7 replies to this topic

[ImperialKnight]

Learn to take responsibility for your positioning and movement.

If you're a LRM boat, your team does NOT have the responsibility to come back to protect you if you're out of position. YOU position yourself to not get killed while helping the team.

If you're a medium or light and you choose to sandwich yourself between an Atlas and Gaussphract dueling. Don't complain when you take dual gauss rounds into your back. Your team mate does not have time to care about you when an Atlas is in his face. You have more mobility, YOU position yourself.

[Nick Makiaveli]

knightsljx, on 14 February 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

Learn to take responsibility for your positioning and movement.

If you're a LRM boat, your team does NOT have the responsibility to come back to protect you if you're out of position. YOU position yourself to not get killed while helping the team.

If you're a medium or light and you choose to sandwich yourself between an Atlas and Gaussphract dueling. Don't complain when you take dual gauss rounds into your back. Your team mate does not have time to care about you when an Atlas is in his face. You have more mobility, YOU position yourself.

Leaving a teammate to die if you can save him is a great way to lose the game.

You are responsible for your shots, since you pulled the trigger. Doesn't mean others aren't responsible for not getting in the way.

Here's the deal, different people have different opinions about positions. Some think LRM boat should hang back, others think they should be up front.

As to FF, it's important to be aware of where others are firing and avoid blocking shots.

[Jonny Slam]

left arm.....spin.... green!

Rigth leg....spin.....yellow!

its all about positioning. Man I love twister

Edited by Jonny Slam, 14 February 2014 - 06:28 PM.

[Osric Lancaster]

Probably not exactly the place for this post. Oh well.

knightsljx, on 14 February 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

Learn to take responsibility for your positioning and movement.

If you're a LRM boat, your team does NOT have the responsibility to come back to protect you . . . *snip*

If you're a medium or light. . . You have more mobility, YOU position yourself.

Note - that the typical LRM assault platform is not mobile enough to play 'rush forward in one big group' Yes, they have some responsibility for positioning themselves, but if they get left to get dogged to death you can't really blame them. Fast 'Mechs can always go slower, the opposite is not true. That said, here's a tip for maneuvering when you're in the front of your pugblob -

Peel off to the side while you focus down a front-line enemy, don't go chest -bumping him. I know it's tempting, but it obscures your friendlies view of the target. When you smack into an enemy line, the friendlies up front tend to soak fire from overzealous, greedy or inept teammates. As a nice bonus, any enemy who twists or turns to track you may expose soft bits to friendly fire.

Edited by Osric Lancaster, 14 February 2014 - 08:00 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Osric Lancaster, on 14 February 2014 - 07:57 PM, said:

Note - that the typical LRM assault platform is not mobile enough to play 'rush forward in one big group' Yes, they have some responsibility for positioning themselves, but if they get left to get dogged to death you can't really blame them.

Yes, yes I can. When you're building a mech, it's your responsibility to build it to survive.

Sure, if you drop in a 200 rated engine, you'll have oodles of tonnage for weaponry and ammo. But when you move at 35KPH, even the Atlases are going to leave you in their dust.

In 12v12, you can work with slow mechs as you've got a team on close voice comms who are aware of each other's strengths and weaknesses. In a PUG match, speed is life.

You don't need to be fast, but you DO need to be fast enough to at least keep up with the heavy assaults. 60kph is fine; even if they're running at 80, you'll be close enough to them to mean anyone attacking you is going to be a choice target for them.

If the LRM boat elects to stay away from the group and fire from some little hidey hole... then gets jumped by lights? It's his own damned fault. Not that people shouldn't try to help him (a friendly loss is a friendly loss after all) but it's not their fault if he's killed - he made his bed, let him lie in it.

After all: If I'm in a striker medium, say, and I've kept pace with our assaults and ranged up hoping to build a crossfire against enemy mechs, I'm probably not even aware of where our LRM boat is. Even if he does say something in chat, I'm not going to abandon my charges to try to rescue him - he'll probably be dead before I find him anyways.

