42 replies to this topic

[Artgathan]

While this may not be the sort of fix that most players are asking for, I think buffing SRM ammunition in line with all the other ammo types is warranted. Currently SRMs are the only ammunition-using weapon that using their TT ammunition value. Every other weapon has received a 40-50% increase.

This won't be a huge change for SRMs, but it will help their viability somewhat.

[ShotgunWillie]

I thought the problem was SRM hit detection being terrible. Like less than 50% of hits being detected on stationary targets even with a low ping terrible. Doesn't matter how many shots you carry/fire if the hits aren't being detected.

[Sandpit]

ShotgunWillie, on 12 February 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

I thought the problem was SRM hit detection being terrible. Like less than 50% of hits being detected on stationary targets even with a low ping terrible. Doesn't matter how many shots you carry/fire if the hits aren't being detected.

I've noticed something lately and I'm trying to grab more data on it. I noticed it on a ballistic mech I was running. I had 3 AC10s and noticed that even though I wasn't registering a hit (reticle turning red) I was dead on the target and figured it was just hit registration. I only had the issue when I would fire them in close succession on chain fire. Then at the end of the match I noticed my damage was over 700. Given the amount of damage I did it didn't look like I could have missed that many shots and done that much damage.

So I'm wondering if it's just an issue with the client not showing the hits even if the server is registering them. SRMs would definitely have this issue as they're short range and fire in large groups a lot of times. If you or anyone you know runs SRM builds please pass that on and see if they can help collect some data on it. If this is the case then SRMs aren't actually suffering from hit registration issues but just look like they do. It will take a few players paying very close attention and actually tracking some stats. If you or anyone you know are willing to do this I'd be grateful for the data to take a look at.

I'm not saying this is the case with SRMs but it's a possibility

[Coralld]

Sandpit, on 12 February 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

I've noticed something lately and I'm trying to grab more data on it. I noticed it on a ballistic mech I was running. I had 3 AC10s and noticed that even though I wasn't registering a hit (reticle turning red) I was dead on the target and figured it was just hit registration. I only had the issue when I would fire them in close succession on chain fire. Then at the end of the match I noticed my damage was over 700. Given the amount of damage I did it didn't look like I could have missed that many shots and done that much damage.

So I'm wondering if it's just an issue with the client not showing the hits even if the server is registering them. SRMs would definitely have this issue as they're short range and fire in large groups a lot of times. If you or anyone you know runs SRM builds please pass that on and see if they can help collect some data on it. If this is the case then SRMs aren't actually suffering from hit registration issues but just look like they do. It will take a few players paying very close attention and actually tracking some stats. If you or anyone you know are willing to do this I'd be grateful for the data to take a look at.

I'm not saying this is the case with SRMs but it's a possibility

I have 3 mechs that have SRM swarms, my Cicada-X5, Shadowhawk-2D2, and Victor-9S. What you point out is half right from my experience, but I don't think its that the game is not showing the damage properly on the paper dall but rather SRM hit detection issues is indeed linked to the number fired at a time.
Example, my X5 has 2x SRM6s but can only fire 2 missile at a time per missile hardpoint because of the number of tubes, where as my Victor with its 2x SRM4s and SRM6 can be fired almost all at once sense it has more tubes. Now having said that, I find I am doing more/accurate damage with my X5 with its 2x SRM6s and firing 2 at a time vs my Victor and its capability to fire significantly more missiles all at once.
True with SRM hit detection, when it works properly with my Victor, is flat out brutal. Sadly it is not very reliable though, where as my Cicada X5 doesn't appear to suffer the hit detection issues anywhere near as badly as my Victor and thus far more reliable.

Will try to do more test though when I can.

Edited by Coralld, 12 February 2014 - 06:03 PM.

[Sandpit]

Coralld, on 12 February 2014 - 05:57 PM, said:

I have 3 mechs that have SRM swarms, my Cicada-X5, Shadowhawk-2D2, and Victor-9S. What you point out is half right from my experience, but I don't think its that the game is not showing the damage properly on the paper dall but rather SRM hit detection issues is indeed linked to the number fired at a time.
Example, my X5 has 2x SRM6s but can only fire 2 missile at a time per missile hardpoint because of the number of tubes, where as my Victor with its 2x SRM4s and SRM6 can be fired almost all at once sense it has more tubes. Now having said that, I find I am doing more/accurate damage with my X5 with its 2x SRM6s and firing 2 at a time vs my Victor and its capability to fire significantly more missiles all at once.
True with SRM hit detection, when it works properly with my Victor, is flat out brutal. Sadly it is not very reliable though, where as my Cicada X5 doesn't appear to suffer the hit detection issues anywhere near as badly as my Victor and thus far more reliable.

Will try to do more test though when I can.

