.. the nerf gun is a mid caliber gun... it can do little to medium changes but it's not going to render the targets useless.

If the Victor's jump-jet maneuvering is going to be nerfed, I'd suggest that it's slope penalties be decreased as per the Awesome and Stalker. It's a dominant 'mech now, but quite a bit of that hinges on it's ability to 1) jump-snipe and 2) carry two PPCs and two AC/5s or UACs in the arms. If you don't partake in either of those two metas, it's performance isn't much difference from an Orion or Cataphract.

Fix jump sniping (for real this time), and further de-synch the PPC from the AC/5 projectile, and a lot of problems with both these chassis go away.

Edited by Solis Obscuri, 14 February 2014 - 05:34 PM.

[Varent]

Solis Obscuri, on 14 February 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

If the Victor's jump-jet maneuvering is going to be nerfed, I'd suggest that it's slope penalties be decreased as per the Awesome and Stalker. It's a dominant 'mech now, but quite a bit of that hinges on it's ability to 1) jump-snipe and 2) carry two PPCs and two AC/5s or UACs in the arms. If you don't partake in either of those two metas, it's performance isn't much difference from an Orion or Cataphract.

Fix jump sniping (for real this time), and further de-synch the PPC from the AC/5 projectile, and a lot of problems with both these chassis go away.

there are plenty of mechs that can carry even more weapons and carry them more effectively. They are not used. There is a reason for this.

the synchronization of weapons and accuracy is not the big deal many people seem to think it is. The ability to not take any damage in return and being able to mitigate damage and have optimum mobility is (Jump jets).

Im pretty happy they are finally attacking the true root of the jump sniping meta of JJ.

[Joseph Mallan]

Why would we need to nerf Jump Jet Manuverability? How would that affect Up and Down in a straight line?

[Varent]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 February 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

Why would we need to nerf Jump Jet Manuverability? How would that affect Up and Down in a straight line?

Torso twisting while jumping. Good jump snipers dont jump up and down in a straight line, they jump in an arc and fall with there non weapon side facing the enemy to absorb damage.

[Joseph Mallan]

Varent, on 15 February 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

Torso twisting while jumping. Good jump snipers dont jump up and down in a straight line, they jump in an arc and fall with there non weapon side facing the enemy to absorb damage.

And that is bad why? isn't that the same tactic we give for us ground pounders?

[Varent]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 February 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

And that is bad why? isn't that the same tactic we give for us ground pounders?

Its currently FASTER with jump jets. Also right now brawlers are the natural bane of a jump sniper, however with the mobility JJ provide and there ability to turn faster because of JJ they are given an even further advantage.

[Joseph Mallan]

Varent, on 15 February 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

Its currently FASTER with jump jets. Also right now brawlers are the natural bane of a jump sniper, however with the mobility JJ provide and there ability to turn faster because of JJ they are given an even further advantage.

An Advantage they had on TT as well. When you jumped you landed facing how you wanted, ground pounders had to pay for every facing, so it feels about right to me what you are saying.

[Varent]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 February 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

An Advantage they had on TT as well. When you jumped you landed facing how you wanted, ground pounders had to pay for every facing, so it feels about right to me what you are saying.

This isnt TT.

[MWHawke]

ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS INTRODUCE A BATTLE VALUE SYSTEM!!!!!!!

For those playing with high BV, let them match up with people of the same thoughts. If there are no others, then TOUGH!!! Let them sit in one corner trying to find a match by themselves!

Nerf this nerf that.. you can find the easiest way by giving each mech and weapon a battle value but instead, you want to do it the back-assward way and individually nerf everything and WHINE about OTHERS whining??!?

Battletech had already worked out a system. All you had to do was tweak that. Many people have advised you on that but do you listen? No! You come up with a whiney post about people whining about you nerfing every product individually. When will you learn that nerfing something will make something else more powerful??!? The only way to make a totally balanced game is to.. HAVE ONE MECH CHASSIS (IT CANNOT BE MODDED) AND MOUNT ONE SMALL LASER TO IT. There!!! ULTIMATE BALANCE!!!

