261 replies to this topic

[Daneiel]

Lukoi - the fynniest thing is if PGI decide to sell WM they will step over the border pay to win . I will write as i remember the config, so feel free to corect me :

2xERPPC
2xLPL
3xERML ?
1xUAC/20

P.S. That mech even without pass trough mechlab tweak has 50 points pinpoint damage followed by 20 more at range 600-800 !!!!

Edited by daneiel varna, 09 February 2014 - 05:09 PM.

[Odanan]

Strum Wealh, on 09 February 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:

Actually, the Dragon Slayer is Ardan Sortek's Victor (see this post)...

So, yeah... Prometheus for Hero Daishi & Bounty Hunter for Hero Mad Cat!

Anyone interested in Ardan Sortek should read the book The Sword and the Dagger, the very 2nd Battletech book. (the guy in the cover is Ardan himself and the mech in the background is Hanse's Battlemaster)

Daishi/Direwolf could also be Ohiro's. (but I think Widowmaker is the primary choice - can't beat that name!)

[Lukoi Banacek]

daneiel varna, on 09 February 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

Lukoi - the fynniest thing is if PGI decide to sell WM they will step over the border pay to win . I will write as i remember the config, so feel free to corect me :

2xERPPC
2xLPL
3xERML ?
1xUAC/20

P.S. That mech even without pass trough mechlab tweak has 50 points pinpoint damage followed by 20 more at range 600-800 !!!!

Maybe, maybe not brother. We do not know how ClanTech will actually be implemented yet, so who knows...there may be balancing factors that keep that kind of Mech "in-line" with their balance efforts.

Who knows at this point. Probably not even PGI lol.

[Daneiel]

Odanan, on 09 February 2014 - 05:27 PM, said:

Anyone interested in Ardan Sortek should read the book The Sword and the Dagger, the very 2nd Battletech book. (the guy in the cover is Ardan himself and the mech in the background is Hanse's Battlemaster)

Daishi/Direwolf could also be Ohiro's. (but I think Widowmaker is the primary choice - can't beat that name!)

Hohiro is much better choice as the Prometheus , but i never said that WM is a bad choice , i just saied that that mech is going a bit too much for the current pinpoint damage .

About the sword and the dagger i read that book so long ago that i can not remember what load out was in Sortek Victor , i aways accepted it as no modified one and if i remember right Patrick Kell was woonded in the Sortek's Victor and it was unmodified one .

Edited by daneiel varna, 09 February 2014 - 05:42 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

daneiel varna, on 09 February 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

Lukoi - the fynniest thing is if PGI decide to sell WM they will step over the border pay to win . I will write as i remember the config, so feel free to corect me :

2xERPPC
2xLPL
3xERML ?
1xUAC/20

P.S. That mech even without pass trough mechlab tweak has 50 points pinpoint damage followed by 20 more at range 600-800 !!!!

The Widowmaker loadout can be found here, and is as follows:

• x2 Clan ER-PPC (1 in each arm)
  
• x2 Clan Large Pulse Laser (1 in each arm)
  
• x1 Clan UAC/20 (in the RT) with 2 tons of ammo (both in the RA)
  
• x2 Clan ER Medium Lasers (both in CT)
  
• x1 Clan ER Small Laser (in the Head)
  
• x10 additional Clan Double Heat Sinks (+4 in the LT, +3 in the LA, +1 in the RA, +1 in the LL), for a total of 25 Clan DHS

The same (or better/worse, depending on one's perspective) can be achieved with the arms from the Daishi Prime, the Right Torso of the Daishi B, and the "core" of the Daishi W.
And even then, the sheer potential of the Daishi's loadouts makes the basic variants such powerhouses that even the Widowmaker's unique loadout does not cross the boundary into "pay to win" territory.

Odanan, on 09 February 2014 - 05:27 PM, said:

Anyone interested in Ardan Sortek should read the book The Sword and the Dagger, the very 2nd Battletech book. (the guy in the cover is Ardan himself and the mech in the background is Hanse's Battlemaster)

Daishi/Direwolf could also be Ohiro's. (but I think Widowmaker is the primary choice - can't beat that name!)

I strongly suspect that it is actually Hanse Davion himself on the cover of The Sword and the Dagger.



