261 replies to this topic

[Cimarb]

VanillaG, on 10 March 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

That C-Bill boost is really a replacement for R&R. Think of it as cheaper R&R which means more money in your pocket. I would like to see R&R reintroduced as well but I can't think of way to introduce it without it screwing over newer players.

There is a big difference between the two, though. RnR rewards you for doing well with as little as possible (be it ammo, armor, or components). A cbill boost only rewards you for destroying things. I would much rather have a full detail readout of what I destroyed, what I salvaged, what I expended in armor and ammo, etc, than another "10,000 cbill bonus" tacked on arbitrarily.

Pando, on 10 March 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

What about what WarThunder did giving the player "free repairs" for purchase of a new battlemech.

I played WT for a month and never did figure out how repairs worked in that game... I must not have played it enough each day for them to matter.

[OneEyed Jack]

Pariah Devalis, on 07 February 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

Mmm With the ability to modify total armor points, I could make the Hellbringer work.

It's not mentioned in the OMNIMECH RULES AND CONSTRUCTION but I'm pretty sure they said at one point that armor would be locked. Not sure if it's an omission or a policy change, but I wouldn't get my hopes too terribly high.

Ney2000, on 07 February 2014 - 05:08 PM, said:

^This so badly. It's bad enough my Pod Space has been taken away for hardpoints. Now my precious Summoner only has 3 hardpoints? You're killing me here. I want to buy the clan package. I really do. But everytime this start looking up, you release new info thats killing it for me.

It's almost like you dont want us to run custom loadouts on our clan mechs looking at these options for hardpoints. Everything has exactly enough for the loadout and thats it? This is a joke right?!? I mean 3 hardpoints total on the Adder? If I strip out the flamer and ERPPC's what am I going to do with 12 and a half tons of space (I believe thats correct) but only 3 energy points, one of which is in the head?

It helps if you read the actual system before whining. These are not hardpoints in the same way that the IS has them. They are omnipods. While the hardpoints in a particular omnipod can't be changed, the omnipods attached to the mech can (aside from CT), so you just attach pods with more hardpoints. This also applies to those wondering "which variants will be left out," since they stated:

Quote

[color=#CCCCCC]OmniPods can exist for configurations that we do not sell as complete 'Mechs in the store.[/color]

[Cimarb]

OneEyed Jack, on 10 March 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

It's not mentioned in the OMNIMECH RULES AND CONSTRUCTION but I'm pretty sure they said at one point that armor would be locked. Not sure if it's an omission or a policy change, but I wouldn't get my hopes too terribly high.

The crit slots and type are locked, not the amount. It was clarified in the VLOG.

[Astral Esper]

CyclonerM, on 10 March 2014 - 06:17 AM, said:

Sorry, but i cannot agree in any way. How can you be, for example, one day a rebel pilot and the very next day an imperial pilot, only to switch back to the Rebellion? You have to pick your side, simple.
And i always thought the Clans should have their own currency, preferably Honor. Kerenskies could be used if we say the warrior (the player) requires a 'Mech and a merchant buys (but where?) and ships it..

I understand it wouldn't make sense to be with both IS and Clans (moneywise, I'm just not sure if splitting it between your IS mechbay and your Clan mechbay would be the best for MC. It would make more sense to keep C-Bills and whatever Clans would have seperate though). As for the reason I suggested being able to have an IS setup and a Clan setup is because it wouldn't make sense to have mechs you can't use. I may not have been clear about choosing an IS faction and a Clan faction, what I was proposing was one account being two pilots (one would be an IS mechwarrior and the other would be a clan mechwarrior). I will admit there could be small issues with CW if locations can be fought over by both IS factions and Clan factions.

CyclonerM, on 10 March 2014 - 06:17 AM, said:

More kills? If any of your Star disconnects, or you find yourself alone with little support from your far fewer team mates, i guess you will not enjoy that much the challenge of facing 12 Spheroids.

