239 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

from Bryan Ekman's twitter:
@EineNeueWelt @Paul_Inouye it will most likely end up at 10 v 12 Stars vs Lances. The guys were being cautious for now.

thoughts?

[Craig Steele]

Absolute rubbish.

That means Clan tech will have to be superior to IS tech.

Players will gravitate to Clan mechs, player population is mostly Clan, we fight over Pentagon and Clan space, IS warfare dies.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

I am fine with this. Between the Omnimech limitations and reducing the raw superiority of Clan weapons, binary v company should work out just fine (though I expect them to start out with 12v12 just to see how it works out before moving to 12v12).

[Craig Steele]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 12 February 2014 - 09:39 PM, said:

I am fine with this. Between the Omnimech limitations and reducing the raw superiority of Clan weapons, binary v company should work out just fine (though I expect them to start out with 12v12 just to see how it works out before moving to 12v12).

Except it won't be 10 vs 12, it will be 10 vs 10.

Who is going to WANT to go into a battle with a mech / tech disadvantage? Especially PUG's or small teams who know that they will rely on team mates to cover the technology gap.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Craig Steele, on 12 February 2014 - 09:41 PM, said:

Except it won't be 10 vs 12, it will be 10 vs 10.

Who is going to WANT to go into a battle with a mech / tech disadvantage? Especially PUG's or small teams who know that they will rely on team mates to cover the technology gap.

I assume you mean everyone will be a Clanner and so everyone will be in a binary?

I know I for one will be IS the whole way, and there are a great many like me. Plus there will be an even larger number who will play both, whether because they enjoy both or because they fall for the sunk cost fallacy (a very powerful one).

[Triordinant]

10 vs.12 (Binary vs. Company) sounds about right. Probably to balance out Clan-only weapons like ER medium lasers, Clan LRMs and UAC 20s.

[Craig Steele]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 12 February 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

I assume you mean everyone will be a Clanner and so everyone will be in a binary?

I know I for one will be IS the whole way, and there are a great many like me. Plus there will be an even larger number who will play both, whether because they enjoy both or because they fall for the sunk cost fallacy (a very powerful one).

Yup, there will certainly be a few who "stay true" so to speak but the majority of people are playing competitivily here (as in, they play to win) and so if Clan Tech is "better" they will opt for it more times than not.

Then there will be the players that want to play IS but the queue times are forever so they start playing Clan just to get a game in.

I suspect all those people who spent bucket loads on IS mechs will have limited opportunity to play with them if this comes about.

[Bhael Fire]

Stars vs Lances is the only way to do it.

Properly, that is...

[MischiefSC]

A star is five mechs, a lance is four mechs. Are you saying there should be five clan mechs for every four IS mech?

As to balancing....

I expect clan balancing to be horrible. I expect some of them to be god-tier (poptart Highlander) while most are trash even compared to IS mechs (Dragon/Awesome) and I expect their weapons to be the same. There will be some clan weapon combo that will LURMAPOCALYPSE the whole thing up and I expect some of the balance issues to take a year or two to even start to get addressed.

I look to the release of clan mechs with absolute dread. We don't even have working SRMs and the PPC/AC meta has spent a year in absolute domination. They're about to double the weapons, introducing clan tech to the game and new mechs with a new build concept. I expect it to be buggered so badly that it will utterly skew the game.

I also expect these issues to remain and people to be told no, no it's fine and working as intended and not as bad as anyone is saying - until someone abuses knockdown to pretty much troll one of the devs for 5 or 10 minutes. Then, suddenly, it'll be fixed in the next patch.

[GalaxyBluestar]

MischiefSC, on 12 February 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

A star is five mechs, a lance is four mechs. Are you saying there should be five clan mechs for every four IS mech?

we're talking about 2 stars [10] vs 3 lances [12] so.... no IS outnumber clans as it should be {i'd prefer 2stars vs 4 lances myself}

Craig Steele, on 12 February 2014 - 09:37 PM, said:

Absolute rubbish.

