30 replies to this topic

[Hannibal Barka]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bea998939124561

[JC Daxion]

I do not know anything about that mech, But i will say, even for 3 launchers, you most likely will not need more than 1 ton of ammo, so that other 5 tons i would put into something else.

I have only run double streaks, but have not came close to running out.. well maybe hit 25% once.. But 3 or 4, 2 tons would be more than enough

[Malcolm Vordermark]

2 tons of streak ammo should be plenty (25 times firing all 4 launchers) I'm not sure what you want to do with all that extra weight but I recommend maxing out the center torso armor first, currently it appears to be missing 10 points.

[Victor Morson]

1: Arm ammo is a bad idea. Move it into the head/torsos; even consider CASE.
2: That is WAY too much ammo for the number of launchers..
3: You want Artemis. While not listed, it gives a 25% boost to Streak lock time.
4: You want BAP if you're running Streaks.
5: That's pretty light firepower for an Orion.
6: That's a lot of DHS, and removing them to make some other changes can let you slap Ferro in and get a big engine boost.

Try this:
Upgraded Orion

[Hannibal Barka]

I noticed the artemis changed neither the SRMs, nor their ammo. Does it actually help?

[Victor Morson]

Hannibal Barka, on 11 February 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

I noticed the artemis changed neither the SRMs, nor their ammo. Does it actually help?

Yes. It's an unlisted advantage caused by the fact Artemis speeds lock times in general - it's meant to work with the LRMs, but because the SRM/LRM share the same lock mechanic, it improves the Streak lock time by 25%.

As noted nothing changes in the build, so the only downside is a one-time cbill upgrade. Totally worthwhile.

EDIT: The general rule of thumb is ALWAYS run Artemis with missiles. It improves everything drastically for SRM and LRM, in addition to this "free" boost to Streaks. If you ever want to toy with them, you'll want Artemis installed for sure. Some people will tell you otherwise, but the group tightening effect and lock boost makes it invaluable.

Edited by Victor Morson, 11 February 2014 - 12:39 PM.

[Macksheen]

Artemis does help.

I would drop to 2 tons of ammo, possibly 3. Two more heat sinks, possibly a bigger engine - or a BAP.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Hannibal Barka, on 11 February 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

I noticed the artemis changed neither the SRMs, nor their ammo. Does it actually help?

It does. Streaks use the same lock on mechanic as LRMs and since LRMs get a faster lock on from artemis so do streaks. Its kind of a bug but its unlikely to be fixed anytime soon.

[Victor Morson]

Macksheen, on 11 February 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

Artemis does help.

I would drop to 2 tons of ammo, possibly 3. Two more heat sinks, possibly a bigger engine - or a BAP.

Yep - in the one I linked I was able to slap Ferro on due to his light weapons load out once I moved the DHS out, and get both BAP and a much higher engine stuffed with DHS in there. Still a bit light for firepower, but at least it'll be quite durable.

[Tesunie]

This is what I would probably suggest for your build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3e213ed7a62ba3c

First, I'd like to say your build seems fairly solid from what I can tell. It will run hot with the ERPPCs, but if you know how to handle that, it isn't always a bad thing.

I'd suggest removing most of the ammo you have, as I find you need 1 ton of SSRM ammo for 2 launchers. I left you with 3 tons of ammo, which should be more than enough. With the weight saved, I added in BAP, which will help when an ECM mech gets near you, letting you still get locks and be able to use those SSRMs. From there, I also placed in more Double Heat Sinks, to help keep you cooler. Then I maxed out your CT, and reduced the arm and leg armor by a tiny number to round your tonnage out (which let me place that 3 ton of ammo for you).

As far as where you can place your ammo, I don't know the Orion chassis that well personally. I know my Stalker's arms are rather safe for the most part, but I'm no so sure with the Orion. The head can be chancy, but is often times safe for ammo. The legs can be iffy with ammo, but if everywhere else gets hit too often, then the legs might still be safest, as you are a large mech and most people wont aim for your legs (and you have lots of armor in there).

I hope I have helped, and that some of these suggestions are useful to you.

Some key information:
- BAP disables enemy ECM that gets near, as well as extends your own sensor ranges. Very helpful with SSRMs.
- Artemis makes your missiles lock on faster, and adds no weight or crits to your SSRMs. This was added to make it so your SSRMs will lock faster, particularly to smaller, faster moving targets.
- ERPPCs will run you hot, be careful. But they have no minimum range on them, so use them up close if you absolutely have to.

[Victor Morson]

Tesunie, on 11 February 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

This is what I would probably suggest for your build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3e213ed7a62ba3c

If you slap the BAP in the leg you can bring that ammo into the torso, what I did with the edit. It's definitely a little safer.

[Mechteric]

Generally only 1 ton of SSRM ammo per SSRM2 launcher is sufficient.

