20 replies to this topic

[xMintaka]

Good evening, all,

Tonight, I decided to spend [read: waste] my beer money on a few of the FS9 models to obtain elite skills on them before everyone and their dog has them.

Here are the builds I've come up with/stolen from around here:

FS9-K
FS9-A
FS9-S

I own the Ember as well, but that's the typical 4Mlas, 4MG build that literally every Ember I've seen runs, so I didn't bother with including it here.

I'm a few thousand XP away from Eliting the -A, which will open up the rest of the skill tree for the -S and -E which I intend to spam with GXP. So this post/thread will get updated once these little terrors are fully combat ready.

So far though, it's looking like a toss up between the JR7-F/-D and whichever FS9 you prefer. The JR7 appears to be more nimble judging by the dogfights I've gotten into tonight, but that could well be because of the lack of skills on my Firestarters.

Even so, I get the impression the Jenners will have the edge in maneuverability but that pales in comparison to the sheer firepower these little buggers can bring to the table. The FS9-K is my dedicated light hunter (not played it yet though), which brings very nearly the same firepower as the 6Mlas Jenner in the form of 8SPulses. If you can bring your torso weapons to bear along with your arm mounted lasers, this ought to absolutely destroy any other light you come across. Only time will tell though, and as I mentioned above, this thread will be updated with my thoughts as I play these builds.


Feel free to show your own builds, theorycrafted if you're not dumb enough to spend MC on them, or playtested if (like me) you were dumb enough to spend RL money. Or offer critique on these builds as you see fit. This thread is intended to incite discussion!

Edited by Lunatech, 14 February 2014 - 01:48 PM.

[1453 R]

I've actually gotten some game time in on the FS9-S, which I had the spare MC laying around for and sorta wanted really bad. I run it quite similarly to yours, save with one difference I hope very soon will be key.

Namely, as so.

Dropped a ton of AMS ammo - even just two tons has lasted me through every fight I've put in with this thing so far - for two additional jump jets, up to 4. I do wish I had room for the two extras I need to hit cap, but when jump jets finally make sense, the extra three over standard will help out quite a bit in retaining the 'Mech's agility. I do, however, quite firmly believe that 4x medium/3x small will become the Galactic Standard Armament on the FS9-S. It just makes sense, and it flows very well in matches I've run with it. The machine is almost shockingly destructive, given its almost complete immunity to enemy missile fire. Seriously - this thing with Tier 5 AMS range module, when it hits? You're going to be able to just flat out Forrest Gump-run your way straight into the teeth of some absolutely horrified STK-3F(C)s as they watch you dance through their artillery like you're Morgan Frickin' Kell.

My final Firestarter is going to be an FS9-K, as is the norm for the series, methinks. I am, however, going to be avoiding eight-strong banks of small pulse lasers and will, instead, be running an energy-boating version of the ERLL harasser Spiders with it. Replacing the SDR-5K(C)'s quadruple machine guns with sextuple small lasers doesn't actually increase the 'Mech's DPS at all...but it does offer the thing eighteen points of additional damage against any target it can close with enough to give 'em the red shiv. Sorta plays like a tiny Nova, except with nine damage in each arm instead of forty-two and a gut-mounted heavy beam for contributing to fights at distances above headbutt range. Only time will tell if this is a viable alternate configuration to the 8x SPL I feel will be a rather unpleasant dagger-fighter.

The FS9-H is mostly redundant for any FS9 pilot who bought an Ember, and the FS9-A is sort of a junkier version of the -K. An argument can be made that the -K is actually a junkier version of the -K, as it loses fewer weapons when its arms fall off, and frankly I figure the two are largely interchangeable for octo-SPL builds. The K has a definitive advantage in beam-based pseudo-Spider builds, however, which are what I'm mote interested in playing.

Hrmm...maybe I want to go burn seven bucks on that last Firestarter after all, while there's still a DXP weekend to grind it with. Curse you, Lunatech!

