191 replies to this topic

[Catamount]

Lionsroar, on 16 September 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

I may go and buy that xps today just for the immediate gratification.....I assume it will take a week or so to order and assemble parts for a build. And I'm currently playing on a old, slow laptop, it's killing me.

Is it really worth having a machine you're not going to really be that happy with at a given budget for years just so save two days to a week?

I suggest you create your own thread, and let us discuss and put together some potential builds for you. We'll have you set up in no time, and if you're really worried about time, just stick to faster-shipping places like Amazon.

Edited by Catamount, 17 September 2014 - 08:33 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

I would never recommend Intel intergrated graphics as your only option, you'll just be throwing money away.

[ninjitsu]

Don't run integrated graphics! It's a trap!

Here's a pre-built that's got a better video card. It's still not amazing but it's the best I could find in the price range http://www.microcent...esktop_Computer

Edited by ninjitsu, 17 September 2014 - 09:33 AM.

[ninjitsu]

Merchant, on 17 September 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

Interesting.
I would like to see 2 things I have not noticed.

1 - How easy do the components work together when building? I have not built a computer since the days of 486 machines, I remember a 386 one that gave me & friends piles of problems.

2 - Is there another topic for people who want a decent cost pre-built one with minimal modification? Get the computer, video card, maybe sound card and a few extras like mice, keyboard but the motherboard & hard drive are already installed.

Computer hardware has come an extremely long way since the days of the 486. There are certain compatibility things to look at like using Intel processors with Intel motherboards. All motherboards have a list of processors they support so there's no guess work. In general, it's super easy to build your own. Usually takes me about 30 mins to get all the parts assembled.

I think the computers your thinking of are bare bones systems. I really wouldn't go that rout because I don't see any real benefit to it. Here's an example of a barebones system http://www.newegg.co...N82E16856272005

[Lord Letto]

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/rJRRnQ
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker....nQ/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($179.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock H97 PERFORMANCE ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($74.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($82.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Hitachi Ultrastar 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($48.00 @ Amazon)
Video Card: PNY GeForce GTX 650 1GB Video Card ($66.99 @ Best Buy)
Case: Thermaltake Versa H21 ATX Mid Tower Case ($34.84 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Cooler Master VSM 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($102.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $647.77
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-09-17 18:17 EDT-0400
Combo Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit)
ASRock H97 PERFORMANCE ATX LGA1150 Motherboard Discount: -$15.00 $174.98 Newegg
Combo G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory
Cooler Master VSM 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply Discount: -$18.00 $164.98 Newegg

Edited by Lord Letto, 17 September 2014 - 02:18 PM.

[Lionsroar]

First, Thank you all for your feedback and suggestions. I've been doing a little reading on the subject and have some follow up questions and ideas. I freely admit that I know next to nothing of the finer points of computer hardware.

In what I read the Intel i5-4690K that Goose used in 2 suggested builds got very good recommendations, one site said that it was definitely worth the $40 difference from it's cheaper neighbor and that the more advanced processors were significantly more expensive for little return in performace. Would you gents agree?

Next, it seems that cooling is more important to performance than I realized so money spent on a better fan is a good investment, so going with the better fan in the 2 Goose recommended, which seems to get phenominal reviews would also be money well spent. http://pcpartpicker....er-rr212e20pkr2 (and I see Letto has it on his rig)

And increasing from 4 to 8 RAM is only $30.....

I also needed to add an OS to what Goose suggested, so I'm now over $100 over budget.

I want to avoid completely blowing the budget in $20-$40 increments. It is very easy to get sucked in upgrading 4 or 5 items by $20 or $30 each and the next thing I know I'm $150 over budget. I would like to spend on better quality items that are difficult to replace-such as the processor and maybe add in easily upgraded items-like a good video card later.

At this point adding these items to the build Goose suggested, I'm at $791 if I completely hold off on a video card it would drop me to $647 If I add back in the less expensive card Letto recommended (PNY GeForce GTX 650 1GB Video Card $66.99 ) I'm at $714 which is easier to swallow than $791 although part of me balks at the idea of spending the $66 on something that I may only use for a little while and then upgrade. If I don't upgrade the RAM something I can easily do in the future then I'm around $680 which would be close to my ideal budget.

