55 replies to this topic

[Panthros]

PGI seems to think the only way to balance the game is to have 12v12 when clans arrive. If you have not seen it yet, watch the Ask the Devs - Vlog #2.

I want to see the lore followed here, 10v12 and balance with weight as better example than 12v12. I am sure this is not the only example to balance gameplay but I wanted this conversation started to send a message to PGI to reconsider.

Feedback? Alternative gameplay balance ideas?

[Bhael Fire]

A lot of people want them to follow BT lore on this one; Bryan has said that they most likely will end up going 10 vs 12 and that Paul and the other guys are just being cautious.

I think the reason they are initially saying 12 vs 12 is because IS factions will be able to field Clan mechs, so that could throw a monkey wrench in balancing.

[Sandpit]

Bhael Fire, on 18 February 2014 - 05:34 PM, said:

A lot of people want them to follow BT lore on this one; Bryan has said that they most likely will end up going 10 vs 12 and that Paul and the other guys are just being cautious.

I think the reason they are initially saying 12 vs 12 is because IS factions will be able to field Clan mechs, so that could throw a monkey wrench in balancing.

^This if I had to guess. Although it raises questions to what happens if IS players use clan mechs against clans but have to contend with 10v12 also.
Maybe an option where if you choose to take clan tech you're only allowed to drop in a max group of 10? There's a LOT more to it than simply saying "10v12" is the best way. There's a ton of ramifications that something like this would have across the entire game.

[Macksheen]

10 by 12 allows for asymmetrical balancing ... things don't need to be equal, you don't have to nerf-bat clan so hard, etc.

I'd like to see ....

- 10 by 12
- clan tech being better, but more expensive later IS tech being available
- IS balanced by better mech/faction XP trees

Putting Clan as an early-entry option, easier for new players w/ IS having a bit of a longer time-scale to get on par - but ultimately so.

[Koniving]

I hope Inner Sphere can't field clan battlemechs. That'd be b.s. Clan and Inner Sphere factions separate, and separate mechbay filters.

But... 12 versus 10?

Nah.

I want 16 versus 15. 4 Lances versus 3 Stars.

Edited by Koniving, 18 February 2014 - 05:46 PM.

[Zyllos]

If 10 v 12 is it going forward, then why can IS players use Clan mechs?

Only one of two things can happen:

• Sticks to lore, with 10 Clan mechs vs 12 IS mechs.
  
• They change to 12 v 12.

[Craig Steele]

Panthros, on 18 February 2014 - 05:24 PM, said:

PGI seems to think the only way to balance the game is to have 12v12 when clans arrive. If you have not seen it yet, watch the Ask the Devs - Vlog #2.

I want to see the lore followed here, 10v12 and balance with weight as better example than 12v12. I am sure this is not the only example to balance gameplay but I wanted this conversation started to send a message to PGI to reconsider.

Feedback? Alternative gameplay balance ideas?

Except 10 v 12 is not Lore.

There are sound arguments for 10 v 12 on a technology basis, but there is no canon that supports the Binary vs Company battle is the predominant engagement.

I think that is Clan mechs are 'superior' (as they will have to be to have a blaanced game 10 v 12) it will mean the end of IS mechs on the battlefield in numbers. Pilots just naturally chose a chassis that gives them a the bast chance (before team, mission etc is even considered)

We don't see many Locusts for exactly that reasons, there are better chassis for the job.

I cannot see that trend changing and pilots will gravitate towards Clan mechs.

So the question becomes, do you want Clan vs Clan or do you want Clan / IS vs Clan IS.

It's a tough one.

[Craig Steele]

Koniving, on 18 February 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

I hope Inner Sphere can't field clan battlemechs. That'd be b.s. Clan and Inner Sphere factions separate, and separate mechbay filters.

But... 12 versus 10?

Nah.

I want 16 versus 15. 4 Lances versus 3 Stars.

OMG the lag?????

[Panthros]

You pick a faction by choosing a mech to launch with, Clan or Inner Sphere (how is it complicated?). Inner Sphere factions do not have access to Clan mechs in 3050. If you select a Clan mech, you are put in the binary que. If you choose an Inner Sphere mech, you are put in a company que. Mech weight and ELO can always help balance the 10v12 out. PGI is working to make the makes more balanced and I understand that. The person who chooses Clan knows they have to play smarter because there is only a binary of mechs. Clans, if they are superior, will have to prove it on the battlefield! It is perhaps not 2 less mechs as that tonnage is spread out among the binary, fallback is ELO.

I want to see Clan v Clan, IS v IS, IS v Clan but ultimately I want to see the major parts of lore of BattleTech or why call this BattleTech!

[Sandpit]

Koniving, on 18 February 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

I hope Inner Sphere can't field clan battlemechs. That'd be b.s. Clan and Inner Sphere factions separate, and separate mechbay filters.

So all those IS players buying clan mechs wouldn't be able to use them unless they abandon their units, friends, teammates, factions etc. that they've invested 2 years in playing with?

Craig Steele, on 18 February 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:

it will mean the end of IS mechs on the battlefield in numbers. Pilots just naturally chose a chassis that gives them a the bast chance (before team, mission etc is even considered).