[xMintaka]

Certainly, should they change (fix?) how jumpjets work, your build will be the one almost everyone (including myself) will run. The extra ton of AMS ammo I included is mainly due to the "Double AMS, Double Success" video. Occasionally I indulge in sneaking up on missile boats and just sitting in their rear quarter, shooting down their missiles. Difference with this one is, when they turn they can see you. But you can also pack one heck of a wallop when you decide you're bored of shooting down missiles.

How are you fairing against streaks? I intentionally charged a couple of SHD-2D2's the other night to see what the fuss was about. Lasted a little longer than I would have in a Raven, but overall it wasn't that noticeable even when trying to keep a fair distance. Of course, that will change when more people have them and they'll run in packs of pure evil.


Your suggestion for the "K" is a very good one. Been running it while I got it through elites and it's just nasty. A lot of people seem to right off SLas from the word go. No one mentions that when they're used in large numbers they are fantastic. The short burn time is a godsend in a 'mech with legs like the FS9, and the short cooldown (plus low heat) make for numerous strafing runs one after the other. Duelled a JR7-F, and it didn't take long for it to switch to one arm at a time, whereas this little terror was firing all 6SLas near constantly.

So far the S and K variants have been my favourites, using the builds posted above. Still trying to find one for the -A. Currently it's laughing at ghost heat (then exploding) with 8Mlas. This thing is absolutely devastating as a striker. However it absolutely cannot stick around. Get in, alpha twice (each takes me up to ~45 heat, IIRC) then run like hell to cool off. Terrible at fighting other lights, but by the mech God is it brilliant against Fatlai'.

So far, I love this mech. It's certainly up there with the SDR-5D and COM-TDK for most fun imo (replacing the JR7-F) light. It's kind of like a mini-Centurion-AL to my mind. The arms are fantastic for soaking up damage. If you die to torso death with even one arm intact, you're doing it wrong.

Over the next couple of days I intend to update this thread with a few more builds, along with descriptions on playstyle, etc. Any and all suggestions are welcomed!

[1453 R]

Lunatech, on 17 February 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

How are you fairing against streaks? I intentionally charged a couple of SHD-2D2's the other night to see what the fuss was about. Lasted a little longer than I would have in a Raven, but overall it wasn't that noticeable even when trying to keep a fair distance. Of course, that will change when more people have them and they'll run in packs of pure evil.

Overall? I still can't fight them head-to-head, they dismantle me quickly, but I find I've been surviving brushes with Streak 'Mechs much better in the FS9-S than with my other lights. Encountering one always exacted a heavy toll on my armor before I escaped (if I managed to escape), but in the FS9-S I can sometimes get away with only moderate damage done. I'll take it.

Quote

Your suggestion for the "K" is a very good one. Been running it while I got it through elites and it's just nasty. A lot of people seem to right off SLas from the word go. No one mentions that when they're used in large numbers they are fantastic. The short burn time is a godsend in a 'mech with legs like the FS9, and the short cooldown (plus low heat) make for numerous strafing runs one after the other. Duelled a JR7-F, and it didn't take long for it to switch to one arm at a time, whereas this little terror was firing all 6SLas near constantly.

DUDE I KNOW. I was honestly expecting the -K to be a bit of a slog, the bum-legged little brother I had to tag along with for a while if I wanted my good-little-boy reward of doubled basics for the -S and -E, but at this point I'm not honestly sure the -K isn't going to turn into the sleeper hit of the chassis. The -A will likely be the better 8x(gun) dagger fighter since it has better distributed hardpoints for boating, but the Beamspider -K has proven surprisingly awesome.

Quote

So far, I love this mech. It's certainly up there with the SDR-5D and COM-TDK for most fun imo (replacing the JR7-F) light. It's kind of like a mini-Centurion-AL to my mind. The arms are fantastic for soaking up damage. If you die to torso death with even one arm intact, you're doing it wrong.

Over the next couple of days I intend to update this thread with a few more builds, along with descriptions on playstyle, etc. Any and all suggestions are welcomed!

