43 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 February 2014 - 02:32 AM, said:

An while you do I kill 3 yo homies!

not my Homies yo, G! My homies all roll blinged out Embers too, and be shooting you in da pootube wit me!

[Joseph Mallan]

Yo dog, I remember have fun Cappin clowns who thought sportin FLAMERS WAS DA BOMB! And I killed em using Gauss!

[Deathz Jester]

Andross Deverow, on 11 February 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

I think you guys do ok for the most part but..... Your weapon balancing pretty much sucks... Everything goes from one extreme to another every time we turn around its a new meta. Aim your nerf gun back at the Machine gun.... reduce the crit rate a bit. It is the new boated brawling weapon.

Regards

Why you're probably wrong

See Points 3 & 5

[gasmaskcowboy]

[Willard Phule]

Looks like someone got killed by the Firestarter and is a bit upset by it.

MGs are really ONLY good for "critseeking" and you've got to have several mounted to even make that work halfway.....AND you've got to breach the armor with something bigger before you start plinking inside in the first place.

Once upon a time, in a match far, far away...I took a Jagermech that had 2 Large Pulse Lasers and 6 Machineguns into Terra Therma. It was a fun match. Every time I got behind them, I opened up their backs like a can opener and went searching for their internals with a whole lot of "rat-a-tat-tat."

Then they nerfed the MGs. I haven't used that build since.

The end.

[PhoenixFire55]

Crits are as they are supposed to be, but MGs shouldn't damage armor.

[Willard Phule]

PhoenixFire55, on 12 February 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

Crits are as they are supposed to be, but MGs shouldn't damage armor.

Untrue. Even in BT, MGs do damage to armor. Granted....they do 2 points (Standard MG) per turn per MG. Not really enough to matter, but if you've got enough, it makes a difference. Think of it as a sandblaster. Eventually, it'll make it through....if you're stupid enough to stand still and let the guy with the MGs do it, of course.

[PhoenixFire55]

Willard Phule, on 12 February 2014 - 05:54 AM, said:

Untrue. Even in BT, MGs do damage to armor. Granted....they do 2 points (Standard MG) per turn per MG. Not really enough to matter, but if you've got enough, it makes a difference. Think of it as a sandblaster. Eventually, it'll make it through....if you're stupid enough to stand still and let the guy with the MGs do it, of course.

They shouldn't even in BT. Because you can build a mech with 24 MGs in BT and thats 48 damage per turn with no heat.

In MWO a bloody unhittable spider with 4 MGs will tear an assault mech into pieces provided he is a good pilot, because its impossible to miss an assault mech at 90m range. As I said, I got no problems with MG damage and MG crits, but when two spiders with 4 MG each kill a nearly fresh Atlas that does know how to torso twist in 20 seconds you know its not right.

[SI The Joker]

RE The OP:

Man... I hate Ember packs and their machine gun madness against the legs of... well... everyone... juuuust as much as the next guy... but nerf MGs?

2 solutions:

1. Use leg armor. I know... who'd have thought of that? You're welcome. I expect a check next week.

2. Use teamwork. Hey that locust that just screamed by? You may not want to chase that guy in your Victor because he's going to lead you right into the Arms of Ember (that's trademarked, btw - no thievery! - lol) and when picked up by a 4 man of Embers... when they put you down, it won't be pretty.

Here's a bonus tip:

Lasers are in the arms... remove the arms, padawan.

--------------------------------------------------------

Separate response to this:

PhoenixFire55, on 12 February 2014 - 06:06 AM, said:

They shouldn't even in BT. Because you can build a mech with 24 MGs in BT and thats 48 damage per turn with no heat.

In MWO a bloody unhittable spider with 4 MGs will tear an assault mech into pieces provided he is a good pilot, because its impossible to miss an assault mech at 90m range. As I said, I got no problems with MG damage and MG crits, but when two spiders with 4 MG each kill a nearly fresh Atlas that does know how to torso twist in 20 seconds you know its not right.