Except not everyone can afford them right off, only those that buy packs will have early access and others just prefer their IS mechs. I doubt it will be the end of anything

[Craig Steele]

Panthros, on 18 February 2014 - 05:57 PM, said:

You pick a faction by choosing a mech to launch with, Clan or Inner Sphere (how is it complicated?). Inner Sphere factions do not have access to Clan mechs in 3050. If you select a Clan mech, you are put in the binary que. If you choose an Inner Sphere mech, you are put in a company que. Mech weight and ELO can always help balance the 10v12 out. PGI is working to make the makes more balanced and I understand that. The person who chooses Clan knows they have to play smarter because there is only a binary of mechs. Clans, if they are superior, will have to prove it on the battlefield! It is perhaps not 2 less mechs as that tonnage is spread out among the binary, fallback is ELO.

I want to see Clan v Clan, IS v IS, IS v Clan but ultimately I want to see the major parts of lore of BattleTech or why call this BattleTech!

So the way it is looking at the moment is it will work as follows if 10 v 12

Players chooses mech
Mech determines queue - IS or Clan
MM pulls 10 mechs from Clan queue, 12 from IS queue of the same faction / ELO (ie, 10 Clan OR 12 IS all under Marik faction)
MM fills any gaps in the faction roster with LNW of same tech

So we might see 8 Marik Omni's with 2 LNW Omni's as a team

Teams then put into game, 10 Clan vs 10 Clan OR 12 IS vs 12 IS or 10 Clan vs 12 IS between factions on the front (The Marik force may fight Steiner, Capellan or Davion for example)

Planet determined from front, battle outcome changes planets status.

Thats going to be un canon too. But PGI have already said IS factions will have access to Clan mechs / chassis from day 1.

@Sandpit, agreed. But the duration of the journey doesn't change the destination. 1 month or six, the game model will still be going in the same direction. Arguably its a good commercial decision by PGI as it encourages players to "buy". So still F2P, but better toys if you pay.

[Bhael Fire]

Craig Steele, on 18 February 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:

Except 10 v 12 is not Lore.

When people say "10 vs 12 is based on lore" they are talking more specifically about Stars vs Lances...which is indeed lore.

[Craig Steele]

Bhael Fire, on 18 February 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

When people say "10 vs 12 is based on lore" they are talking more specifically about Stars vs Lances...which is indeed lore.

That would be 5 Clan vs 4 IS, you may mean Star vs company which is 5 Clan vs 12 IS which is a canon engagement that has several instances.

But Binaries (10 Clan mechs) vs Companies (12 Clan mechs) is not an engagement that was frequent,

[Lukoi Banacek]

Everyone can lore-***** it all they want.

when they opened the bidding to allow anyone to buy the Clan Mechs, they derailed themselves irt 10v12.

When they decided to make Clantech a balanced but different flavor of tech rather than more powerful than IS tech (I concept I endorse, because being closer to balanced is better for the longevity of the game and the casual player base of people who are not necessarily BT fanatics they are trying to attract), they derailed 10v12.

Sad but true. I'd dig some lore adherence myself, but they probably cannot do that AND keep the game balanced enough to attract the casuals imo. There's a reason so many MMO's in recent years use "mirror" classes, regardless of flavoring.

[CrashieJ]

100 vs 120

yeah! push computers until they melt!

[Koniving]

Sandpit, on 18 February 2014 - 06:00 PM, said:

So all those IS players buying clan mechs wouldn't be able to use them unless they abandon their units, friends, teammates, factions etc. that they've invested 2 years in playing with?



Except not everyone can afford them right off, only those that buy packs will have early access and others just prefer their IS mechs. I doubt it will be the end of anything

Split factions on the same account. There's no reason to not be able to belong to an Inner Sphere and a Clan group at the same time.

Edited by Koniving, 18 February 2014 - 07:21 PM.

[Mcgral18]

gavilatius, on 18 February 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

100 vs 120

yeah! push computers until they melt!

On River City...I can only imagine. What mayhem it would be with collisions....

[Koniving]

Craig Steele, on 18 February 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

OMG the lag?????

I don't get lag. But PGI needs better design. I can run ultra settings with 64 players on BF4 and run as the commander.

No reason to not be able to here. MW:LL does 32 players and MUCH bigger and more detailed maps and you can get out of the mechs.

[Craig Steele]

Koniving, on 18 February 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

I don't get lag. But PGI needs better design. I can run ultra settings with 64 players on BF4 and run as the commander.

No reason to not be able to here. MW:LL does 32 players and MUCH bigger and more detailed maps and you can get out of the mechs.

I have only one word to describe my gaming experieince in MW:O

Australia

Koniving, on 18 February 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

Split companies. There's no reason to not be able to belong to an Inner Sphere and a Clan group at the same time.

This is the same argument as split accounts (one Clan, one IS).

Sandpits point (I believe) is that the chassis you choose may dictate who you can play with (team wise) which not all players would be receptive to

[Sandpit]

Koniving, on 18 February 2014 - 06:19 PM, said:

Split companies. There's no reason to not be able to belong to an Inner Sphere and a Clan group at the same time.

are you talking about you only drop as "clan" when you're using clan tech but stay in your original faction?