Yea I don't think it is the entire issue but it may play into it some which would mean they're not quite as bad as we thought. I'm going to test it out some more this weekend. I'm trying to earn cash to buy and master phracts right now. I'm hoping we can get afew players testing it out and see if that's at least playing into it a bit

[Khobai]

SRM ammo buff makes sense.

ACs get 40% more ammo per ton
LRMs get 50% more ammo per ton

So it would make sense if SRMs got 144 ammo per ton (144 is divisible by 2, 4, and 6).

[wanderer]

SRMs are broken right now. Till they fix them actually hitting (and perhaps fix splash damage as well, which SRMs did before it was realized to be massively overdoing their damage), altering the raw stats is kinda silly.

[Coralld]

Sandpit, on 12 February 2014 - 06:23 PM, said:

Yea I don't think it is the entire issue but it may play into it some which would mean they're not quite as bad as we thought. I'm going to test it out some more this weekend. I'm trying to earn cash to buy and master phracts right now. I'm hoping we can get afew players testing it out and see if that's at least playing into it a bit

I'm off tomorrow so I can do some more SRM testing. Will let you guys know if I find anything. However I still need to finish my Thunderbolts, almost done with my 3rd one so I can Elite my 5S. Shouldn't take to long unless the MM gods decide for me and my team to be the sacrificial lambs for the day.

[Sandpit]

Coralld, on 12 February 2014 - 07:17 PM, said:

I'm off tomorrow so I can do some more SRM testing. Will let you guys know if I find anything. However I still need to finish my Thunderbolts, almost done with my 3rd one so I can Elite my 5S. Shouldn't take to long unless the MM gods decide for me and my team to be the sacrificial lambs for the day.

Thank you sir! I'm hoping this might be part of the issue, if so we might be able to help them iron out SRMs

[Prezimonto]

Sandpit, on 12 February 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

I've noticed something lately and I'm trying to grab more data on it. I noticed it on a ballistic mech I was running. I had 3 AC10s and noticed that even though I wasn't registering a hit (reticle turning red) I was dead on the target and figured it was just hit registration. I only had the issue when I would fire them in close succession on chain fire. Then at the end of the match I noticed my damage was over 700. Given the amount of damage I did it didn't look like I could have missed that many shots and done that much damage.

So I'm wondering if it's just an issue with the client not showing the hits even if the server is registering them. SRMs would definitely have this issue as they're short range and fire in large groups a lot of times. If you or anyone you know runs SRM builds please pass that on and see if they can help collect some data on it. If this is the case then SRMs aren't actually suffering from hit registration issues but just look like they do. It will take a few players paying very close attention and actually tracking some stats. If you or anyone you know are willing to do this I'd be grateful for the data to take a look at.

I'm not saying this is the case with SRMs but it's a possibility

I've noticed large differences in hit registration between different mechs. So the 2D2(fired with heat penalty usually at once) and the A1(fired in trios from either side) seem to both actually hit reasonably well at 100m ranges. The Kintaro though seems to be highly ineffective, so I'm beginning to wonder if the spread of the srms is just big enough that if your hard points are spread across both arms/torso's you'll have a much harder time dishing a big hit, than if group them on the same side.

The Kintaro also suffers from the CT bay door, which lags the shots from that cluster relative to the rest of the hard points.

[Mcgral18]

Prezimonto, on 12 February 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

The Kintaro also suffers from the CT bay door, which lags the shots from that cluster relative to the rest of the hard points.

Have you tried opening the doors and see if you got the same result? I've heard that chainfiring got better hitreg, but I personally havn't noticed a difference.

[Sandpit]

I don't even know if it will apply to SRMs but I figured it would be a chance for us to check it out

[and zero]

Sandpit, on 12 February 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

I've noticed something lately and I'm trying to grab more data on it. I noticed it on a ballistic mech I was running. I had 3 AC10s and noticed that even though I wasn't registering a hit (reticle turning red) I was dead on the target and figured it was just hit registration. I only had the issue when I would fire them in close succession on chain fire. Then at the end of the match I noticed my damage was over 700. Given the amount of damage I did it didn't look like I could have missed that many shots and done that much damage.

So I'm wondering if it's just an issue with the client not showing the hits even if the server is registering them. SRMs would definitely have this issue as they're short range and fire in large groups a lot of times. If you or anyone you know runs SRM builds please pass that on and see if they can help collect some data on it. If this is the case then SRMs aren't actually suffering from hit registration issues but just look like they do. It will take a few players paying very close attention and actually tracking some stats. If you or anyone you know are willing to do this I'd be grateful for the data to take a look at.

I'm not saying this is the case with SRMs but it's a possibility

This is a great point that I have been meaning to post explaining, but I honestly just dont give a shit that much anymore

Sandpit is correct. And this is occurring. I have been tracking this issue as well. I also often have the issue where my own mechs paper doll will often not update right away.

