239 replies to this topic

[3rdworld]

stjobe, on 15 February 2014 - 01:39 AM, said:

I wonder if those people would ***** and moan about not being able to e.g. play ice hockey with their friends without buying skates, pads, and a stick?

And then complain that they have to pick a side, and then that they can't score in either net.

I mean come on.

And on the "faction will not determine 'mech availability", I'm pretty sure that just means that you as a player can purchase any 'mech - not that you can drop with it in any match you like.

Your example is flawed. In this case it wouldn't be that your friends couldn't play because they didn't have skates. It would be that your friends couldn't play because they did not pre-order a certain brand of skate.

[Ozric]

It's true that mixtech goes both ways but right now we are still looking at it from PGI's balance perspective. The restrictions on Clan chassis are in part to counter the weapons, and yes of course this will need to be sorted out for mixtech to work.

It's still just a balancing game anyway, whatever way we go.

[Zerberus]

TehSBGX, on 15 February 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

Yeah and a Clan Mech can use IS weapons if it wants too, so that Nova is gonna have incredible Hardpoint Flexibility. .

(credible) Source?

Last official statement is "no mixtech", and that is not even a week past... so you`re either trolling or you`re behind the times...

[TehSBGX]

Zerberus, on 15 February 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

(credible) Source?

Last official statement is "no mixtech", and that is not even a week past... so you`re either trolling or you`re behind the times...

I was trying to explain why we should have Mix Tech. 12 v 12 with mix tech would be far easier to balance than 10 v 12 no mix tech since clan weapons are meant to have trade off so they aren't strictly better.

[Joseph Mallan]

Craig Steele, on 15 February 2014 - 06:45 AM, said:

His point was that a IS hunchback should be able to use Clan weapons.

If both mechs have access to the same weapon technology, the Nova with comparitivly less speed, armour and weight for weapons will be an inferior mech by far.

The Inner Sphere was not loading Clan tech till 3054-3058, We must wait till then.

[Noesis]

TehSBGX, on 15 February 2014 - 07:25 AM, said:

I was trying to explain why we should have Mix Tech. 12 v 12 with mix tech would be far easier to balance than 10 v 12 no mix tech since clan weapons are meant to have trade off so they aren't strictly better.

MixTech would be a nightmare to balance.

Given the differences between Omni Mech fitting rules and IS fitting rules. Trying to place equalised tech that is the same on IS would be more of a nightmare not easier.

Without it you might have to relax or even consider not really having an idea of using Omni Tech fitting for it all to fundamentally work to a balancing point. Or Clan weapons and tech becoming so heavily nerfed to be as comparative to IS tech for MixTech not to create issues.

[Joseph Mallan]

Davers, on 15 February 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

Link to a Dev comment about Clans having to bid?

Ain't one and you well know it. But We all know how the Clans are supposed to fight, I would not fault the Clanners for hedging some, but they were the Ultimate competitors and purposely used the least they thought they needed to win. If you can't be Clan you shouldn't play Clan. It is why I am Lyran!

[Fut]

wanderer, on 13 February 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

If they don't, they've pretty much shot the whole concept of factions or multiple tech trees in the head and failed community warfare before it even began. Clan 'Mechs don't belong in IS groups, IS 'Mechs don't belong in Clan ones. They do that, we have people cherrypicking the most efficient variety of pudding for the job at hand and we can watch the Clan Invasion play out with as many of the "Clan" pilots in IS 'Mechs as they are Clan ones, since that'll require nerfing Clantech into the ground and making them possess massive flaws to balance out whatever advantages they can't nerf otherwise to bring them into line.

The two should never be intergrated to begin with. Clan tech can't be put on IS 'Mechs, Clan 'Mechs should never show up in IS ranks (historically at this point, you could count on one hand the number of IS pilots in Clantech 'Mechs and have fingers left over- and they were named "Kurita" and "Steiner-Davion" - and salvaged Clan 'Mechs/war material were both impossibly rare to come by and being yoinked back to research facilities to be used to produce the 3060 advances in IS weapon tech and the first IS Omnimechs.

Clan tech needs to be balanced against itself, and numerically/tonnage balanced vs. IS forces rather than attempting to make a Clan 'Mech "equal" to a IS one. They simply can't be fielded in the same numbers, and numerical advantage is huge in MWO.

We can only hope that PGI figures all of this out before it's too late.

[Joseph Mallan]

Fut, on 15 February 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

We can only hope that PGI figures all of this out before it's too late.

Actually Fut Some of the less fortunate Home Clans did infact have Star League Vintage Mechs in their 2nd line units. Zeta Galaxy Hell's Horses for instance was given the worst equipment and won inspite of it.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 February 2014 - 07:38 AM.

[Prezimonto]

The only way I see mixed-tech happening is either:

1) Over the long term (year or more from now) bring it in slowly after the game is starting to fail to boost server numbers with new combinations of toys.

2) If they were to add an item drop scheme into the actual game play. Something like: play as the IS and win vs. the clans, and your faction will let you bid with the other players on bits of clan tech, that then becomes available for use in the IS mechs. So the Clan tech slowly filters into the IS. They could give high match score players bonuses for bidding, but also also people to contribute MC to earn bidding bonuses, give premium players a bidding bonus as well. So if you play well, for free, and save cash you'll slowly be able to pick up clan tech items on the IS side, but pay AND play and you'll pick it up quicker.