So I guess my next question would be can the game be played on that system for a while without a graphics card? Even if it's slow, I have been playing over a year on a laptop with a 2.5 ghz and 6 gb RAM and integrated intel video, so I am used to playing at slow speeds/low resolution and 10 fps. How would it run with either no video card or with the $66 PNY GTX 650?

How much of a difference does the 4 vs 8 RAM make? It is an easy enough future upgrade. If I go with one 4gb ram chip with the intent of adding more later....

Ok, so I realize that I am somewhat babbling. I appreciate your thoughts and advice. Time to go drop.

So this is the model with what I am thinking, (not sure if this will format right)



[PCPartPicker part list](http://pcpartpicker.com/p/bFXpD3) / [Price breakdown by merchant](http://pcpartpicker....D3/by_merchant/)

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
**CPU** | [Intel Core i5-4690 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor](http://pcpartpicker....u-bx80646i54690) | $221.50 @ Amazon
**CPU Cooler** | [Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler](http://pcpartpicker....er-rr212e20pkr2) | $28.65 @ OutletPC
**Motherboard** | [MSI Z97 PC MATE ATX LGA1150 Motherboard](http://pcpartpicker....board-z97pcmate) | $79.99 @ Micro Center
**Memory** | [G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 4GB (1 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory](http://pcpartpicker....312800cl9s4gbxl) | $37.80 @ Newegg
**Storage** | [Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive](http://pcpartpicker....-drive-wd10ezex) | $56.98 @ OutletPC
**Video Card** | [PNY GeForce GTX 650 1GB Video Card](http://pcpartpicker....d-vcggtx6501xpb) | $65.99 @ Best Buy
**Case** | [Cooler Master HAF 912 ATX Mid Tower Case](http://pcpartpicker....-case-rc912kkn1) | $44.99 @ Newegg
**Power Supply** | [EVGA 500W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply](http://pcpartpicker....ply-100b10500kr) | $41.13 @ Newegg
**Optical Drive** | [Asus DRW-24F1ST DVD/CD Writer](http://pcpartpicker....drive-drw24f1st) | $14.99 @ Newegg
**Operating System** | [Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit)](http://pcpartpicker....oft-os-gfc02050) | $86.98 @ OutletPC
| | **Total**
| Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available | $679.00
| Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-09-19 00:00 EDT-0400 |

[ninjitsu]

Go with 8 gigs of ram! you lose at least a gig of ram just to running your 'OS. 8 gigs is the way to go. Going with the nvidia 650 will be better than the integrated video. all in all, looks like a pretty solid build. bang for buck, the 4690 is the way to go.

[Flapdrol]

yeah, I'd go with 2x4GB instead of just one.

If you want to cut the budget, your cpu doesn't allow overclocking, so there's nothing wrong wih the stock cooler that comes with the cpu, it also means you could get a cheaper H97 motherboard (some manufacturers have hacked it, so you can still overclock on these, could get a K cpu just in case). You can also get rid of the optical drive if you have a ~8GB usb drive/stick.

Personally I'd get win8, as it might get dx12, at least has 11.2 stuff, might be useful eventually, I don't mind the startscreen, have just removed all apps and made the desktpp link bigger. I'd also get an ssd instead of the hdd, kind of depends on how much crap you plan to have on the pc.

Playing without a graphics card, dunno, probably would still run better than your laptop. Could also get a secondhand $50 gtx470 or 6870, they run this game flawlessly.

Edited by Flapdrol, 18 September 2014 - 11:47 PM.

[Lionsroar]

Thanks. Because this is the only PC game my son and I play, I keep debating how much I should spend. To spend the extra $200 or so to get a quality system, or just go with a more basic build.

