65 replies to this topic

[Rhent]

1st) Limit where JJ locations are on a mech by number. For example, lets say the highlander 733C has 2 JJ RL, 2 JJ LL, 1 JJ CT.

2nd) For JJ to be placed in other locations besides the CT, they must be paired. If you have 1 JJ in the LL, then you have to have 1 JJ in RL, otherwise you can't save your configuration.

It would be an indirect nerf to poptarting now by requiring a secondary JJ in most configurations unless the developers allow them to have CT JJ slots for ceratin models or builds.

[Varent]

well there are many other issues but its a start towards a good direction.

[Asakara]

Poor Jenner-D poptarts.

Edited by Asakara, 15 February 2014 - 03:01 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

I already do symmetrical arrangements just because if hurts my soul to do otherwise. I would not mind having it codified, though I'd rather asymmetrical arrangements be penalized rather than outright forbidden (lose efficiency, radically increase shake, etc.).

[LauLiao]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 15 February 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

I already do symmetrical arrangements just because if hurts my soul to do otherwise. I would not mind having it codified, though I'd rather asymmetrical arrangements be penalized rather than outright forbidden (lose efficiency, radically increase shake, etc.).

I think it would be rather funny if they drifted to one side or the other depending on how imbalanced their arrangement was.

[Appogee]

I've been balancing then for a year. You mean I didn't need to...?!

[Kroxloq]

Well said. Will be a slight nerf, make sense "realistically" and help alleviate the 1 jump jet problem.

[Eddrick]

Kroxloq, on 15 February 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

Well said. Will be a slight nerf, make sense "realistically" and help alleviate the 1 jump jet problem.

I'm in favor of the OPs idea. But, you would still be able to put 1 JJ in the CT and still have symmetry.

[Coralld]

I can get behind this, do this, and fix it so all JJ only provide the 6m jump like they are suppose to and not the single JJ that gives a 3 to 4 times the normal height we have now and then we would be on our way to JJ balance.

[Khobai]

no thanks the last thing we need is more bizarre rules like ghost heat.

if jumpjets are too good just nerf them. dont come up with some cute non-straightforward way to try and balance them.

[Rhent]

Eddrick, on 15 February 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:

I'm in favor of the OPs idea. But, you would still be able to put 1 JJ in the CT and still have symmetry.

It depends on the build and if the Devs allow that build to have a CT JJ slot. It would make sense if no 65+ Ton mech would have CT JJ slots OR if they existed in variants that do not favor poptarting. Lets say for Heavy metal they allow it to have 4 JJ's, 2 RT and 2 LT, all of sudden that mech has a 2 Slot and 4 Ton tax to Poptart up for 1 slot and 2 ton from before.

[KharnZor]

Khobai, on 15 February 2014 - 04:30 PM, said:

no thanks the last thing we need is more bizarre rules like ghost heat.

if jumpjets are too good just nerf them. dont come up with some cute non-straightforward way to try and balance them.

erm. Its a pretty straight forward idea. Balance isn't about nerfing everything

[Rhent]

This would be the change to Heavy Metal, not much of a change is it?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...58fe99a2469a972

[mindwarp]

Honestly, it never occurred to me to unbalance my JJ. If I run a single JJ, it's in the CT. Otherwise I balance them in the side torsos or legs, with any odd jumpjet going to the CT. I'd be in favour of enforcing it as a rule. It's hardly "bizarre" or unintuitive.

[Matthew Ace]

Isn't symmetrical jumpjet canon though?

[mindwarp]

There's no rule as such in tabletop. But all the canon designs mount symmetrical jumpjets, with any odd JJ mounted in the CT.

[KharnZor]

Khobai, on 15 February 2014 - 10:02 PM, said:

Not really. Since it has zero basis in tabletop. And all it does is unnecessarily limit customization for no good reason.

You want to punish poptarts? then punish poptarts. Dont punish all the mechs that use jumpjets that arnt poptarts.

Who gives a damn about what happens in the TT game? seriously this is a PC game and you just cant translate some of that stuff from there into a PC game. Think outside the box and stop limiting yourself by being so closed minded.

[Khobai]

Quote

Think outside the box and stop limiting yourself by being so closed minded.

Im not being close minded. Symmetrical jumpjets limits your builds. You only get 12 slots in your side torso. If you have an XL engine youre down to 9 slots. If some of those slots have to be taken up by jumpjets it can prevent you from taking certain weapons or weapon combinations. Its just a dumb idea that wasn't implemented in battletech for that reason and shouldnt be implemented in MWO either.

You want to nerf poptarts? Fine I get that. But do it in a way that doesnt screw with peoples builds. And do it in a way that targets the problem mechs (highlander & victor) and not every mech with jumpjets.

[BigBucket]

This is attempting to recall totally from memory but I vaguely remember some text in the older TT building rules about it not mattering where JJ were actually mounted for crit slot purposes, and that the jets would be routed internally to provide symmetrical thrust.

I have been wrong-er though... I just remember it sticking out in my mind as it seemed in-intuitive at the time I played TT.

To be back on topic, adjusting the distance/height a single jump jet provides and leaving the extra maneuverability in tact would be the closest to TT rules in my opinion.

1 jump jet would lift you ~30 meters in the same amount of time it took to lift you to walk ~30 meters at ~10.8 kp/hr. In air turning would need to allow a full 360 degrees in that same time so again would not really need to be adjusted from the current state in my opinion.

Each additional jump jet would provide another ~30 meters / ~10.8 kp/hr.

Edited by BigBucket, 16 February 2014 - 07:11 AM.

[tayhimself]

Khobai, on 16 February 2014 - 06:43 AM, said:

You want to nerf poptarts? Fine I get that. But do it in a way that doesnt screw with peoples builds. And do it in a way that targets the problem mechs (highlander & victor) and not every mech with jumpjets.

I'm surprised this isn't getting more traction. One simple way to target jumpjets on assaults is to reduce their thrust to weight ratio by giving them a movement archetype similar to hill climbing. Use what's already in the game instead of adding weird features. This would mean you would have to take a lot of JJs on VTR/HGN/CTF builds which would balance pop tarting a bit.