I, for one, think that balance by numbers could help (but it should not be the only system in place, but also tonnage limits and other stuff).

It is true that one disconnect on Clan side would have a greater impact than IS side having a disconnect, but that also could make having the sides more balanced by equal numbers (12 vs 10) even more important. A disconnect on a 12 or 10 man team isn't too major but having a disconnect on a 5 man team would be a problem. There are still more than enough disconnects. 12 v 5 would be tricky enough without having disconnects causing greater team imbalance then they already do.

[VanillaG]

Cimarb, on 10 March 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

There is a big difference between the two, though. RnR rewards you for doing well with as little as possible (be it ammo, armor, or components). A cbill boost only rewards you for destroying things. I would much rather have a full detail readout of what I destroyed, what I salvaged, what I expended in armor and ammo, etc, than another "10,000 cbill bonus" tacked on arbitrarily.

Except of the fact that "you" don't salvage anything your team does. From my understanding the value to you get is a percentage of equipment of not destroyed and that is divided between the team. From a CW perspective, merc might be able to get contracts in which the percentage of salvage is increased but get no boost based on factories that owned by the faction.

The C-Bill boost, which would for loyalists, doesn't have to be a flat value but could be based on multiple factors. For example, certain chassis have the boost because your faction owns a factory. You could also have factories for certain components (i.e XL Engines, Endo Steel, DHS, Pulse Lasers, etc) and owning those factories provide even more boosts. Then you could even modify it further based on loyalty rank. So if you wanted to run a non-standard mech, you would get the same payouts as now. If you run a faction flavored mech you get more money per match. Incentives are always better that nerfs and the old R&R was punishing to new players, especially if they put on enhanced components.

[CyclonerM]

Vertex99, on 10 March 2014 - 04:58 PM, said:

I understand it wouldn't make sense to be with both IS and Clans (moneywise, I'm just not sure if splitting it between your IS mechbay and your Clan mechbay would be the best for MC. It would make more sense to keep C-Bills and whatever Clans would have seperate though). As for the reason I suggested being able to have an IS setup and a Clan setup is because it wouldn't make sense to have mechs you can't use. I may not have been clear about choosing an IS faction and a Clan faction, what I was proposing was one account being two pilots (one would be an IS mechwarrior and the other would be a clan mechwarrior). I will admit there could be small issues with CW if locations can be fought over by both IS factions and Clan factions.

Thank you for your clarification but i still do not agree at all with two pilots for an account. 1 account = 1 character= 1 MechWarrior. In my opinion having different characters would cheap your character's identity, for those who care of course.

Quote

It is true that one disconnect on Clan side would have a greater impact than IS side having a disconnect, but that also could make having the sides more balanced by equal numbers (12 vs 10) even more important. A disconnect on a 12 or 10 man team isn't too major but having a disconnect on a 5 man team would be a problem. There are still more than enough disconnects. 12 v 5 would be tricky enough without having disconnects causing greater team imbalance then they already do.

I am all for 12vs10, but still, Clan warriors want the challenge, quiaff?

[Cimarb]

Vertex99, on 10 March 2014 - 04:58 PM, said:

I understand it wouldn't make sense to be with both IS and Clans (moneywise, I'm just not sure if splitting it between your IS mechbay and your Clan mechbay would be the best for MC. It would make more sense to keep C-Bills and whatever Clans would have seperate though). As for the reason I suggested being able to have an IS setup and a Clan setup is because it wouldn't make sense to have mechs you can't use. I may not have been clear about choosing an IS faction and a Clan faction, what I was proposing was one account being two pilots (one would be an IS mechwarrior and the other would be a clan mechwarrior). I will admit there could be small issues with CW if locations can be fought over by both IS factions and Clan factions.

There is no reason to split Clans/IS any more than there would be to split the Houses from each other or each Clan from each other. Before the Clans invaded, the Houses fought for five or so centuries non-stop. During the Clan invasion period (which was what, three years?), the Houses banded together to repel the Clans, but that truce barely even lasted that long and there was as much, if not more, cooperation between certain Clans and Houses than there was between Houses or between Clans.