[Lord Letto]

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/GWRh23
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker....23/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($209.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock H97M Anniversary Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($70.38 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Team Vulcan 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($56.98 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: MSI Radeon R7 260 1GB Video Card ($77.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Rosewill Galaxy-02 ATX Mid Tower Case ($34.00 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($44.99 @ NCIX US)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($86.98 @ OutletPC)
Total: $651.29
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-09-19 09:51 EDT-0400

[Goose]

In one of the earliest issues of PC Magazine I remember reading, it was put forth one should spring for the biggest, baddest PC one could afford, to stave off obsoleteness for as long as possible; Seeing as how bumps in CPU are few and far between now'n days, yet often include a change in motherboard socket, I'd double-down on that advice.

This game really wants a good-sized CPU; Nobody has a good guess as to what would represent balanced spending between CPU and GPU for MW:O, whereas conventional wisdom for all of PC Gaming is "all the monies in the graphics card, and an Intel i3." We are different …

I'd once heard a nVidia 660 was the minium card for this game: I can't prove it, but I've been using it as a guideline; I would not buy a 1GB card.

Skip the optical drive, thermal grease, the CPU cooler, and get $15 out of the card by dropping down to an R7 265, and what happens then?

Edited by Goose, 19 September 2014 - 12:09 PM.

[Goose]

Awh, %$# it: Intel Friday

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($209.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI Z97 PC MATE ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($79.99 @ Micro Center)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-2000 Memory ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Green 1TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($49.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R7 265 2GB Video Card ($109.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Antec Three Hundred ATX Mid Tower Case ($42.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA 430W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply ($24.99 @ NCIX US) NOPE
Total: $567.93
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-09-19 16:26 EDT-0400

Base Total: $619.93
Mail-in Rebates: -$52.00
Total: $567.93

Teh crappy stock cooler is not strong, nor quite, but it's free; A one gig HDD is already down in self-inflected territory, so it stays; I can talk myself into 4GB ram, but I don't like it. Move on that graphics card: Sales like that seem to end by the time I go to build for AMD Saturday …

Still can't find a review of the PSU, and for today only, you have to go sideways to find the ratings of the rails (lucky me.)

Spoiler

But the case, motherboard, and CPU are all worth money, and could stay the core of this system as you add fans, a cooler, up the card and PSU, etc., etc., etc., derk, etc.

Edited by Goose, 19 February 2015 - 12:18 PM.

[Goose]

http://www.tomshardw...wn-pc,2601.html

[Lord Letto]

Swapped HDD from 5400RPM to 7200RPM
2x4GB RAM
better and more powerful PSU
Case had no Front Panel USB3 to make use of the USB3 Header on the MOBO

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Hstbyc
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker....yc/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($209.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI Z97 PC MATE ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($79.99 @ Micro Center)
Memory: Team Vulcan 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital RE3 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($47.00 @ Amazon)
Video Card: XFX Radeon R7 265 2GB Video Card ($109.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair SPEC-03 White ATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($44.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $601.94
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-09-19 17:10 EDT-0400

[Goose]

AMD Saturday

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD FX-8370E 3.3GHz 8-Core Processor ($194.00 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($28.66 @ Amazon)
Thermal Compound: Noctua NT-H1 3.5g Thermal Paste ($5.57 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: ASRock 990FX Extreme3 ATX AM3+/AM3 Motherboard ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory ($76.50 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($56.98 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: HIS Radeon R9 280 3GB IceQ OC Video Card ($219.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Rosewill CHALLENGER ATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($44.99 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NSB0 DVD/CD Writer ($13.99 @ Newegg)
Case Fan: Arctic Cooling Arctic F12 74.0 CFM 120mm Fan ($3.56 @ NCIX US)
Other: FrozenCPU 3-pin Extension Cable - 48" ($13.50)
Total: $797.72
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-09-20 17:33 EDT-0400

Base Total: $845.21
Promo Discounts: -$12.49
Mail-in Rebates: -$35.00
Total: $797.72

'Picker has gotten around to adding the two FX-Es, and the FX-8370, to it's listings; I have found someone saying the FX-8370E ran cooler overclocked then the FX-8370, even though they were both at the same wattage: This speaks to me: Cooler is Better, even if the idle power draw is always the same across them quad-moduals. Was it cool enough to drop all the way back to a little Rosewill RCX-ZAIO-92? Let's not go crazy …

Then Tom's says some worrying things about mobo compatibility, and adds some insight to what the overclock might look like.

