72 replies to this topic

[xengk]

Veranova, on 06 February 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

To all those saying these modules came pre-nerfed.
These are modules level 1 & 2. Yes they're not great. But imagine what they'll be like by level 5?

Suddenly they might come in to usefulness.

Yup.
The current modules are Tier 1 with 2 levels, the dev have planned for at least Tier 5, which mean we could see Level 10 modules.
LL Range 10 might look like [+100m/+200m at +1.4heat], placing LL's range as a standard PPC's for the same heat as a LPL.
ML Range 10 would make a standard ML almost ER ML range with just extra 0.8heat, might worth the investment if IS doesn't get ER ML.

I have already invested in a LLaz Range module and might get the MLaz and SRM Range module later, since these are the common weapon I uses.

[WVAnonymous]

Shar Wolf, on 06 February 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

[/size]
Exception: Me and you Adran.
For some weapons (ERPPC Guass and AC/2 come to mind) more range is very nearly irrelevant (unless you can really make use of that extra little max range...but then your damage is so low.....)
But for those little weapons, who are hurt more by a lack of range it offers some very nice possibilities (and the AMS potential... 2AMS with more range? never fear streaks again! Exception: at point blank )

Of course they all offer some potential... just not enough for me to spend 3m on one when I am still trying to get more mechs to master.

I second the call on AMS; a streak/LRM proofed Stalker is nice, makes an obvious add for the 2 AMS Locust.
I skilled most of them, I had 150K GXP, so why not?
I only bought the ML module, and have only used it in my Death Snail which has pretty good heat management. I confess not to have noticed the difference yet.

[Koniving]

Shar Wolf, on 06 February 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

But for those little weapons, who are hurt more by a lack of range it offers some very nice possibilities (and the AMS potential... 2AMS with more range? never fear streaks again! Exception: at point blank )

MG, AMS boosts are the only two that interest me.

Now if there was something that made flamers continue to do either heat or damage after it was fired; that module would be collected in a heartbeat.

Edited by Koniving, 06 February 2014 - 08:16 PM.

[ShinVector]

Adran, on 06 February 2014 - 06:23 PM, said:

Since everyone seems to have COMPLETELY dismissed the new modules, I'm going to take full advantage of people's ignorance and shoot them in the face from a bit further away than normal. Consider this though: what we have is only the first 2 tiers. What happens when there's 5-8+ tiers? Well, suddenly my 281m range Medium Laser is 308-314m, and that's the OPTIMUM range. The max range goes from 540 to 616-628. Also, consider the COST of these modules. It only costs a little per rank, and the cbill cost is relatively low for the overall boost. I have the module on my Cat, and I haven't really even noticed the increased heat. While I haven't noticed the increased range much either, I KNOW it's still helping a little bit. It's better than 80% of the other modules I could get at least. But knowing that eventually I'll be adding as much as 50+ meters to my max range makes me appreciate the module a lot more. Some of the options it's not worth it yet, but they'll get tweaked in the future and we'll eventually see the modules used everywhere.

People are also forgetting 1 thing... Range increase also means a damage boost for people who tend to shoot out of range.

Eg. MLs being shot at approximately 330M.

Standard range at 270M means you are going to lose 1.11 damage per laser, 60M over the ideal, making the damage dealt at that range to be 3.89 damage.

Extended to 281M mean you are going to lose 0.87 damage per laser, 49M over the ideal, making the damage dealt at that range to be 4.13 damage.

In this example this module gives you a 6.1% damage increase if you were to shoot MLs at 330M. Now is this such a bad thing ?

Edited by ShinVector, 06 February 2014 - 08:58 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

ShinVector, on 06 February 2014 - 08:54 PM, said:

Extended to 281M mean you are going to lose 0.87 damage per laser, 49M over the ideal, making the damage dealt at that range to be 4.13 damage.

The dropoff calculations include the increased maximum range as well? (feeling to lazy to do the math myself - esp since the way my brain is working tonight I would probably do it wrong)

[luxebo]

Veranova, on 06 February 2014 - 06:41 PM, said:

To all those saying these modules came pre-nerfed.
These are modules level 1 & 2. Yes they're not great. But imagine what they'll be like by level 5?

Suddenly they might come in to usefulness.

Good point, didn't realize this at all! However, I think they're still only really valuable to those weapons with low heat or not drawbacks at all. If a med laser could reach 1000m, chances are it would be extremely hot. I'm not sure their prices could be fully justified as well.