No, if you're in an LRM boat, keep pace with your allies. You don't need to be in front (and probably shouldn't be), but you do need to be close enough that they can see you and fire at anyone attacking you without interfering with their performance of their own job.

[Osric Lancaster]

Wintersdark, on 14 February 2014 - 08:13 PM, said:

Yes, yes I can. When you're building a mech, it's your responsibility to build it to survive.
*snip*

You are putting an awful lot of words in my mouth.

A slow 'Mech bears some responsibility for keeping up and positioning itself. That's true, and we both have said as much. But I'm not talking about 20 kph LRM crawlers. I am talking about assault 'Mechs. Yes, I cram an XL350 into my battlemaster because keeping up with the group is how you survive a PUG. That said, have you never run a drop in therma or alpine or crimson where your team has one or two assaults and everyone else buggers off at light 'Mech speed to the enemy side despite it being skirmish? Or a game in caustic or crimson where your team gets drawn out into a thin chain around the center with no supporting line of sight because everyone's chasing some enemy tease-bot? A difference in speed of 20kph is plenty to spread you out given enough time. Your may not consider it you job or your 'Mech's role in a light or medium to be assault support, but sometimes there isn't anyone else. Sometimes you're it.

Edited by Osric Lancaster, 14 February 2014 - 08:42 PM.

[Konril]

knightsljx, on 14 February 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

Learn to take responsibility for your positioning and movement.

If you're a LRM boat, your team does NOT have the responsibility to come back to protect you if you're out of position. YOU position yourself to not get killed while helping the team.

There is no "I" in "team." Remember that. A LRM boat "out of position" is both a valuable asset and a big liability. LRMs are able to attack in many situations where direct fire weapons won't reach, like over the heads of allies and over hills. In fact, it is very difficult to avoid spotted LRM fire. So when a brawl beaks out, LRM boats kill enemy brawlers easily, as long as they aren't caught in the brawl. Unfortunately, the strengths also come with weaknesses. A LRM boat can't really defend itself against attackers that get close (except with backup weapons). So this leads to a dilemma for the LRM boat pilot and his teammates. If the LRM boat isn't defended by teammates, it isn't defended at all.

So yes, it it is the responsibility of the team to help the LRM boat if the LRM boat gets into trouble. But yes, it is part of the LRM boat's job to make it as easy as possible for the team to help him. There is a big difference between not willing to help and not in a position to help. Both can cost your team the battle. But correcting one doesn't usually correct the other.

[Koniving]

I'm heavy in an art project so I'll have to let these speak for me.
Perfect LRM support (from the perspective of the 'man on the ground')

That's how it should look to the guy you're supporting. Except get there a little sooner if possible.

Note that firing all launchers at once as shown in some of the videos is now punished. Focus more on the positioning. Spoilered due to quite a few examples from dedicated LRMs to brawling to part-of-lance-mediums.

Spoiler

LRM support, positioning in wide open area. Good positioning.


LRM support, positioning in close urban areas. Bad positioning.


LRM support, positioning in urban areas. Good positioning. (Very difficult for attacking mechs to maneuver. Turrets now located in this area.)


LRM-apocalypse, LRM medium lance with spotter. Small series.

Spoiler

Graphics looked damn good in this one.

Incredible close call.

Desperate to kill a harasser.

Brawling LRMs. Assault mech with LRMs and brawling.
Brawling LRMs 2. Same as before, but even better at it.

An at your own risk positioning; good yet not. You'll see why.

Medium LRM boat; ideal positioning with the lance. Recorded from exterior by camera commando.

ROFLpult -- what happens when you charge.
ROFLpult -- BAD positioning. Applies to all LRM-only users.
ROFLpult -- Ideal positioning (after a how to build it).

Edited by Koniving, 14 February 2014 - 10:11 PM.