That means Clan tech will have to be superior to IS tech.

Players will gravitate to Clan mechs, player population is mostly Clan, we fight over Pentagon and Clan space, IS warfare dies.

so many people think tech is worth it, try using that tech against 2 or 3 people at once and it won't save you especially when yo'll have simillar armour values anyways.

so thoughts?

should i believe this...

https://twitter.com/...659678791192576

or this

https://twitter.com/...855070472515584

from a guy who said this...

Spoiler

i don't know what to believe, and we'll need more than just a greyed out tab in the UI to convince us of what will actually be happening.



by then though the clan cash grab will be gone. time to be truthefull and decisive PGI.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 12 February 2014 - 11:31 PM.

[NextGame]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 February 2014 - 09:34 PM, said:

from Bryan Ekman's twitter:
@EineNeueWelt @Paul_Inouye it will most likely end up at 10 v 12 Stars vs Lances. The guys were being cautious for now.

thoughts?

Just another layer of messy abstract notions on top of the implementation of clans.

Does this now mean that IS pilots will be unable to pilot clan mechs & vice versa? or will we just get 12 v 10 all running clan or IS mechs (whatevers better). Or should they just announce now that along with mixed tech not being a thing, if someone is going to play IS factions they might as well not buy the clan pack.

It's beginning to look very arse for elbow.

[Craig Steele]

NextGame, on 12 February 2014 - 11:29 PM, said:

Just another layer of messy abstract notions on top of the implementation of clans.

Does this now mean that IS pilots will be unable to pilot clan mechs & vice versa? or will we just get 12 v 10 all running clan or IS mechs (whatevers better). Or should they just announce now that along with mixed tech not being a thing, if someone is going to play IS factions they might as well not buy the clan pack.

It's beginning to look very arse for elbow.

I suspect it reads as "Pilot any mech you want in any faction you want, but Clan mechs will go into one quere and IS into another, with MM drawing a team from each or 2 teams from within"

So we will get either 12 v 12 IS mech combat, 12 IS vs 10 Clan combat or 10 v 10 Clan mechs (which I suspect will be by far and away the majority of games).

Not sure how a group of 4 wanting to play 2 Clan and 2 IS will fit in, probably just get told no.

[GalaxyBluestar]

NextGame, on 12 February 2014 - 11:29 PM, said:

Just another layer of messy abstract notions on top of the implementation of clans.

Does this now mean that IS pilots will be unable to pilot clan mechs & vice versa? or will we just get 12 v 10 all running clan or IS mechs (whatevers better). Or should they just announce now that along with mixed tech not being a thing, if someone is going to play IS factions they might as well not buy the clan pack.

It's beginning to look very arse for elbow.

the simple solution would be for switching factions in the menu. we we're told that loyalty points need to be filled out for al factions to obtain wolf's dragoon perk.

this should be

play IS mech join IS team, selected as IS faction. = clan mechlab is locked out until you choose a different faction

play clan mech join clan team under a clan banner. = is mechlab is locked out until you choose a different faction

play lone wolf = access to both IS and clan mechs and you become "filler" on the IS or Clan team depending on which mech type you pilot. so people who payed have access to both mech types. you can only play but one at a time remeber.

but that's just the impression, god knows what will actually happen.

Craig Steele, on 12 February 2014 - 11:35 PM, said:

Not sure how a group of 4 wanting to play 2 Clan and 2 IS will fit in, probably just get told no.

this is a concern for many people...

if i was to make a solution i would, que them for the same match but they end up on opposite teams and/or skirmish mode can be the anything goes mode, assault and conquest and other modes with objectives would deny entry of such a premade.

/puts on flame suit

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 12 February 2014 - 11:40 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Okay, so how do we decide whether I am Clanner or IS?
Is Clan or IS an account-wide permanent choice, and if I want to switch between Clan and IS occassionally, I need two accounts (meaning regrinding C-Bills, General XP and what not?)
Do I get a Clan and an IS Pilot to play and can pick whether I want to play Clanner or IS before each match?