Hanse Davion:



Ardan Sortek:

[TELEFORCE]

That looks like Hanse Davion to me. He was a BattleMaster pilot. I think at some point he also favored a Blackjack

[Blue Shadow]

Thorn Hallis, on 09 February 2014 - 06:41 AM, said:

Even in the board game it was up to the player if he would follow the honor "rules" in a strict or liberal way. Guess what the average MWO player would chose.

Cimarb, on 08 February 2014 - 11:50 PM, said:

Implementing an honor system through the game would be extremely difficult, if not impossible. You could have some sort of "team kill" penalty for shooting at more than one target, but you can't force people to have honor.

Even if they did implement something like that, most of the Clans quickly abandoned the practice themselves after they realized that the IS were capable of taking advantage of it. If you want to use Zellbriggen, the best way to do it is in 12-man drops with other Clan units.

That's true guys and I agree Zellbriggen would be hard/impossible to do. I should have elaborated but I had in mind the 10 vs 12 and keeping Clan mechs restricted to the clan factions. But the way PGI are balancing & selling them it looks like we will see clan mechs for all no matter what faction we join. In some ways that's ok but will leave all the factions looking the same on the battle field....

[Cimarb]

Blue Shadow, on 10 February 2014 - 01:58 AM, said:

That's true guys and I agree Zellbriggen would be hard/impossible to do. I should have elaborated but I had in mind the 10 vs 12 and keeping Clan mechs restricted to the clan factions. But the way PGI are balancing & selling them it looks like we will see clan mechs for all no matter what faction we join. In some ways that's ok but will leave all the factions looking the same on the battle field....

When the Launch Module and CW are implemented, we will be organized based upon faction, which should help, and you can always have your mechs painted per your unit/faction to differentiate, but there isn't much else that PGI can do with how diverse the populace is.

[Devillin]

A thought I just had was this. If they are going to allow mixed tech drops, they should restrict the mechs to the base units of their tech type. ie: Clan mechs to Stars, IS mechs to Lances. Then have the match maker allow any combination of numbers up to 12 mechs max, but any number minimum. That looks really confusing so let me put it in number examples. If 5 Clan mechs drop on one team, the match maker would either type to add another Star (for 5 more mechs), or another Lance (for 4 more mechs). If the majority of one team is IS (2 Lances [8 mechs]), then it would only add more IS mechs up to a full company (12 mechs). What you would end with are the following possibilities: 10 vs 12 (2 Stars vs 1 Company), 12 vs 12 (Company vs Company), 9 vs 10 (1 Star & 1 Lance vs 2 Stars), or 9 vs 12 (1 Star & 1 Lance vs 1 Company).

I wonder if they can make the team selector robust enough to handle something like that.

[Odanan]

Strum Wealh, on 09 February 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

I strongly suspect that it is actually Hanse Davion himself on the cover of The Sword and the Dagger.

That one really looks like Hanse, but Ardan is the main character of the book and he uses a knife in a given moment.

Strum Wealh, on 09 February 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

Hanse Davion William Shatner

FTFY

[Infrasound]

Gonna be so much butthurt interweb tears when people start dying to XL cat ears.... hahahaha

ps Im waiting for my Daishi

[Odanan]

daneiel varna, on 09 February 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

About the sword and the dagger i read that book so long ago that i can not remember what load out was in Sortek Victor , i aways accepted it as no modified one and if i remember right Patrick Kell was woonded in the Sortek's Victor and it was unmodified one .

In the book, Sortek's Victor is a stock VTR-9B.
But the mech is destroyed and later replaced by another Victor - I don't know the stats of that new one.

Infrasound, on 11 February 2014 - 04:01 AM, said:

Gonna be so much butthurt interweb tears when people start dying to XL cat ears.... hahahaha

You need to take down both side torsos to destroy a Clan XL Engine, not just one like the IS one.
Besides, maybe the Timber Wolf's side torsos hitboxes are very small and mostly limited to the ears themselves, which wouldn't be that bad.

[pbiggz]

As I said before, which mechs appear where wont be a problem. What you will likely see is incentives by certain factions to take proprietary mechs. For example, the DCMS units may be granted atlas AS7Ks, Dragons, Jenners, etc, at a decreased cost, or their pilots will gain extra loyalty or payouts provided they use that mech.

