12 replies to this topic

[Omaha]

Wondering if this would be too much out of the question, to get a rule imposed that would restrict lances dropping the same exact mech model #. Stacking mech's seems pretty op no matter what the model. Light or Heavy, assult, or medium. At least this is my point of view. I do know there are alot of factors that go into being OP.

Cordination, communications, loadouts, positions, playstyle etc etc. but to me it seems when a lance can just drop the same exact mech chassis, it does seem it can be pretty dangerous. Perhaps too much so. It does seem to effect other things as well besides the OP'ness of it. Such as weight balancing systems, and elo systems. This is all speculations, I got no idea what happens behind the scenes.

Just wondering how other people thought about it.

I wouldnt mind getting some kind of rule to see just 2 of the same chassis allow in a lance.

[Abivard]

HEY! I want a rule restricting the number of persons from each nation in a drop.

Their abilities to communicate, coordinate, and playstyles such as knowing what side to pass on are to OP!

I also want a rule to restrict weapons to no more than two of any type, if a third is equipped, please destroy their computer.

I have no idea if these things will accomplish anything, but do it anyways please.

[NextGame]

If we are just throwing around random nonsense: I would like another 795500 xp to finish off the mechs I've still to master, please add this to my account at your earliest convenience PGI. (and this is why it wouldn't work, why would you buy a mech if you couldn't play it, as everyone else happened to be playing it that month?)

That said, there would be some value in having some kind of bonus or something for using mech chassis associated with your faction etc, if we ever had community warfare.

Edited by NextGame, 16 February 2014 - 01:37 PM.

[Nick Makiaveli]

I like that you ask other people's opinion, so I will be nice.

First, restricting what people can do will piss people off. I would not be amused to have the MM drop me in a T-bolt simply because other people are running Jagers.

Second, it wouldn't affect the MM at all at the moment.

Thirdly, what if you only own 1 mech and it's already at max limit? Do you not get to play? Sucks for new players.

Fourth, what exactly is OP about it? All the same mech means they all have the same weakness. If they are all dual AC/20 Jagers, then just snipe them at range for example.

For the record, if you hadn't asked for people's opinion, and had instead gone on about nerf this and that while admitting you didn't know the details or if it would work etc, I would have made Abivard's post look like something Mother Theresa would've posted.

[Omaha]

yeah all the same chassis do have the same weakness, but they also have all the same strengths, and strengths x4, plus effecting (from what Ive observed, and heard on streams, from ppl who work on the game) it effects weight balancing systems behind the scenes. Is what I'm considering to be too powerful. Plus same chassis might get pugged in. Or be in another lance in itself.

may I ask you guys, why you all drop the same chassis? when you run stacking lances? What is the reasons behind it? Ask yourself that and you will perhaps understand why I'm considering a chassis restriction/per lance.

Edited by Omaha, 16 February 2014 - 01:52 PM.

[NextGame]

Omaha, on 16 February 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

may I ask you guys, why you all drop the same chassis?

To a degree: basic synergy without having to put effort into it

Generally: Because some mechs are simply better than others, therefore those are the mechs that people want to play. If you were the developer you would have a very hard road trying to justify that "you cant play that mech even though you purchased it, because this other guy is", as it lands into arguments around mc vs cbills purchases and premium accounts etc.

[Wintersdark]

Sticking with Nick's politeness on account of you asking opinions, I'll respond nicely as well.

In short, two identical mech models don't impact balance at all.

A team is definitely no stronger for having 4 AWS-8V's instead of a mix of assaults.

When you do see it, its either due to mech popularity (firebrand, jm6-s, misery, DDC, hgn733c, etc or due to a premade group running the same mech just because.

In the premade case, mech choice has little to do with their effectiveness - that's teamwork.

But yeah, multiples of the same chassis? No impact at all, outside of the individual qualities of the mechs in question.

Not to mention the question of load outs: are those 4 jags all ac40? Are they a random assortment?

[Omaha]

"In the premade case, mech choice has little to do with their effectiveness - that's teamwork."

Sorry I do not full agree with that one, if they werent effective. Why would a premade run them? Premade can be effective no matter what chassis are involved.

"Second, it wouldn't affect the MM at all at the moment."
Correct, you can run similar loadouts with other chassis, so why not run those other chassis, from time to time? Perhaps you'll get a better match up because of it?

"In short, two identical mech models don't impact balance at all."
You're right! but 4 of the same? per lance, not too mention others that may pug into the drop.

"A team is definitely no stronger for having 4 AWS-8V's instead of a mix of assaults."
"But yeah, multiples of the same chassis? No impact at all, outside of the individual qualities of the mechs in question."