That's not a problem with MGs though, that's a problem with hit registration on a spider, which contrary to what PGI says... is a real problem. I don't care what their "metrics" or "telemetry" says. Check your processes to gather telemetry because they or your analysis of the data they produce is wrong.

Edited by SI The Joker, 12 February 2014 - 06:23 AM.

[Willard Phule]

PhoenixFire55, on 12 February 2014 - 06:06 AM, said:

They shouldn't even in BT. Because you can build a mech with 24 MGs in BT and thats 48 damage per turn with no heat.

Ah, but what you're not taking into consideration is the RANGE.

Yes, 24 MGs is a POTENTIAL of 48 points of damage at no further than 3 hexes (90m) away. Keep in mind that POTENTIAL is the key here. There are multiple ways of handling this (MG Arrays) but the bare bones of it is that you'll have to make 24 separate "to hit" rolls....and for those that DO hit, you've got to make separate "hit location" rolls. It's not as if you're going to be doing a POTENTIAL 48 points of damage to a single location. That's the difference between MW:O and BT. You hit where the crosshairs are.

PhoenixFire55, on 12 February 2014 - 06:06 AM, said:

In MWO a bloody unhittable spider with 4 MGs will tear an assault mech into pieces provided he is a good pilot, because its impossible to miss an assault mech at 90m range. As I said, I got no problems with MG damage and MG crits, but when two spiders with 4 MG each kill a nearly fresh Atlas that does know how to torso twist in 20 seconds you know its not right.

Different problem entirely. Try to keep in mind that the issues with the Spider being "unhittable" has to do with things not being discussed here.

As for a "good" Spider pilot being able to tear an Assault mech to pieces.....that has more to do with the skill of each pilot involved and the loadout of the Assault. If the Assault is carrying nothing but LRMs, I agree absolutely. In fact, it doesn't take a 4 MG Spider to do it. Anyone with a couple of Small Lasers could pull it off because, obviously, the Assault pilot isn't very bright.

Now, if the Assault pilot is just as good as the Spider pilot (and I really HATE to use the Spider in this example because of it's buggy hitbox issues...can we use the Firestarter instead?) and has loaded himself out appropriately, it's a completely different outcome. As an example, my Heavy Metal is loaded out with LRM30+A, 3 ML, 2 MG. Three Medium Lasers grouped with 2 Machineguns take out lights pretty quickly. I've personally put the hurt on 4MG Firestarters that have tried to circle me. But, again, that's experience and loadout.

[Nick Makiaveli]

PhoenixFire55, on 12 February 2014 - 06:06 AM, said:

They shouldn't even in BT. Because you can build a mech with 24 MGs in BT and thats 48 damage per turn with no heat.

In MWO a bloody unhittable spider with 4 MGs will tear an assault mech into pieces provided he is a good pilot, because its impossible to miss an assault mech at 90m range. As I said, I got no problems with MG damage and MG crits, but when two spiders with 4 MG each kill a nearly fresh Atlas that does know how to torso twist in 20 seconds you know its not right.

Phule is close with his answer....but MWO MGs work just about the same as TT MGs since they are hitscan weapons. That means the stream of bullets you see is just for looks...the actual damage is randomly applied to the target.

BTW, the MG Spider usually has a LL as well. Add in a newbie pilot and you think the mech should trump skill?

Let me guess you were in an Atlas when you got cored by a Spider....

[627]

lol.... better bring MGs into AC2 damage range where they belong (shortranged, of course) than nerf them back to their ol' buddy the flamer...

Edited by 627, 12 February 2014 - 01:53 PM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Nick Makiaveli, on 12 February 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

Phule is close with his answer....but MWO MGs work just about the same as TT MGs since they are hitscan weapons. That means the stream of bullets you see is just for looks...the actual damage is randomly applied to the target.

Hmm. Can you provide a link to devs post about it? I've never heard of it before to be honest and this does raise some questions, i.e. is it an 100% auto-hit mechanics when you are inside 90m etc.?