There is no justification to split Clans and IS unless every Clan was separated from every other Clan and the same for all the Houses.

VanillaG, on 10 March 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

Except of the fact that "you" don't salvage anything your team does. From my understanding the value to you get is a percentage of equipment of not destroyed and that is divided between the team. From a CW perspective, merc might be able to get contracts in which the percentage of salvage is increased but get no boost based on factories that owned by the faction.

The C-Bill boost, which would for loyalists, doesn't have to be a flat value but could be based on multiple factors. For example, certain chassis have the boost because your faction owns a factory. You could also have factories for certain components (i.e XL Engines, Endo Steel, DHS, Pulse Lasers, etc) and owning those factories provide even more boosts. Then you could even modify it further based on loyalty rank. So if you wanted to run a non-standard mech, you would get the same payouts as now. If you run a faction flavored mech you get more money per match. Incentives are always better that nerfs and the old R&R was punishing to new players, especially if they put on enhanced components.

I would love to see how they are going to handle the different factions/groups, contracts vs faction stipends, group mercs vs solo mercs, etc. For instance, a cbill boost for loyalists makes a lot more sense than it does for mercs.

[Koniving]

CyclonerM, on 07 February 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

did you notice 81 KPH? It should go at 86!

Speed Tweak. Did you forget?

[CyclonerM]

Koniving, on 23 April 2014 - 10:23 PM, said:

Speed Tweak. Did you forget?

Mmh, i did

But.. i think in the stats they wrote after the screenshots release they wrote 86 KPH as max speed

Anyway, if it is a speed "tweak" i guess it should increase the stock speed of the chassis, not bringing to stock speed. It has been probably already said sometimes but why should we buy variants and master a chassis to get the basic stats? There should not be different variants since each configuration can be made on THE Timberwolf chassis, you know what i mean

[Strum Wealh]

CyclonerM, on 24 April 2014 - 03:59 AM, said:

Mmh, i did

But.. i think in the stats they wrote after the screenshots release they wrote 86 KPH as max speed

Anyway, if it is a speed "tweak" i guess it should increase the stock speed of the chassis, not bringing to stock speed. It has been probably already said sometimes but why should we buy variants and master a chassis to get the basic stats? There should not be different variants since each configuration can be made on THE Timberwolf chassis, you know what i mean

Though, remember that the actual BattleTech speed calculations are:

• (Engine Rating) = (desired Walk MP) * ('Mech total mass) -> (Walk MP) = (Engine Rating)/('Mech total mass)
  
• Run MP = 1.5 * (Walk MP) = 1.5 * ((Engine Rating)/('Mech total mass))
  
• 1 MP = 1 hex per turn = 30 meters per 10 seconds = 3 m/s = 10.8 kph

For the Mad Cat, it's Walk MP is 5, so it's actual Run MP would be 7.5 (1.5 * 5), but the Run MP is rounded up to 8 because one cannot move in half-hex increments.

MWO uses the same speed calculations, but has no need to round up (because hexes are not used as the minimum movement increment), so the MWO Mad Cat ends up being the 5/7.5 'Mech that it would actually be rather than the 5/8 'Mech listed in the TROs.

• MWO Mad Cat base walking speed = 10.8 * (375/75) = 10.8 * 5 = 54.0 kph
  
• MWO Mad Cat base running speed = 1.5 * 10.8 * (375/75) = 10.8 * 7.5 = 81.0 kph
  
• MWO Mad Cat tweaked running speed = 1.10 * 1.5 * 10.8 * (375/75) = 1.10 * 10.8 * 7.5 = 89.1 kph

So, PGI's listing the Mad Cat's base running speed as 81 kph is, in fact, correct with respect to how speeds would be calculated in BattleTech if rounding to full hexes was not needed.