[anonymous161]

So basically the whole topic is....it's a beta.

[Joseph Mallan]

Varent, on 15 February 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

This isnt TT.

I had no idea? Thank you for sharing! However it is based off the TT game AND the fiction written about it. If you want to play a video game that is IN the CBT universe you better get used to the FASAphysics is all I can say. I don't expect Imperial Walkers to act like a Goliath And I don't expect The USS Enterprise to arm the away team with Light Sabers.

So if you don't want to play a game based on Classic BattleTech, I hear Titanfall is in Beta now. Otherwise CBT Universe, CBT Physics.

(this was not wrote in a ranting voice)

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 February 2014 - 11:04 AM.

[Varent]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 February 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

I had no idea? Thank you for sharing! However it is based off the TT game AND the fiction written about it. If you want to play a video game that is IN the CBT universe you better get used to the FASAphysics is all I can say. I don't expect Imperial Walkers to act like a Goliath And I don't expect The USS Enterprise to arm the away team with Light Sabers.

So if you don't want to play a game based on Classic BattleTech, I hear Titanfall is in Beta now. Otherwise CBT Universe, CBT Physics.

(this was not wrote in a ranting voice)

Correct. Its using lore and mechs and weapons from the Battletech universe. That in no way means it has to use the physics, numbers or exact interpretation. They should balance the game appropriatly for an online shooter.

[Joseph Mallan]

Varent, on 15 February 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:

Correct. Its using lore and mechs and weapons from the Battletech universe. That in no way means it has to use the physics, numbers or exact interpretation. They should balance the game appropriatly for an online shooter.

Then they are needing to follow the lore and should just end pop tarting for all but the very best of all the players, cause as far as my reading went, no more than 3 characters ever jumped and fires a weapon. Jump jets were used to add manuverability to mechs in the stories as well as the game, including one where a Dragoon in a Wasp Jumped and did a summersault... landed on a food cart and crushed it... but he stuck the landing!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 February 2014 - 11:27 AM.

[Varent]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 February 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

Then they are needing to follow the lore and should just end pop tarting for all but the very best of all the players, cause as far as my reading went, no more than 3 characters ever jumped and fires a weapon. Jump jets were used to add manuverability to mechs in the stories as well as the game, including one where a Dragoon in a Wasp Jumped and did a summersault... landed on a food cart and crushed it... but he stuck the landing!

Its a game. Not a story. Lore doesnt matter for determining what a player can do. If its CAPABLE of being done. Then the players should be able to do it. Period. Again, Online shooter, not a storybook rpg.

[Khobai]

The lore is irrelevant anyway. MWO already deviates heavily from lore. Whats important is that MWO is balanced not that it adheres to battletech lore. If poptarting makes jumpjets too good then poptarting should be nerfed (preferably with a nerf to pinpoint damage rather than a nerf to jumpjets).

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Mudhutwarrior, on 06 February 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

Stop thinking of pugs as fill for premades matches and give us the same tools.

This has always been the intended role of pugs though. Lone Wolves are going to fill out holes in existing teams in Community Warfare. We've known this since like... 2011...

Gut, on 06 February 2014 - 06:11 PM, said:

Why increase time to kill? Why not put people who can't survive in an environment where people are good shots in a different environment, based on their skill level?

ELO system needs brackets that actually work to span out the skill level.

AND it needs faster queue times.

Besides that, fix registration on all weapons (starting with SRMs) and introduce lobbies as soon as possible and people will be happy.

~The Best HGN player in the game

To address your first question. "Why increase time to kill?" Answer: Because mechs are giant war machines that are not ment to fall when you sneeze at them. Thus time to kill should be increased.

As for your second part of that first line. Get off your high horse.

ELO is not proper for this game anyway. Weight balancing/ some form of battle value is the fix here. NOT ELO.

Agreed on faster que times.

And agreed on fixing the hit reg.

You are not the best HGN player, there's always a bigger fish. Remember that.