[Osric Lancaster]

Koniving, on 06 February 2014 - 07:07 PM, said:

...
we have the 3D models of Snub-nosed PPCs as regular PPCs.
...
I mentioned the future tech because we're getting 3D models of them as regular weapons at an alarming frequency as if no one's paying attention to the source material.

. . .What?

Koniving, on 06 February 2014 - 07:07 PM, said:

I'm certain at some point we'll see 'ammo types'. But what about actual weapon "variants"? *snip*

I have less than perfect faith in PGI's intent or ability to code for multiple ammo types, much less the technicolor nightmare you just described.

Koniving, on 06 February 2014 - 07:07 PM, said:

After all, not a single one of the flamers I've read about so far in the books spits out a flame. Instead they spew a chemical that burns on contact.

http://www.sarna.net.../Vehicle_Flamer - is basically a
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Fluid_Gun - loaded with napalm or some other nasty incendiary.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Flamer - vents plasma. That's means fire.

luxebo, on 06 February 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

If a med laser could reach 1000m, chances are it would be extremely hot. I'm not sure their prices could be fully justified as well.

xengk, on 06 February 2014 - 07:25 PM, said:

ML Range 10 would make a standard ML almost ER ML range with just extra 0.8heat, might worth the investment if IS doesn't get ER ML.

I'm still holding on to hope that they revert the base heat to 3.5 for medium lasers and 1.25 for smalls. They've nowhere to go with erMlas but 'stupidly hot' right now. Not really a fan of duplicating er medium lasers as a module upgrade.

Edited by Osric Lancaster, 06 February 2014 - 11:08 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Yes, the AMS and the MG ones are the most recommended, ( I got the AMS, MG and ML my self) Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't one design model they worked with going to have the extended range modules be IN the weapons themselves, that way the mech's own module slots remain empty?

[Koniving]

Osric Lancaster, on 06 February 2014 - 10:50 PM, said:

. . .What?

Spoiler

Koniving, on 25 November 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Take a Kintaro, put on a PPC. Take a Catapult, put on a PPC. Take an Atlas, put on a PPC. Take a Jenner, put on a PPC.

Now take a Shadowhawk and review.

Some comparisons. The comments below here are directed towards PGI's art department.
Kintaro


Shadowhawk right arm


Shadowhawk left arm + AC/2


Jagermech, also a bad offender from the front, but...


Jager again. This isn't really true. The barrel just has 2 thicknesses as it should.


Atlas. Kind of a bad offender but mainly the AC/2 barrel is a lot thicker than the actual firing tube, which is coned into.


The Blackjack, the absolute worst offender.










Seriously the UAC/5 bullet is bigger than all 3 of the barrels and the rings combined!





And finally, what I believe a good consistent size should have been in terms of length and width, which makes it a bit larger than an AC/10 barrel. It is, after all, the energy version of a sharp-shooting rifle. We're not using Snub-Nosed PPCs (the shotgun PPCs) so there should NEVER be a tiny barrel barely longer than a person on a Blackjack's side torsos. We're not using Light PPCs which should be about what the Blackjack has in terms of size. We're not using the Heavy PPCs -- which I think could be fair to say the Awesome and original closed beta Catapult PPCs could be used as a good size reference.


These from the Catapult, are perfectly acceptable as a 'standard' for all regular and ER PPC models (as is the Kintaro's).





Same for the actual weapon sizes. Unless we start getting non-single shot ACs, there's absolutely no reason for miniature UAC/5s with barrels smaller than our machine gun's barrels. Seriously.

And if you think that's bad, look at the Ember's AC/2s, smaller than MG barrels on most mechs.

[Osric Lancaster]

Aaaaah, so you were joking about the inconsistent weapon visual scaling? (To say nothing of 'Mech scaling.) Sorry, it's hard to tell sometimes when someone's being facetious.

[Void Angel]

Koniving, on 06 February 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

I don't think we'll "see" much use of them at all until the clan tech comes out with Clan ER Medium Lasers and superior Gauss Rifle-level damage dealing Clan ER PPCs (and people wonder why I wanted a charge up on the PPCs).

Once the clan tech hits and gets off the ground, we'll see a use of these extended range modules. But to be perfectly honest if these weapon modules are the "weapon variants" we were promised then words can't describe the disgust and contempt. I certainly hope this isn't "it."

You're not going to see Gauss-level damage on the ERPPCs for the Clans; no puretech, remember? Still, the modules are underwhelming in most cases - I slapped the AMS module on my Locust 3M to complement the dual AMS, but I haven't really gotten much data out of the testing. Except that I ran out of AMS ammo really fast. =)

[John MatriX82]

Victor Morson, on 06 February 2014 - 04:02 PM, said:

Go get some strikes, a UAV (A great way to grind XP), coolant 9 by 9, a capture accelerator, even an adv. seismic sensor.. just don't waste your time on a module that increases your heat even a little bit for absolutely pathetic range increases like that.