Also like Victor said, you have a 50 tonner's weapons on your 75 ton mech, mostly due to having to have all those DHS for those 2 insanely hot ERPPCs. Unfortunately with only a few extra tons from shaving things off, you only have ballistics slots leftover and they need lots of tonnage to do anything useful with.


So what it comes down to is what do you want out of this mech? Do you want a meta 2xPPC/2xAC5 mech, or would you like a brawler with AC20 or 2xAC/5's, 3xStreaks/BAP, and a couple medium lasers? I don't think you'll be able to comfortably mount Streaks/BAP on the PPC/AC build though.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 11 February 2014 - 12:44 PM.

[Tesunie]

Victor Morson, on 11 February 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

Yep - in the one I linked I was able to slap Ferro on due to his light weapons load out once I moved the DHS out, and get both BAP and a much higher engine stuffed with DHS in there. Still a bit light for firepower, but at least it'll be quite durable.

No offense Victor, but your custom I don't see as more durable, and has even less heat efficiency than the original posters custom. He needed more cooling, and probably doesn't need the overall speed increase with his weapon ranges (optional here, as some people like just moving faster). FF doesn't save him that much weight compared to (what I see) the advantages of just having more DHS overall.

Of course, this is just a difference of opinion, but I'd rather run cooler rather than hotter if possible. Otherwise, BAP, Artemis, less ammo, all agreed on as strongly recommended changes.

[Victor Morson]

CapperDeluxe, on 11 February 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

Generally only 1 ton of SSRM ammo per SSRM2 launcher is sufficient.

Also like Victor said, you have a 50 tonner's weapons on your 75 ton mech, mostly due to having to have all those DHS for those 2 insanely hot ERPPCs. Unfortunately with only a few extra tons from shaving things off, you only have ballistics slots leftover and they need lots of tonnage to do anything useful with.


So what it comes down to is what do you want out of this mech? Do you want a meta PPC/AC5 mech, or would you like a brawler with AC20 or 2AC/5's, Streaks/BAP, and a couple medium lasers? I don't think you'll be able to comfortably mount Streaks/BAP on the PPC/AC build though.

Yep! Honestly the Orion is at it's best in mid-close range engagements and Capper definitely has the right idea about load outs. If you're not opposed to setting your 'mech up like a top tier design OP, definitely consider (U)AC5-20 for your primary weapons.

[xMintaka]

A modified version of Victor's build, to up the firepower somewhat:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...46c5a7a80647529

You can swap the AC/5 to a UAC/5 with a ton less ammo, which makes more sense since 120 rounds is an awful lot to get through.


I've found the STD295/300 to be the sweetspot for Orion's, so most of my builds tend to factor that in.

[Victor Morson]

Tesunie, on 11 February 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

No offense Victor, but your custom I don't see as more durable, and has even less heat efficiency than the original posters custom. He needed more cooling, and probably doesn't need the overall speed increase with his weapon ranges (optional here, as some people like just moving faster). FF doesn't save him that much weight compared to (what I see) the advantages of just having more DHS overall.

It's not a great Orion build in terms of being underwhelming, but he positively did not need that number of DHS in there.

The big reason I'm saying mine would be more durable is that the ammo is brought into the chest and it moves almost a full 10 kph faster than the 300 engine. That is where the Ferro weight is going to, and it makes a huge, huge difference for a build like this.

[Tesunie]

Victor Morson, on 11 February 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

If you slap the BAP in the leg you can bring that ammo into the torso, what I did with the edit. It's definitely a little safer.

I can see this. Of course, end placement of exact items is subject to taste. Honestly though, I should have moved the BAP into the CT, as it's got the 2 crits needed right there for it. That would mean it should (within reason) be with him till he dies.

As far as Ammo goes, I just don't know this mech that well. I don't know where it tends to take damage, so I can't overly suggest any safe spots for ammo. The side torso might be safe, or might be a danger zone (like the Stalker, it would be a danger zone in my opinion). The arms might very well be safe, I just don't know personally. I don't own an Orion, and honestly don't feel interested in them myself...

[Victor Morson]

Lunatech, on 11 February 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

A modified version of Victor's build, to up the firepower somewhat:

I strongly endorse upping the firepower on that build. I only updated it while keeping the spirit of the original intact; I don't in anyway recommend an Orion with just 2 PPCs & 3 Streak/2s. Really I don't recommend any Orion running less than Ultras or an AC/20.

[Modo44]

You can cram 19 DHS in there and be really cool. 14 DHS for dual ERPPC is just silly.

[Victor Morson]

Modo44, on 11 February 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

You can cram 19 DHS in there and be really cool. 14 DHS for dual ERPPC is just silly.

I think the unspoken truth is that "If you want to run PPCs with tons of DHS, you should probably buy a Battlemaster instead" here, heh

Get a nice XL 375-400, slap Endo+Ferro+XL in there and 4 PPCs and fire all day on a 2-2 pattern. If Ghost Heat ever dies this would even be a competitive setup.

Edited by Victor Morson, 11 February 2014 - 12:51 PM.