Heck, rarely drop actual components of mechs... so the IS players can oh so slowly piece together working clan mechs.

[Joseph Mallan]

House. Unit Perks. Very few Mercs got Clan Equipment at first. It went to the House, Got researched, then handed down to the most loyal, elite forces.

That is a good way to give out Clan Tech to IS players. Through House Units.

[TehSBGX]

Noesis, on 15 February 2014 - 07:30 AM, said:

MixTech would be a nightmare to balance.

Given the differences between Omni Mech fitting rules and IS fitting rules. Trying to place equalised tech that is the same on IS would be more of a nightmare not easier.

Without it you might have to relax or even consider not really having an idea of using Omni Tech fitting for it all to fundamentally work to a balancing point. Or Clan weapons and tech becoming so heavily nerfed to be as comparative to IS tech for MixTech not to create issues.

It's pretty obvious Clan weapons are gonna get nerfed to the point of being comparitive to IS weapons. So in the long run, mix tech for weapons is going to be the path of least resisitance. Because neither side will be strictly better weapon wise.

[stjobe]

Craig Steele, on 15 February 2014 - 05:28 AM, said:

Ummm, no. We wouldn't play MWO, we'd play something else more often than not. Sometimes we might, especially if it had been a while or someone was on a loosing streak, but more often we'd do something we agreed on. Maybe thats just because we have options. idk?

So let me get this straight, because the logic of it eludes me:

1. You're a group of friends who enjoy playing MWO.
2. You're all affiliated with House Marik.
3. Some of you pre-order Clan 'mechs.
4. Now unless you can all play together in a mixed unit (IS and Clan 'mechs) under the Marik banner, you'll not play at all?

That's... stupid, not to put too fine a point on it.

Craig Steele, on 15 February 2014 - 05:28 AM, said:

Yeah, I am struggling with bulk Clan mechs in IS colours in my mind, but they have clearly said in a tweet to Ed Steele (no relation) that IS pilots will have them, so, oh well. Seems like a done deal.

Lest we forget, "that was just our position at the time".

[Almond Brown]

3rdworld, on 15 February 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

Your example is flawed. In this case it wouldn't be that your friends couldn't play because they didn't have skates. It would be that your friends couldn't play because they did not pre-order a certain brand of skate.

More like. Some friends said "let's get together at Jimmy's house. All said OK but another memo went out stating that there was a very cool skating rink at Jimmy, so bring skates.

Just make sure everyone gets all the memos before gathering.

[Varent]

Noesis, on 15 February 2014 - 07:30 AM, said:

MixTech would be a nightmare to balance.

Given the differences between Omni Mech fitting rules and IS fitting rules. Trying to place equalised tech that is the same on IS would be more of a nightmare not easier.

Without it you might have to relax or even consider not really having an idea of using Omni Tech fitting for it all to fundamentally work to a balancing point. Or Clan weapons and tech becoming so heavily nerfed to be as comparative to IS tech for MixTech not to create issues.

Contemplating trying to balance a drop with mixed tech in between clans and IS is making me cringe inwardly.

[Almond Brown]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 February 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

The Inner Sphere was not loading Clan tech till 3054-3058, We must wait till then.

Yup, 2 years of intense reverse engineering of salvaged Clan Tech ensued after Tukkiyad in 3052. What mix tech would be like in reality would be taking the turret off an Abraham's A1 and field fitting it to a German Tiger tank,circa 1944, and doing so while a Tank Battle raged in immediate area. LOL!

[Joseph Mallan]

Varent, on 15 February 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

Contemplating trying to balance a drop with mixed tech in between clans and IS is making me cringe inwardly.

If you are a IS unit why do you want Clan Tech? It was always a probability that No Mixed tech would have been a reality. You want Clan Tech Make a Clan Alt... I have one.

[Almond Brown]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 February 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

House. Unit Perks. Very few Mercs got Clan Equipment at first. It went to the House, Got researched, then handed down to the most loyal, elite forces.

That is a good way to give out Clan Tech to IS players. Through House Units.

And if a House Unit finds itself a well established and loyal Merc unit, it could (somehow) allow them to drive some of their salvaged Clan gear for them.

[Varent]

Almond Brown, on 15 February 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

Yup, 2 years of intense reverse engineering of salvaged Clan Tech ensued after Tukkiyad in 3052. What mix tech would be like in reality would be taking the turret off an Abraham's A1 and field fitting it to a German Tiger tank,circa 1944, and doing so while a Tank Battle raged in immediate area. LOL!

This.

http://www.protectam.../09/doomba4.png

[Almond Brown]

TehSBGX, on 15 February 2014 - 07:46 AM, said:

It's pretty obvious Clan weapons are gonna get nerfed to the point of being comparitive to IS weapons. So in the long run, mix tech for weapons is going to be the path of least resisitance. Because neither side will be strictly better weapon wise.

If they nerfed them into samedom, then there would be no point in mixing the Tech right? What the **** is the difference, if they are the same in all respects other than one weapon has a "C" prefix...