The Firestarter's reinvigorated the entire light classification for me. It's been such a blast to play that it's gotten me looking at my Ravens and Jenners again, 'Mechs I'd been struggling to elite out for a long time. Played matches with some of those others whilst my Firestarters were on lockdown during the DXP weekend here. I'm quite satisfied with my early investment in the chassis and am looking forward to tearing backplates off of Fatlases for many moons to come.

[StillRadioactive]

I've been running this wonderful little zombie mech for a while now, and I love it:
FS9-S

You've got to play it like a Medium. Stand back and take pot-shots with the Large Laser for a while, then when you see some mechs start smoking, you run into the brawl and use your arm weapons to rip off side torsos and arms.

The FS9 has an extremely skinny CT, which lets you play it like a miniature Centurion, and most people will ignore you if there's a heavy or assault mech nearby that they can shoot at. Just avoid enemy lights and you'll be OK.

[Alurath]

1453 R, on 17 February 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

DUDE I KNOW. I was honestly expecting the -K to be a bit of a slog, the bum-legged little brother I had to tag along with for a while if I wanted my good-little-boy reward of doubled basics for the -S and -E, but at this point I'm not honestly sure the -K isn't going to turn into the sleeper hit of the chassis. The -A will likely be the better 8x(gun) dagger fighter since it has better distributed hardpoints for boating, but the Beamspider -K has proven surprisingly awesome.

I thought most people preferred arm mounts to torso mounts for the extra arc that the arms give you. If the -A and -K both provide 8 energy hard points, wouldn't the -K be the better choice since it has 2 more mounts in the arms? What would the -A give me that the -K doesn't provide? Is there something I'm missing, or does it just come down to a matter of preference of torso vs arm mounts?

[1453 R]

Alurath, on 23 February 2014 - 11:41 PM, said:

Is there something I'm missing, or does it just come down to a matter of preference of torso vs arm mounts?

Pretty much that, yeah. The only difference between the FS9-A and the FS9-K, from a MechLab perspective, is that the A keeps hardpoints seven and eight in its side torsos, whilst the K throws them on the arms with hardpoints three through six.

The advantage of the K's arm-mounted hardpoints is, as you've noted, the extra firing arc arm-mounted weapons get. The Firestarter has noticeably terrible torso pitch and needs its arm-mounted weapons to shoot up/down most hills, as well as arm-mounted weapons generally being held to be more precise.

On the flip side, the FS9-A loses only two lasers rather than three when it loses an arm. Stripped of both arms, the FS9-A will retain half of its armament rather than a quarter of it, like the FS9-K. It's somewhat more durable over the course of a long, hard fight, and since one of the Firestarter's advantages over other light 'Mechs is being surprisingly durable/better able to spread damage across multiple sections, it's not a negligible bonus to be able to keep weapons longer. That's why I figure the A has a good chance of edging out the K as an octo-beam energy boat. Losing half of your small pulse/medium lasers is better than losing three quarters of them.

[Alurath]

1453 R, on 24 February 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

That's why I figure the A has a good chance of edging out the K as an octo-beam energy boat. Losing half of your small pulse/medium lasers is better than losing three quarters of them.

Thanks for the explanations. You make some good points. Since I tend to die before losing both arms, I think the -K is next on my list to purchase. If I get better at spreading around the damage that I'm absorbing, I'll re-evaluate the -A.

[TercieI]

Alurath, on 23 February 2014 - 11:41 PM, said:

I thought most people preferred arm mounts to torso mounts for the extra arc that the arms give you. If the -A and -K both provide 8 energy hard points, wouldn't the -K be the better choice since it has 2 more mounts in the arms? What would the -A give me that the -K doesn't provide? Is there something I'm missing, or does it just come down to a matter of preference of torso vs arm mounts?