Nick Makiaveli, on 12 February 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

Let me guess you were in an Atlas when you got cored by a Spider....

No, I haven't touched my Atlases since open beta started. Spectated a guy who I know is a decent pilot.

[Nick Makiaveli]

PhoenixFire55, on 12 February 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

Hmm. Can you provide a link to devs post about it? I've never heard of it before to be honest and this does raise some questions, i.e. is it an 100% auto-hit mechanics when you are inside 90m etc.?



No, I haven't touched my Atlases since open beta started. Spectated a guy who I know is a decent pilot.

First sorry for being snarky....minor family drama and all that today.

On my phone to searching is a pain but its confirmed that MGs are hitscan weapons. Basically though yea if you are on target when it "fires" (similar to lasers) then you hit. Basically they work the same as a flamer...

[Joseph Mallan]

PhoenixFire55, on 12 February 2014 - 06:06 AM, said:

They shouldn't even in BT. Because you can build a mech with 24 MGs in BT and thats 48 damage per turn with no heat.

In MWO a bloody unhittable spider with 4 MGs will tear an assault mech into pieces provided he is a good pilot, because its impossible to miss an assault mech at 90m range. As I said, I got no problems with MG damage and MG crits, but when two spiders with 4 MG each kill a nearly fresh Atlas that does know how to torso twist in 20 seconds you know its not right.

In BattleTech we have Infantry, so a Mech with 24 MGs could be a Infantry slaying boat. It could wreak havok on a mech is you got inside 90 M, but knowing its strength/weakeness would dictate whether you kill it now or later.

[Willard Phule]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 February 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

In BattleTech we have Infantry, so a Mech with 24 MGs could be a Infantry slaying boat. It could wreak havok on a mech is you got inside 90 M, but knowing its strength/weakeness would dictate whether you kill it now or later.

Ayup...add to that the whole "MG Array" rule (you make one to hit roll, if you hit, you roll on the missile scatter chart to see how many actually hit a given location)...it can be quite nasty. I had a Warhawk built around 4 Clan LRM 20s in the torsos (with a smorgasbord of ammo types) and 10 MGs in each arm. They're not only good for Infantry, they're good at fast moving vehicles as well.

As for MW:O....yeah, they'll work against armor, but so slowly that you REALLY have to be distracted and/or fairly slow for someone to make them work on their own.

That having been said, let's say one of the MG lights is within MG range shooting at your back. The Spider's packing an ERLL as well as the MGs, so he's putting out 9 points of damage as well as the 4 points per second from the MG for a total of 13.

That bloody Ember has 4 MLs on it....he's kicking out 20 points of damage plus the 4 per second from the MG. If you stand still for him, he's gonna core you fast.

[PhoenixFire55]

Nick Makiaveli, on 12 February 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

First sorry for being snarky....minor family drama and all that today.

No worries.

Nick Makiaveli, on 12 February 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

On my phone to searching is a pain but its confirmed that MGs are hitscan weapons. Basically though yea if you are on target when it "fires" (similar to lasers) then you hit. Basically they work the same as a flamer...

Good to know then. No rush, just throw me a link at your convenience.

Edit:damn grammer again

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 12 February 2014 - 07:55 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Don't forget, MGs also have that awful cone of fire, so you can't even hit where you are aiming (exclusively).

When using them, pretend they are lasers, they have the same 2x range and are hitscan. They in no way need a nerf, perhaps even a small buff.

And a second variant meant for damage, with very little crit-chance.

[Trauglodyte]

MGs alone are quite a joke. Even 4 of them on a Locust, Spider, Ember, Cicada, or Jaeger are a joke. It's more of what happens when they're combined with incoming damage. The Spider circling me isn't a worry. But, the Large Laser and his friends shooting me does cause a problem.

[Lyzveeyeh]

That's really the problem right. MGs were balanced fine until they created a light mech with 8 goddam hardpoints and broke the balance again.