Stepping Razor, on 17 February 2014 - 04:42 AM, said:
Thanks y'all that clears up my thought process a bit and sheds some new light on my perspective of what i view "balance" as. i liked the Rock Paper Scissor Analogy a lot, and i like the idea of more controlled mech load outs, not on a crazy scale though, more on the lines of like not allowing AMS on pretty much all the mechs, maybe only allow it on a handful, or long shot here just popped into my head possibly "having a separate engine class for each chassis type, light/medium/heavy/assault" wich would then put more limits on how Fast/damage output, etc, i know there are some engine that just are not used because no matter how u fit them out another engine will always trump it via it being the same weight as the one higher exp. STD 150-170 all weight the exact same, so why would u ever use the 150 etc. i might be asking a little to much at this point, so good luck you all and thanks again for your reply's and if anyone else has good idea's or incite on Role Warfare VS. Balance i would like to hear them. don't be shy i am pretty open minded, and I'm trying not to have this topic a strait hate thread, though it might come off that way.
Rock paper scissors i find is too simplistic an analogy and is quite frustrating if applied too harshly.
What is meant is that some roles will trump other roles in the right situation, however we have seen what this does with ECM and LRMs. ECM trumps LRMs. Did this make an interesting and nuanced game where people would be countering ECM with TAG and PPCs but without that LRMs would be mitigated in certain circumstances.
No
LRMs became trash (there are other issues though). Mainly though it is because you did not know if your LRMs would be wholesale countered by ECM. Even with TAG it became an exercise in frustration and still it using LRMs.
So rock counters scissors ... but was it a satisfying experience for either player? The ECM player got a free ride and the LRM player got his main weapons neutered and felt useless on the battlefield.
This is a HARD counter and what some people think creates balance, if the system worked better then LRMs should be devestating if they did not have ECM so the risk reward is balanced but then non ECM mechs would have a less than great experience too.
Hard counters rock paper scissors style do not leave a good playing experience espeically if you cannot shoose your team loadout.
Soft counters would work much better. Using ECM again as an example, if it made it HARDER to use LRMs against but did not destroy them then people might be more inclined to use them as main or backup weapons. If it took longer to get a lock, or if it made the missiles spread out a lot or something then you have an effective system to protect against LRMs but would not eliminate someone elses game experience completely.
Another example on a macro view is the kind of balance we get at ranges.
Brawlers SHOULD be better once in range of a sniper or indirect fire boat. If they take the risk of getting into that range without being able to outlay damage thier close range weapons should be able on even skill level be much more powerful than the sniper via damage output or constant firing due to lower heat or something.
Snipers should have the advanatge over brawlers at range.
indirect fire should be able to flush snipers out of entrenched positions and be able to give area control if left unhindered but get hurt by brawlers in close range and be outclassed by snipers when out of cover.
This does not mean a sniper cannot kill a brawler in a brawl, nor does it mean an LRM boat cannot compete with a sniper at range if he is careful even firing directly.
Rock papaer scissors indicates that a brawler would be almost unopposed in close range rather than simply having a greater advantage.
Gradiation is needed but enough advantage for each role to make you want to focus on that role. It is a delicate balancing act but PGI has got some problems here:
HARD counters in the form of ECM, vs TAG, Vs BAP etc where things counter each other completely instead of giving gradiation of performance. As such BAP is just a streak tax for instance, you never take SSRMs without BAP now just in case you get an ECMer in your face.
Poor brawling weapons. SRMs, LBX, Pulse lasers are considered sub par weapons for brawling leaving only a few viable weapons in that catagory.
LRM nerfs - PGIs inability to make LRMs a viable single launcher weapon compared to a boated weapon, and their inability to have a proper risk reward system of indirect ve direct fire means LRMs were nerfed into the ground to avoid another LRM apocalypse. This is a case where different mechanics were needed to make the ROLE fit but instead they players with values only.
3
" ) to Nerf something is because they don't fully understand it or know how to counter/inter act it on the battlefield, this leave us "not learning new tactics" all that happens is the game gets bland and then people lose in their interest in the end.