And if there really will be 10vs12:
What happens with my "non-faction-appropriate mechs" - can I salvage a Clan Mech as IS player and get to part of the 12 IS player team vs 10 Clan players? My IS team suddenly has to use 0.2 mechs less or the Clan Team gets 0.2 mechs extra (however you pull that off)?
Or does using a Clan mech mean I am assumed to be a Clanner and play for the Clan faction when I am in a Clan mech? But why the twitter rhetoric about IS players salvaging Clan mechs then?

Has PGI figured out any of that yet?

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 12 February 2014 - 11:39 PM.

[Noesis]

Check Vlog2. They specifically say that Clan vs IS will be 12 v 12 out of the gate for CW. And if it then doesn't work well will consider stars vs lances.

[Lupin]

IS vs. Clan would this not depend on the weight of both sides. Specially if both sides are mixed IS & Clan.

IS is not dead tech, and depends largely on how you use it. Clan mech just as dead if I come up behind them with ECM and shoot them in the back.

[Craig Steele]

Lupin, on 13 February 2014 - 12:50 AM, said:

IS vs. Clan would this not depend on the weight of both sides. Specially if both sides are mixed IS & Clan.

IS is not dead tech, and depends largely on how you use it. Clan mech just as dead if I come up behind them with ECM and shoot them in the back.

Unless that clan mech with more speed, more armour, more weapons and more heat sinks comes up behind you with his ecm (which weighs less) and shoots you in the back.

[Khobai]

Quote

Absolute rubbish.

That means Clan tech will have to be superior to IS tech.

Players will gravitate to Clan mechs, player population is mostly Clan, we fight over Pentagon and Clan space, IS warfare dies.

Its rubbish that superior clan tech is superior? and that stars are fighting lances? what a ridiculous assertion.

thats EXACTLY how it SHOULD be.

And no, there will be plenty of IS loyalists, not everyone will gravitate towards playing clan mechs.

[Craig Steele]

Khobai, on 13 February 2014 - 01:03 AM, said:

Its rubbish that superior clan tech is superior? and that stars are fighting lances? what a ridiculous assertion.

thats EXACTLY how it SHOULD be.

And no, there will be plenty of IS loyalists, not everyone will gravitate towards playing clan mechs.

Your deduction wasn't my assertion so label away as much as you like.

I'll be clearer.

Most players will want to play the most competitive mech every game they play.

Clan tech will need to be a superior tech base to even consider a 10 v 12 environment.

When a player chooses his mech, the majority of competitive players will choose a mech that gives them an advantage, in this case, Clan mechs.

Its got NOTHING to do with loyalties, you are confusing factions with lore. PGI are not restricting mechs to factions.

So the IS Marik guy will select his (insert Clan Mech here) to fight his Marik campaign.

As will the majority of other competitive gamers wanting to have an advantage in combat. We haven't even got out of UI yet, this is the players decision. Nothing to do with Lore, or canon or faction, or CW. Players will choose to have the strongest mech they can cause they are competitive. Think thats not true, have a look at forums and all the nerf / buff threads.

Now they enter game, along with all the other Clan mech's being piloted.

You see whats happening here. If IS tech isn't balanced to Clan's, why would people use IS.

So we end up with the majority of people playing Clan mechs. Either playing 10 v 10 (balanced see) or they struggle to find a match. Either way, Buying an IS mech now would be kinda fruitless cause they just won't have a place on the battlefield.

[Gaan Cathal]

Craig Steele, on 13 February 2014 - 01:01 AM, said:

Unless that clan mech with more speed, more armour, more weapons and more heat sinks comes up behind you with his ecm (which weighs less) and shoots you in the back.

You're behind the times. In MW:O Clan Mechs have less speed, less armour and slightly lighter weapons.

Seriously, the Summoner has less armour than a Hunchback, and both Lights will be plodding along at 97kph. Maybe half of the Clan mechs currently announced will escape being DoA, and two of them are in the same weight class.