9 replies to this topic

[Ainthe]

I recently confirmed this with a MechWarrior GameMaster.

Currently, chain firing (4) LRM5 will land more missles then firing (1) LRM20 versus an AMS system. More specifically (4) LRM5 will deal more damage to a target with AMS then (1) LRM20.

This is by design, as AMS has a innate delay each time it engages a new volley of missles.

LRM5
Damage: 5.50 x 4 = 22.00
Heat: 2.0 x 4 = 8.0
Cooldown: 3.25
Weight: 2.0 x 4 = 8.0
Slots: 1 x 4 = 4

LRM20
Damage: 22.00
Heat: 6.0
Cooldown: 4.75
Weight: 10.0
Slots: 5

The only advantage of a LRM20 versus (4) LRM5 is only with heat. ie. 6.0 vs 8.0

Accepting the weakness of LRM20 to AMS, LRM5 are superior in damage, cooldown, weight and internal slots.

Personally, I think LRM20 should be superior in damage to (4) LRM5.

I was wondering what are your opinions on this. Please discuss.

[Duncan Fisher]

Well 4 LRM5 requires 4 missile hardpoints, which is a cost in itself.. maybe the weapons are still inherently unbalanced with each other, but it's not like 4 LRM5 obsoletes LRM20 since only certain mechs can run the former.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

It's all about the hardpoints. You lose a lot upgrading to larger launchers, but when you have limited hardpoints and still want a decent throw weight then you have to go big or go home.

As for 4x LRM5s, you're probably better off firing all four at once to maximize throw weight and dps, unless you plan on using them for CC rather than damage - assuming AMS flags volleys based on launcher, of course (if it uses some kind of proximity measure to decide what constitues a volley, then maybe putting an LRM20 in a 10-tube launcher is good enough to force the AMS to reacquire). If the target lacks AMS, then single-volley launches will be an unmitigated damage increase.

[Craig Steele]

Personally I find LRM 15's to be more effective than 20's on most mechs, I can get 3 15's for the weight of 2 20's and whether I chain fire or not, that extra 5 missiles seems a big advantage in dmg output.

But will admit I don't use multiple 5's at all.

[MischiefSC]

3x15, 1x10 fits on most the big-boys. Get the Artemis or you're wasting ammo tonnage. If you've got more than 4 tons of ammo then you're better off doing Artemis to get almost 2x the hit efficiency out of the ammo you do have in return for +1 ton/crit space per launcher.

Faster cycle time + splitting into two launch groups makes 15s = all around better than 20s.

5s.... 5s are for trolling. If someone has LRM5s on anything but an A1, they're trolling.

If someone has 6x5s on an A1 - they're super-trolling. It's the waterfall of LRMs and endless, rage-inducing cockpit shake.

[WILL WORK FOR AMMO]

LRM boat here.

In addition to hardpoints, it is also about the amount of heat you're willing to generate and, in turn, the maximum firing length you want before you shut down. If you wanted turn that 4 LRM5s into a more comparable LRM20, you'd pad it with more heat sinks, because the amount of heat per second generated by 4 LRM5s is around twice as much as that of a single LRM 20.

I used to run 6 LRM5 on an A1 until I started making spreadsheets detailing firing length, DPS, HPS, slots, and tonnage accounting for the heat sinks I could fit with different configurations. That's the main reason I switched over to 4 LRM5s and 2 LRM15s, because I could lose heat sinks yet still fire for a considerable amount of time, do decent damage, and fit 1800 ammo while using an XL300.

Factoring AMS into this, I can do considerably more damage to a target with AMS than when I had 6 LRM5s just by timing my weapons.

tl;dr Chassis (hardpoints, tonnage, slots) and personal preference fit into your decision to take up larger LRMs over a bunch of smaller ones.

Edited by WILL WORK FOR AMMO, 11 February 2014 - 10:43 PM.

[Craig Steele]

MischiefSC, on 11 February 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

3x15, 1x10 fits on most the big-boys. Get the Artemis or you're wasting ammo tonnage. If you've got more than 4 tons of ammo then you're better off doing Artemis to get almost 2x the hit efficiency out of the ammo you do have in return for +1 ton/crit space per launcher.

Faster cycle time + splitting into two launch groups makes 15s = all around better than 20s.