[Pariah Devalis]

Either way, the idea of hauling around at 89 KPH in a 75 ton death dealer is totally up my alley. I have always been drawn to high speed designs in games, and I itch to have the speed the Timber Wolf offers. It is part of why I love my Jester so much. To those who do not own one, being able to move at Clan Speeds in a 65 ton mech is incredible. Being able to move Clan Speeds in a mech that can actually fight back effectively is going to blow my mind.

Ironically, in past MW games, I would downgrade the engines a bit to squeeze in more firepower, but in MWO, even if it was an option I doubt I would do so. I think having a Timber Wolf variant in mind that has near maxed armor, moves at 89 kph after tweak, plentiful heat sinks, and a well rounded 66 point alpha is more than adequate. Anything more than that is just ludicrous. XD

ERPPC in each arm, ERMlas in each arm, LRM10 in each side torso, 1 ton of ammunition, AMS, 1 ton of ammo for the AMS, 23 DHS. Can fire 5.9 paired ERPPC shots before overheat - just barely shut down on the 6th. Can fire the ERMlas and LRM10s damned near indefinitely. Combines light indirect fire with heavy direct fire on a fast moving platform. Do want.

http://keikun17.gith...tc=1&engine=375

(Although the MAD Wolf setup of 2 ERPPC, 2 ERMLas, and an Ultra 5 actually works pretty well. Three alphas with the paired ERPPC, and you can lose heat while blasting with the UAC5 and ERMLas, even with only 20 DHS. Swapping to an LB5X instead might be better, however. Needs to be seen.)

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 24 April 2014 - 05:33 AM.

[CyclonerM]

I love that Timberwolf loadout, i will try it

Strum, i already read somewhere that formula and i did not remember well the rounding up thing, so thank you But it would be very sad to run at 81 kph with such a heavy engine that takes so much precious space

[Pariah Devalis]

Heavy engine, but, c'mon. It is demonstrable that the heavy engine does not cripple the Timber Wolf. It seems to hurt the Summoner, though, as it lacks the full range of weight saving tech many of the other 3050 omnis pack. Clan tech is the quick knife in the throat in the dark from 800 meters away.

[Koniving]

CyclonerM, on 24 April 2014 - 03:59 AM, said:

Mmh, i did

But.. i think in the stats they wrote after the screenshots release they wrote 86 KPH as max speed

Depends. For some mechs they go the stock speed. For some they got a Different Engine to get the stock speed (Cicada?). In general the entire system is screwed up to be honest.

And yeah.. Basically you can rebuild 3 of the same mech.
Although some configurations did have ferro when others do not.
What really changes is the "center torso," though if the hardpoint is fixed and not an omnipod like the Adder, the CT will be the same for all 3 "bodies".

[Pariah Devalis]

Adder had a hardwired flamer. It is not that it is ct mounted that makes it fixed, but that in this case it is one of the few hardwired systems.  Just like how the Warhawk has 20 hardwired DHS. Does not matter where they are, they are present in all variants of the mech in the same spots and are specifically stated as hardwired, and cannot, therefore, be removed.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 24 April 2014 - 08:29 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

Koniving, on 24 April 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

Depends. For some mechs they go the stock speed. For some they got a Different Engine to get the stock speed (Cicada?). In general the entire system is screwed up to be honest.

And yeah.. Basically you can rebuild 3 of the same mech.
Although some configurations did have ferro when others do not.
What really changes is the "center torso," though if the hardpoint is fixed and not an omnipod like the Adder, the CT will be the same for all 3 "bodies".

The Cicada variants in MWO have their stock TT Engines.