In the same way, clan warriors will have incentives to use their own tech (clan wolf might get timberwolves and direwolves cheaper, or gain extra loyalty points by using them.

What you will NOT see is hard limits to which factions can field what tech. Considering PGI is indeed running a business and selling product, it will never tell you straight up that you cannot use specific mechs because of your faction.

[CyclonerM]

pbiggz, on 11 February 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

As I said before, which mechs appear where wont be a problem. What you will likely see is incentives by certain factions to take proprietary mechs. For example, the DCMS units may be granted atlas AS7Ks, Dragons, Jenners, etc, at a decreased cost, or their pilots will gain extra loyalty or payouts provided they use that mech.

In the same way, clan warriors will have incentives to use their own tech (clan wolf might get timberwolves and direwolves cheaper, or gain extra loyalty points by using them.

What you will NOT see is hard limits to which factions can field what tech. Considering PGI is indeed running a business and selling product, it will never tell you straight up that you cannot use specific mechs because of your faction.

Yeah, because factions do not have a meaning at all in MWO.

Not saying they should restrict the 'Mechs, but at least something to prevent faction-zapping to buy the 'Mechs at the cheapest prices of the galaxy.

[pbiggz]

CyclonerM, on 11 February 2014 - 05:35 AM, said:

Yeah, because factions do not have a meaning at all in MWO.

Not saying they should restrict the 'Mechs, but at least something to prevent faction-zapping to buy the 'Mechs at the cheapest prices of the galaxy.

We have very little details on what factions will actually mean, but they WILL mean something, very soon.

[wanderer]

Quote

Remember, the goal is to make the Clan mechs -equal to- but not -better than- the Inner Sphere mechs.

Realizing that whatever else is done right, the Clan designs have to be castrated to make them "balanced" 1:1 with an IS design.

You'd have to make Clan weaponry into peashooters and spitwad dispensers and make their DHS -worse- (thanks to superior critspace) to balance out with IS 'Mechs.

1:1 balance will give you CINO designs with inferior construction choices vs IS 'Mechs.

[pbiggz]

wanderer, on 11 February 2014 - 05:57 AM, said:

Realizing that whatever else is done right, the Clan designs have to be castrated to make them "balanced" 1:1 with an IS design.

You'd have to make Clan weaponry into peashooters and spitwad dispensers and make their DHS -worse- (thanks to superior critspace) to balance out with IS 'Mechs.

1:1 balance will give you CINO designs with inferior construction choices vs IS 'Mechs.

You can achieve a 1:1 balance not by making clan mechs the SAME (which is what is often suggested) but by making them UNIQUE.

If your weaponry works in a fundamentally different, (clan-like) way, then clan technology can retain its distinctive flavour and remain truely terrifying in the field, especially in 1 on 1 combat where the clans excelled most.

"Nerf" has become a dirty word though. People think nerf, and they worry that clan tech will be totally useless. The word "alter" would better describe what must be done to make sure clan tech doesn't break this game in half.

[Pariah Devalis]

pbiggz, on 11 February 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

You can achieve a 1:1 balance not by making clan mechs the SAME (which is what is often suggested) but by making them UNIQUE.

If your weaponry works in a fundamentally different, (clan-like) way, then clan technology can retain its distinctive flavour and remain truely terrifying in the field, especially in 1 on 1 combat where the clans excelled most.

"Nerf" has become a dirty word though. People think nerf, and they worry that clan tech will be totally useless. The word "alter" would better describe what must be done to make sure clan tech doesn't break this game in half.

To compound on this, in case examples need be put out:
Laser damage is higher, burn time is longer. Net wash. LRMs can be fired at close range, but if they decide to ripple fire them then AMS acts as a solid counter even then. there are ways to sidegrade things in a Clan way.

[Odanan]

That's why I say: "Don't nerf the Clans!". (see my signature)

[Uncle Totty]

Pariah Devalis, on 11 February 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

To compound on this, in case examples need be put out:
Laser damage is higher, burn time is longer. Net wash. LRMs can be fired at close range, but if they decide to ripple fire them then AMS acts as a solid counter even then. there are ways to sidegrade things in a Clan way.

IMO, Clan missiles should fire like they did in Mech Warrior 2.