5s.... 5s are for trolling. If someone has LRM5s on anything but an A1, they're trolling.

If someone has 6x5s on an A1 - they're super-trolling. It's the waterfall of LRMs and endless, rage-inducing cockpit shake.

My friend runs something like this on a Kintaro Golden Boy.

He likes to give his enemies a 'golden shower' as he puts it.

[LoneMaverick]

Craig Steele, on 11 February 2014 - 11:21 PM, said:

My friend runs something like this on a Kintaro Golden Boy.

He likes to give his enemies a 'golden shower' as he puts it.

I actually run 5XLRM5 and 2LLAS on my KTO-18 when I don't feel like streakboating it, and it actually puts out some impressive numbers.

Let alone the amount of giggles I get watching people run for the hills as soon as I start hucking those LRMs at them, I run 1000 LRMs...so hell I dumbfire the things at people if there's ECM, you can't stop the rain!

On Topic :

Without even seeing the numbers, it doesn't really surprise me that LRM5s land more hits...and where you want them even.

From using both methods 5's just feel more effective when using them on someone, than hoping and praying your LRM40 shot hits something, and does more than splash their whole body for little damage.

Edited by LoneMaverick, 12 February 2014 - 03:07 AM.

[Willard Phule]

Ainthe, on 11 February 2014 - 10:01 PM, said:

I recently confirmed this with a MechWarrior GameMaster.

Currently, chain firing (4) LRM5 will land more missles then firing (1) LRM20 versus an AMS system. More specifically (4) LRM5 will deal more damage to a target with AMS then (1) LRM20.

This is by design, as AMS has a innate delay each time it engages a new volley of missles.

LRM5
Damage: 5.50 x 4 = 22.00
Heat: 2.0 x 4 = 8.0
Cooldown: 3.25
Weight: 2.0 x 4 = 8.0
Slots: 1 x 4 = 4

LRM20
Damage: 22.00
Heat: 6.0
Cooldown: 4.75
Weight: 10.0
Slots: 5

The only advantage of a LRM20 versus (4) LRM5 is only with heat. ie. 6.0 vs 8.0

Accepting the weakness of LRM20 to AMS, LRM5 are superior in damage, cooldown, weight and internal slots.

Personally, I think LRM20 should be superior in damage to (4) LRM5.

I was wondering what are your opinions on this. Please discuss.

I can't tell you for certain why this is but I saw on a thread somewhere where one of the Developers explained that "AMS does 3.5 points of damage per second to a cluster of missiles."

That being said, assuming your chain of LRM5s is coming out pretty close to one another, it's probably busy engaging the first group (and maybe the second) by the time the rest of them pile in.

I can tell you, however, that what seems to be the "sweet spot" for me is LRM30+A. Two LRM15+As are more than a single AMS can deal with. But, on my Highlanders, it tends to be an LRM20+A and an LRM10+A....which works out even better.

I get a cloud of 30 on the first strike and, if I hold the fire button down, it goes into a "chain fire" mode all by itself putting 10, then 20 missiles in the air. The 10 tends to run interference for the 20...and I get a LOT of components destroyed bonuses with it.

[Ngamok]

Willard Phule, on 12 February 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

I can't tell you for certain why this is but I saw on a thread somewhere where one of the Developers explained that "AMS does 3.5 points of damage per second to a cluster of missiles."

That being said, assuming your chain of LRM5s is coming out pretty close to one another, it's probably busy engaging the first group (and maybe the second) by the time the rest of them pile in.

I can tell you, however, that what seems to be the "sweet spot" for me is LRM30+A. Two LRM15+As are more than a single AMS can deal with. But, on my Highlanders, it tends to be an LRM20+A and an LRM10+A....which works out even better.

I get a cloud of 30 on the first strike and, if I hold the fire button down, it goes into a "chain fire" mode all by itself putting 10, then 20 missiles in the air. The 10 tends to run interference for the 20...and I get a LOT of components destroyed bonuses with it.

Dual AMS mechs pretty much ruin LRM5s. Of course you'll run out of AMS ammo fast. I am leveling an STK-5S atm with 2 tons of AMS ammo and my Dual AMS swats lots of LRMs out of the sky. Thinking about putting in the increased range AMS module in it so I can start shooting them out father.