Well, I bought the K first, then added the A. Here's why: I am running 4ML/4SL on these. The intersection of heat, damage and flexibility is just ideal, at least for how I play lights. That means that the SLs get split arm/torso on the K, which hurts convergence. I like the A better for that reason. Also: you're going to lose arms on a FS9 if you're playing it right. They spread damage very well, but part of that is arm shielding, so keeping some firepower in the torso is a good thing, IMO. Actually, if the torso pitch didn't suck, I'd consider putting the MLs in the torso and moving the SLs to the arms. But with the worst torso pitch in the game, the main firepower (4MLs on all four of mine) has to stay in the arms.

[o0Marduk0o]

Why nobody runs the H? Imo best variant if you don't want to pay for Ember, followed by the S variant.

[TercieI]

o0Marduk0o, on 25 February 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

Why nobody runs the H? Imo best variant if you don't want to pay for Ember, followed by the S variant.

Not really. 2 MGs are kinda "meh" (4 are pretty devastating) and if you fill all the energy slots, you're going to need those two tons for cooling. Also, you implied the main issue: It's significantly inferior to the Ember, which many people bought. It's the worst variant, IMO (this does not mean it sucks, just rocks less).

(I confess theory crafting, I don't have an H, but I've used dual and quad MGs and there's a big difference)

Edited by Terciel1976, 25 February 2014 - 05:59 AM.

[Inflatable Fish]

Terciel1976, on 25 February 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

Not really. 2 MGs are kinda "meh" (4 are pretty devastating) and if you fill all the energy slots, you're going to need those two tons for cooling. Also, you implied the main issue: It's significantly inferior to the Ember, which many people bought. It's the worst variant, IMO (this does not mean it sucks, just rocks less).

(I confess theory crafting, I don't have an H, but I've used dual and quad MGs and there's a big difference)

I picked the H at random just to get the basic skills so I can master out the E and S. double MGs are underwhelming at best. I wouldn't recommend running less than 3 on any chassis.

[o0Marduk0o]

Terciel1976, on 25 February 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

Not really. 2 MGs are kinda "meh" (4 are pretty devastating) and if you fill all the energy slots, you're going to need those two tons for cooling. Also, you implied the main issue: It's significantly inferior to the Ember, which many people bought. It's the worst variant, IMO (this does not mean it sucks, just rocks less).

(I confess theory crafting, I don't have an H, but I've used dual and quad MGs and there's a big difference)

It's not about MG's as main armament, you get a 5-6ML Jenner with 2 MG's as addition. You have more weapons at range compared to Ember. It is in no way inferior to Ember, it has more "direct dmg" and less critting power.

I run with two weapon groups, one with 4 ML and one with 1 ML and 2 MG in the the torso. It works, my 8+ K/D is telling me that.


Builds with more than 5-6 ML tend to overheat in infight situations unless you chainfire and basically lose damage, so builds with MG are superior to them. You can't say to an enemy light mech, wait a bit, need to cool down.

[1453 R]

Dual MG are significantly less than half as effective than quad MG. The Ember's quad MGs are a legitimate threat, at least down in Puglandia, while the H's pair of machine guns don't really accomplish a lot. They do offer it a bit of free DPS while it cools down (free in-game, not free in MechLab), and it's something the other C-bill Firestarters can't do. If you're plugging in Firestarters off C-bills alone, you'll probably end up with an H just because it's something different.

Machine guns are one of those weapons you need to be invested in if you want any results from them. My Ember's actually a really potent damage-dealer; combine four machine guns with the Firestarter's mobility and surprising durability, and this is the only 'Mech I've ever tried machine guns on that has legit run out of machine gun ammo. The H just can't keep up the same sort of constant free pressure the Ember can. By all means run it and enjoy it, but there's no way it's better than the S, and I'd argue that your choice of A or K should make the cut over the H.

[ego1607]

I pick small pulses for my ember. I find them better for striping aromor off a component in a quick run by. Also I have found K version working very poorly for me with 8 small pulse lasers. I usually take 8 small lasers and load aditional heat sinks giving me enough heat efficiency for a sustained fight.

Edited by ego1607, 25 February 2014 - 06:22 AM.