Do remember any AMD build requires overclocking and a good-sized set of tweaks to settings and the user.cfg. You've Been Warned.

I may have found a new memory kit to "Like."

Again with the thermally optim video card: The GTX 660 was the slowest card I can think of with an available blower-style cooler, and those are all moar expensive then this R9 280 $150 for $110-worth of R7 265.

Spoiler

Video Card Comparison Done Sideways
Card	Blower	Axel
PowerColor Radeon R9 280 3GB TurboDuo Video Card		$181
HIS Radeon R9 280 3GB IceQ OC Video Card	$220
XFX Radeon R7 265 2GB Video Card		$110
EVGA GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card		$150
EVGA GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card	$170

Once again I'm bending my PSU rule: No one has a review of this specific EVGA model, but I don't think I've seen a bad review yet of an EVGA supply. I am relying on the NewEgg page to tell me "the peak +12V output, across the four 20A rails, is 61A."

Spoiler

Edited by Goose, 22 September 2014 - 04:33 PM.

[Lionsroar]

Gentlemen, Thank you again for your time and effort. I'm pretty much decided and just want to get your final approval. The cost is higher but it includes everything, the optical drive, operating system, etc.

Let me know your thoughts and if it looks good I'll order the parts tonight.




[PCPartPicker part list](http://pcpartpicker.com/p/zsHFCJ) / [Price breakdown by merchant](http://pcpartpicker....CJ/by_merchant/)

Type|Item|Price
:----|:----|:----
**CPU** | [Intel Core i5-4690 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor](http://pcpartpicker....u-bx80646i54690) | $188.00 @ Amazon
**CPU Cooler** | [Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler](http://pcpartpicker....er-rr212e20pkr2) | $28.65 @ OutletPC
**Thermal Compound** | [Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver 3.5g Thermal Paste](http://pcpartpicker....al-paste-as535g) | $5.97 @ OutletPC
**Motherboard** | [ASRock H97M Anniversary Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard](http://pcpartpicker....h97manniversary) | $70.38 @ SuperBiiz
**Memory** | [Team Vulcan 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory](http://pcpartpicker....d38g1600hc9dc01) | $76.98 @ OutletPC
**Storage** | [Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive](http://pcpartpicker....-drive-wd10ezex) | $56.98 @ OutletPC
**Video Card** | [XFX Radeon R7 265 2GB Video Card](http://pcpartpicker....card-r7265acnj4) | $109.99 @ Newegg
**Case** | [Rosewill Galaxy-03 ATX Mid Tower Case](http://pcpartpicker....l-case-galaxy03) | $36.00 @ Newegg
**Power Supply** | [EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply](http://pcpartpicker....ply-110b10750vr) | $44.99 @ NCIX US
**Optical Drive** | [LG GH24NSB0 DVD/CD Writer](http://pcpartpicker....-drive-gh24nsb0) | $13.99 @ Newegg
**Operating System** | [Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit)](http://pcpartpicker....oft-os-gfc02050) | $88.98 @ OutletPC
| | **Total**
| Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available | $720.91
| Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-09-23 15:55 EDT-0400 |

[Goose]

Nice sale price on the CPU.

I suspect you don't even need that much cooler on a non-K Intel: Look up a Rosewill RCX-ZAIO-92

Memory is way too slow: Get the G.Skill stuff at the same price, a couple of posts up.

I think you can trim some cash out of that PSU: What card do you think you'll get, later, that will require so many Watts in an Intel build?

[ninjitsu]

For a cooler, check out http://www.newegg.co...N82E16835186134 It comes with arctic mx-2 already applied. I've got this on my 4670k and it works well.

I've modded it for push/pull with a couple of 120mm fans and can clock to 4.5ghz easily, mwo maxes my heat out at about 60c

[Flapdrol]

That system should do well in this game, 750W is massive overkill, but the psu is already cheap so who cares

could get a similarly priced lower wattage more efficient psu of course

Edited by Flapdrol, 23 September 2014 - 02:08 PM.

[Goose]

Moar Insight: http://www.tomshardw...ng-pc,3943.html