However, and rather unfortunately, this is definitely not the entire issue. It is also simply shit hit detection in general. It is the worst with srms. But I have also experimented with an ac20 lately and found major issues there as well. About 1 in every 4 perfect, close range, low speed shots missing. Which is quite absurd. And I am positive about this as I have not being firing other weapons and pay very close attention to the ac 20 rounds :/

With the srms, I have been doing the math some games. A well representative example is a game with an srm stalker.

500 rounds. 19.23 full volleys. Should be about 1,000 damage. I make sure the matches Ive counted that I pay attention if I miss. So 1k damage. Minus, generously, 100 for misses on my part. Minus 150 for energy weapon damage. So about 750 damage. that is an average example of a few matches. The stats showed low 500's each time. And those were good games the other night. The night before I only recorded about 50% of the damage I had earned across 4 matches :/

So overall, Sandpit shows a valid and interesting problem, but the hits registering is also one too :/

[Deathlike]

Khobai, on 12 February 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

So it would make sense if SRMs got 144 ammo per ton (144 is divisible by 2, 4, and 6).

I am amenable to buffing SRM ammo to 120 first, before we goto 144.

I've heard that chainfire for a while improves SRM hit detection a while ago, so I think there is some credence to chainfiring over one big alpha. Same could be said for Streaks too.

[MischiefSC]

I'm playing with the whole SRM issue right now. BM 1S, 4xSRM6A + 2 LL.

When I group-fire I do moderate damage. When I do two sets of moderate damage each.

Are my missiles spoiling each other? Perhaps the SRMs are literally hitting each other in flight? Remember the issue with the doors, where it would shoot the missiles into your own missile door and register that hit but not show it? What if that's sorta what's going on here, the missiles are spoiling each others flight paths?

Especially if they're launched from the same location? The BM has one on each arm and two on the RT. Imma play with that a bit.

Edited by MischiefSC, 12 February 2014 - 10:27 PM.

[627]

Deathlike, on 12 February 2014 - 10:14 PM, said:

I am amenable to buffing SRM ammo to 120 first, before we goto 144.

I've heard that chainfire for a while improves SRM hit detection a while ago, so I think there is some credence to chainfiring over one big alpha. Same could be said for Streaks too.

chainfire helped me with SRMs, especialy if you take big packs like 3xSRM4 or 3xSRM6.

I often had it that I'm in the back of an assault and fired 3xASRM4 into it. If fired at once I have inconsistent results, sometimes he had orange internals, sometimes the armor had some scratches.
Firing in chain takes a bit longer but damage is more reliable imho.

Of course you never know how much back armor there is (besides shooting trial mechs for comparision) but over time it really seems to help to chain SRMs. (don't bother to chain SRM2s, though).


For the ammo count, I think 120 would be a good start, too.

[MischiefSC]

Update -

You know, I really think it has to do with missile collision or at least proximity of the launchers. While SRMs still suck compared to PPCs and ACs if I fire the arms together (far apart launchers) and the torso launchers separate (much closer launchers) I'm getting pretty solid hit detection. 500, 600 damage per match consistently. Not a lot of kills because, again, SRMs are crap compared to PPCs and ACs, but at least I'm getting more reliable performance. Lemme do 10 more matches this way so I've got a decent performance spread.

[NextGame]

saving a ton or 2 of ammunition on a useless weapon wont make it any less useless. SRM's are bad to the point that I don't take more than a couple of tons of ammo as it is on the few mechs I still have it equipped.

Edited by NextGame, 12 February 2014 - 11:19 PM.

[MischiefSC]

You know what SRMs need?

Range out to 540m. Tighten the pattern by 100% within 270, then have them spread out and explode finally at 540. Currently the short range just makes them next to useless with all their other issues.

[Sephlock]

Sandpit, on 12 February 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

I've noticed something lately and I'm trying to grab more data on it. I noticed it on a ballistic mech I was running. I had 3 AC10s and noticed that even though I wasn't registering a hit (reticle turning red) I was dead on the target and figured it was just hit registration. I only had the issue when I would fire them in close succession on chain fire. Then at the end of the match I noticed my damage was over 700. Given the amount of damage I did it didn't look like I could have missed that many shots and done that much damage.

So I'm wondering if it's just an issue with the client not showing the hits even if the server is registering them. SRMs would definitely have this issue as they're short range and fire in large groups a lot of times. If you or anyone you know runs SRM builds please pass that on and see if they can help collect some data on it. If this is the case then SRMs aren't actually suffering from hit registration issues but just look like they do. It will take a few players paying very close attention and actually tracking some stats. If you or anyone you know are willing to do this I'd be grateful for the data to take a look at.

I'm not saying this is the case with SRMs but it's a possibility

Maybe once we get private matches.