[TercieI]

o0Marduk0o, on 25 February 2014 - 06:18 AM, said:

Builds with more than 5-6 ML tend to overheat in infight situations unless you chainfire and basically lose damage, so builds with MG are superior to them. You can't say to an enemy light mech, wait a bit, need to cool down.

I agree. Which is why none of my FS9s has more than that. But I've found 4ML/4SL to be a devastating combo, along with 4ML/4MG.

And those 2MG aren't exactly a "free bonus" over a 5ML JR7, as you imply. 2 tons=2 DHS and the 295 cap sets you back 1 DHS vs. a JR7, so you're going to be hot even so. <shrug> I'll probably pick up an H at some point, but my hopes are low.

[o0Marduk0o]

Terciel1976, on 25 February 2014 - 06:45 AM, said:

I agree. Which is why none of my FS9s has more than that. But I've found 4ML/4SL to be a devastating combo, along with 4ML/4MG.

And those 2MG aren't exactly a "free bonus" over a 5ML JR7, as you imply. 2 tons=2 DHS and the 295 cap sets you back 1 DHS vs. a JR7, so you're going to be hot even so. <shrug> I'll probably pick up an H at some point, but my hopes are low.

FS9-H is what I run and it's a blast how easy it is to kill stuff.
It's no free bonus, but a appreciated one. For 2 DHS, which only results in 32 instead of 26 sec shutdown time according to Smurfy, you get additional damage/crit chance and a higher DPS value without shutdown. You can still fire 1 ML + 2 MG while cooling down on hot maps and on others it is hardly an issue.
You still have enough slots, so engine heatsinks are not important. The JR7-F generates more heat or loses much dps compared to the FS9-H
Ember does more dmg than the H variant because of more MG's with even better cooling but I would prefer 270m optimal range over 120m for most slotted weapons.

Edited by o0Marduk0o, 25 February 2014 - 07:13 AM.

[1453 R]

o0Marduk0o, on 25 February 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

FS9-H is what I run and it's a blast how easy it is to kill stuff.

Fix'd

Moved one DHS to the engine to free up the slots for Ferro-Fibrous in order to maximize effective use of your tonnage. Trimmed armor from the domepiece since it never gets shot anyways to slot a sixth medium laser into the energy hardpoint in order to maximize firepower. You could also add a fourth jet rather than a sixth laser if you desired better jumping over more pew-pew, but then you'd be a bit more than a quarter-ton underweight even with adding back in the domepiece armor. Still perfectly viable, just makes me itch to leave unused weight in a chassis.

Either way. Light 'Mechs that don't take both ferro and endo had best have very good reasons why. On things like Commandos and Locusts that sometimes just don't have the room, I'll often leave off DHS before I sacrifice tonnage to the loss of either Ferro or Endo. You don't have the weight to spare to throw it away like that on a smaller 'Mech.

[TercieI]

o0Marduk0o, on 25 February 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

FS9-H is what I run and it's a blast how easy it is to kill stuff.
It's no free bonus, but a appreciated one. For 2 DHS, which only results in 32 instead of 26 sec shutdown time according to Smurfy, you get additional damage/crit chance and a higher DPS value without shutdown. You can still fire 1 ML + 2 MG while cooling down on hot maps and on others it is hardly an issue.
You still have enough slots, so engine heatsinks are not important. The JR7-F generates more heat or loses much dps compared to the FS9-H
Ember does more dmg than the H variant because of more MG's with even better cooling but I would prefer 270m optimal range over 120m for most slotted weapons.

I never said it was a bad mech, I just disagree that it's the best FS9. Frankly, it's absurdly easy to kill stuff with any of them.

[wintersborn]

Would this be a good universal build for getting all three (FS9-K,S,A) mastered ?

FS9-S

The build should work on all mechs and I would go with 2 less heat sinks before I get Endo but I think Double heat sinks is a must starting out.

Seems like a decent pathway to getting all three done.

Any idea's on if its better to put the extra heat sinks in the arms to crit. pad the weapons or in the side torso's to help padd the XL engine if it does that?

Thanks.