The issue comes with those 'Mechs that have odd-numbered Walk MP values in their BattleTech movement profiles (e.g. the AS7-D Atlas as a 3/5 'Mech, the Mad Cat as a 5/8 'Mech, etc) and the use of the BattleTech movement system without the rounding error.
Without rounding up, such 'Mechs lose half-a-point from their run speeds (such that the Atlas becomes a 3/4.5 'Mech, and the Mad Cat becomes a 5/7.5 'Mech), since the actual product of the Run MP calculations are not integers (e.g. 3 * 1.5 = 4.5 rather than 5 & 5 * 1.5 = 7.5 rather than 8) - thus, why the Mad Cat's actual top speed is 81.0 kph (10.8 kph/MP * 7.5 MP) rather than 86.4 kph (10.8 kph/MP * 8 MP) that results from the Run MP being rounded up to the nearest integer.

By contrast, those 'Mechs that have even-numbered Walk MP values in their BattleTech movement profiles (e.g. the stock CDA-2A Cicada as an 8/12 'Mech, or the stock CN9-A Centurion as a 4/6 'Mech) do not experience the rounding error, since the actual product of the Run MP calculations are already integers (e.g. 8 * 1.5 = 12 & 4 * 1.5 = 6) - thus, why the stock CDA-2A's top speed is still 129.6 kph (10.8 kph/MP * 12 MP).

[Koniving]

Strum Wealh, on 24 April 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

Sarna might have something wrong; it seems to say that the stock engine is 300 instead of 320.
Though Megamek is telling me it's 320.

[FireSlade]

Pariah Devalis, on 24 April 2014 - 05:18 AM, said:

Either way, the idea of hauling around at 89 KPH in a 75 ton death dealer is totally up my alley. I have always been drawn to high speed designs in games, and I itch to have the speed the Timber Wolf offers. It is part of why I love my Jester so much. To those who do not own one, being able to move at Clan Speeds in a 65 ton mech is incredible. Being able to move Clan Speeds in a mech that can actually fight back effectively is going to blow my mind.

Ironically, in past MW games, I would downgrade the engines a bit to squeeze in more firepower, but in MWO, even if it was an option I doubt I would do so. I think having a Timber Wolf variant in mind that has near maxed armor, moves at 89 kph after tweak, plentiful heat sinks, and a well rounded 66 point alpha is more than adequate. Anything more than that is just ludicrous. XD

ERPPC in each arm, ERMlas in each arm, LRM10 in each side torso, 1 ton of ammunition, AMS, 1 ton of ammo for the AMS, 23 DHS. Can fire 5.9 paired ERPPC shots before overheat - just barely shut down on the 6th. Can fire the ERMlas and LRM10s damned near indefinitely. Combines light indirect fire with heavy direct fire on a fast moving platform. Do want.

http://keikun17.gith...tc=1&engine=375

(Although the MAD Wolf setup of 2 ERPPC, 2 ERMLas, and an Ultra 5 actually works pretty well. Three alphas with the paired ERPPC, and you can lose heat while blasting with the UAC5 and ERMLas, even with only 20 DHS. Swapping to an LB5X instead might be better, however. Needs to be seen.)

Should try my builds out

• Ilya Muromets This girl is a killing machine and goes 86kph
  
• ON1-K With speed tweak it is the closest thing that I have to a Timber Wolf

[Strum Wealh]

Koniving, on 24 April 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

Sarna might have something wrong; it seems to say that the stock engine is 300 instead of 320.
Though Megamek is telling me it's 320.

The Sarna page for the Cicada says the CDA-2A uses a Pitban 320, as does the Solaris7 page.
Additionally, the BTE page also lists the movement profile as 8 Walk MP & 12 Run MP; (8 Walk MP for the CDA-2A)*(40 tons for the Cicada) = (a 320 Engine rating for the CDA-2A).

[Alaskan Nobody]

Koniving, on 24 April 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

Sarna might have something wrong

Strum Wealh, on 24 April 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

The Sarna page for the Cicada says the CDA-2A uses a Pitban 320

Two words for you two:
Wiki Wars.

Edit: alternatively Kon misread the Hartford 300 Chassis as the engine (which I did re-reading after posting )

Edited by Shar Wolf, 24 April 2014 - 12:30 PM.