I can't believe they put out a module to increase the range of the flamer by *1 meter*. SERIOUSLY?

I think they could be more useful @ tier 5 or whatever. Until then, there's no absolute way I'm going to waste module space to use these "boosters" instead of a cool shot, arty, target info or seismic sensor.

Things like these should be "perks" for the pilot, not modules.

[Acierocolotl]

As it stands, I have absolutely no desire to use the modules and don't find them useful. Two extra meters on small (pulse) lasers with even more heat isn't rewarding at the moment, particularily when I can control engagement distances because of my superior speed. I'd actually gladly go the other direction and shave five to ten meters off my ranges in exchange for reduced heat.

Huge caveats: I drive lights exclusively, armed with knife-fighting-range weapons. I've got way more enthusiasm than kills, especially in Locusts. Don't take anything I say here as gospel.

[The Great Unwashed]

I too gave the modules a pass, waiting for whatever level 5 may become, but so far they cannot really compete with the existing modules. Making them pilot-specific makes the gap between starting and experiences players larger still, so some trade-off with precious module space is not so bad (so, it is not really P2W)

I also hope they'll combine the modules. No need to have 3 modules to increase SRM2/4/6/ separately, so a single SRM/LRM module should do.

And I miss the Gauss riffle charge time reduction module and UAC5 jam limiter module, somewhat.

Applying the modules to the individual weapons, not the mech, could work, but only if there is a real zero-sum trade off modding a weapon slighting. 5% range increase for a laser with a 10% reduction in damage or something along these lines. You throw this module in each weapon you feel needs modifying.

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 07 February 2014 - 02:50 AM.

[mikelovskij]

Maybe in the future they will add independent slots for module/weapon upgrades/consumables. So they will become useful.

[Magna Canus]

Osric Lancaster, on 06 February 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

Not that PGI's following the timeline or anything, but -

3051 - NAIS starts testing Silver bullet gauss.
3052 - Thunder LRMs
3053 - Albatross, Spector and Daimyo battlemechs, DNI, NAIS testing AP autocannon rounds
3054 - Apollo battlemech, Laser anti missile system, Extended range LRMs
3055 - . . .

Actually I'll let you go through the list if you're interested, here:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/3055

Lots of potential fodder for CW points or whatever.

EDIT - Oh right, range upgrades! I assume they're place holders. I have to assume this to preserve my sanity.

I want this: http://www.sarna.net...le_Field_Damper
sooooo, want this. =)

[Modo44]

Level 5 would be pretty good for boats. Level 2 is a funny toy. Avoid unless you have Cbills and XP for silly stuff.

[Koniving]

Void Angel, on 07 February 2014 - 01:34 AM, said:

You're not going to see Gauss-level damage on the ERPPCs for the Clans; no puretech, remember? Still, the modules are underwhelming in most cases - I slapped the AMS module on my Locust 3M to complement the dual AMS, but I haven't really gotten much data out of the testing. Except that I ran out of AMS ammo really fast. =)

Gotta remember, they're keeping the flavor. We're more likely to see a charge mechanic on Clan ER PPCs. But honestly with how they gimped these mechs to be slow as dirt while all inner sphere mechs are about 2 to 4 times faster than they were intended to be we'll be seeing Inner Sphere Gundams against Booster-less Armored Core Frames.

[Dawnstealer]

Basically what everyone else is saying. This game is a LOT more about managing heat than damage output. The trick is balancing the two. Eventually, all the fights get close-in, so unless you're completely dedicated to sniping, probably give these modules a pass.

[Redshift2k5]

Koniving, on 07 February 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

Gotta remember, they're keeping the flavor. We're more likely to see a charge mechanic on Clan ER PPCs. But honestly with how they gimped these mechs to be slow as dirt while all inner sphere mechs are about 2 to 4 times faster than they were intended to be we'll be seeing Inner Sphere Gundams against Booster-less Armored Core Frames.

Even though Clan mchs are stuck with a permanent engine, those stock engines are already way higher rated than stock engines for similar weight IS mechs.

• Summoner: 70 tons, 350XL stock, 86 kph
  
• Orion: 70 tons, 300 standard stock, 64 kph

The Summoner is clearly "gimped", right? Obviously Clan lights are a different issue, but even then no IS mech is going double or quadruple their speed. Hyperbole!