Isnt that a contradiction? Erm re read, lol I have caffeen eyes sorry!

I can understand why ppl would not like it, as ppl want freedom of choice, and it can be fun to run all spiders or something. Besides I can see something like this being a nightmare to implement. I guess I was more curious as to why ppl run the stacking lances......putting up and shutting up! See you out there!

Edited by Omaha, 16 February 2014 - 02:28 PM.

[Bront]

So you're telling me my Awesome squad is OP?

[Nick Makiaveli]

Omaha, on 16 February 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

yeah all the same chassis do have the same weakness, but they also have all the same strengths, and strengths x4, plus effecting (from what Ive observed, and heard on streams, from ppl who work on the game) it effects weight balancing systems behind the scenes. Is what I'm considering to be too powerful. Plus same chassis might get pugged in. Or be in another lance in itself.

First let's clarify terminology here. Chassis is Raven, Jager, Awesome. Not all Ravens are the same, the 3L is the only one with ECM for example.

So are you talking about chassis, or build, ie the weapons loadout?

Assuming chassis, yes 4x the strength, but also 4x the weakness.....it's called balance. Assuming weapon loadout, same thing applies.

Omaha, on 16 February 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

may I ask you guys, why you all drop the same chassis? when you run stacking lances? What is the reasons behind it? Ask yourself that and you will perhaps understand why I'm considering a chassis restriction/per lance.

First off, speaking from my experience with the DHB, unless it's a competitive drop, or training, we don't normally. For fun, you bring what you want. When training, we often wind up in the same mech because we are practicing LRM tactics, or scouting tactics etc. and certain mechs are better than others at certain tasks.

Stacking lances? Not a clue what you are talking about.

Now let's say my buddy decides to level up his Locusts some. I might run my Locust since I have it mastered and can show him some tricks I've learned. If there are four of us dropping, maybe the other guys say what the hell, let's swarm!!!

Nope, nothing OP there.

Omaha, on 16 February 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

"In the premade case, mech choice has little to do with their effectiveness - that's teamwork."

Sorry I do not full agree with that one, if they werent effective. Why would a premade run them? Premade can be effective no matter what chassis are involved.

See above. Also, if a pre-made CAN be effective in different chassis, why change things?

Omaha, on 16 February 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

"Second, it wouldn't affect the MM at all at the moment."
Correct, you can run similar loadouts with other chassis, so why not run those other chassis, from time to time? Perhaps you'll get a better match up because of it?

It WON"T affect the MM. Chassis type doesn't affect it at all. Your Elo is different for different weight classes, but the same for all mechs in a class.


Did it occur to you that other people might be leveling a given mech? Or that it might be popular due to the TT game or past MW games?

Omaha, on 16 February 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

"In short, two identical mech models don't impact balance at all."
You're right! but 4 of the same? per lance, not too mention others that may pug into the drop.

So? You do realize that the odds are the same to have them drop in your side right?

Omaha, on 16 February 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

I can understand why ppl would not like it, as ppl want freedom of choice, and it can be fun to run all spiders or something. Besides I can see something like this being a nightmare to implement. I guess I was more curious as to why ppl run the stacking lances......putting up and shutting up! See you out there!

Ok so you got swarmed by a wolfpack of Lights. How do you know they were pre-mades? Maybe it was a fluke?

I had one drop last night where Bravo lance was all Jagers/FBs. Turns out it was 4 random guys and none of them had dual AC/20. Bet you a trillion dollars the other side thought they were a pre-made when it was over.

Or the drop where almost our whole side was Kurita. Again, random luck (one of our guys was flying the red flag as well). Not a sync drop, though the other side cried and whined about it.

Don't go down that rabbit hole...only silly, ugly, and delusional people down there.....

[stjobe]

And here I was hoping for a thread that argued the stacking rules of TT should be implemented; only one (friendly) 'mech per hex!

[Craig Steele]

stjobe, on 16 February 2014 - 03:40 PM, said:

And here I was hoping for a thread that argued the stacking rules of TT should be implemented; only one (friendly) 'mech per hex!

LOL, me too. Thats exactly what I thought.

So tired of standing still in my Locust and some Atlas runs into me at top speed in the drop zone

[Asmudius Heng]

The hope is that in CW there will be some sense of logistics so you cannot always bring your desired mechs due to repair needs, or tonnage limits etc.

I do not hold high hopes PGI will do it but there despertly needs to be a sense of logistics in CW.

Some of the competative leagues that are running now have restrictions like this in thier ruleset but that is only organised 12 vs 12