225 replies to this topic

[o0Marduk0o]

PhoenixFire55, on 20 February 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

Nobody asks for anything more than c-bills / exp, how does that affect anyone else? Or how does that give me any advantage?

Is there something else you earn in matches besides cbills/xp? Do you really ask where the advantage is?

[PhoenixFire55]

o0Marduk0o, on 20 February 2014 - 10:21 AM, said:

Is there something else you earn in matches besides cbills/xp? Do you really ask where the advantage is?

Where is it? So that I farm faster vs myself rather then farm slower in games with other people screwing them in process?

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

PhoenixFire55, on 20 February 2014 - 07:26 AM, said:

Every decent MMO game out there allows you to play with friends and still level up / earn in-game money etc.

Personally I would NEVER play in PUG queue as soon as I have a choice. This is a team game and I want MY team to play with, not with some random BS that shoots LRMs point blank, especially considering how matchmaker is "balanced" and "working as intended".

If I won't get any xp/c-bill rewards out of it then PGI won't get a single penny from me and my teammates.

I'm guessing, but ... I think PGI wants most of the competition to be part of actual Community Warfare, maybe even have every public match as part of Community Warfare (and yes, two 12-mans fighting against each other is still a public match).

Private matches will be a place for games for fun (24-man free-for-all!), for in-house practice and training, for team-vs-team scrimmages, and for community-generated leagues. In private matches, you will not only get to pick the playing field, but be able to pick your enemy ... how is it fair that those rewards are the same as any other match? Rewards for private matches, becuase they are outside of the system that PGI has (and will have) in place, should be minimal (or none).

That said, I would really like to still have a fully functional random/quick drop queue (what we have now), maybe with less rewards than actual CW matches (they certainly shouldn't gain me any "loyalty points" whatever those are), so that I don't have to play with unfamiliar 'mechs (which may not be particularly effective) in CW matches.

[RichAC]

PhoenixFire55, on 20 February 2014 - 07:52 AM, said:

If that is your biggest concern I pity you. Surely its gonna be FAR worse than a guy just picking champion mech and disconnecting at the start of the match all day. [/sarcasm]



I've played WoW with 2-3 friends and still got exp/gold out of it, you have no idea what you are talking about.

You can still play with 3 other friends in MWO dude and get cbills. What is it your complaining about?

And as far as disconnecting goes, I guess we have guys like you to thank as to why noone gets a a big reward for winning! Which drives alot players away from this game, because making the game only about ciblls and damage, and not about winning, kills any spirit of competition for most people.

All PGI would have to do is not reward a win bonus to people who have a disconnect next to their name at the end of the match! How hard can that be to program? Instead, a bunch of sore losers get PGI to penalize everyone in the game? Real nice. But then again, i'm not a computer programmer.

All I know is, its very suspect to insist private matches be rewarded the same as public matches for obvious reasons.

Edited by RichAC, 21 February 2014 - 02:55 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

RichAC, on 21 February 2014 - 02:40 AM, said:

You can still play with 3 other friends in MWO dude and get cbills. What is it your complaining about?

If those 3 others were the ONLY people in game then yes. As it stands now there are 20 random others I don't want.

RichAC, on 21 February 2014 - 02:40 AM, said:

And as far as disconnecting goes, I guess we have guys like you to thank as to why noone gets a a big reward for winning! Which drives alot players away from this game, because making the game only about ciblls and damage and not winning kills any spirit of competition.

You are obviousely so smart and full of yourself. Please do tell me where exactly did I say that I EVER used the disco-farming method? Or that I ever said this game is only about c-bills / damage?

RichAC, on 21 February 2014 - 02:40 AM, said:

All PGI would have to do is not reward a win bonus to people who have a disconnect next to the name at the end of the match! How hard can that be to program. Instead a bunch of sore losers get them to penalize everyone in the game?

Yes indeed very simple. I've said same thing dozens of times, but they just ignore this problem as they always do. It will be just as simple to prevent exploiting in private matches with c-bills / exp. But they can't be bothered.

RichAC, on 21 February 2014 - 02:40 AM, said:

Suspect.

Feel free, I couldn't care less.

[Joseph Mallan]

RichAC, on 20 February 2014 - 02:49 AM, said:

Thanks, I have been in a long never ending debate about this with a couple players in another thread, something which I thought should be common sense.

Do you have a link to that podcast? I've never known about it. Appreciate the reply.

No you haven't! Or at least the number of posts you have don't back up the "Never ending" part of your statement.

Just a friendly poke Rich. No harm meant.

[RichAC]

VanillaG, on 20 February 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

I voted no and would add that if you use a consumable module you still need to pay to replace it even though you did not earn any cbills for the match. Private matches allow the participants to setup the battles as they see fit but they should not affect the progression of the your character. Only public matches should progress your character.

Just to be clear, private matches are a situation where me and up to 23 of my friends get to play a match that we can set the parameters for. I still can create a group of 2-12 people (coming in April) and play in public matches to earn XP/CBills.

As far as any size premades go, people complain alot about 4 man premades as it is. So to have those dominating 12 mans, start making 11 man premades and dominating every pug into an empty playerbase, just like they have to these carebears in 12 man mode, might be an issue....lol

IF they want to earn rewards with with more then 3 other friends, they need to suck it up and play a 12 man. And if some people are complaining about long search times dropping solo, I can just imagine when PGI is trying to match teams up according to premade sizes of any number....

But we will see, maybe PGI will make a separate game mode for premades of any size, and we will just have to see how it goes.... I just hope alot of people who have been begging for this for a long time are not too disappointed.

IMO thats what private matches will be for. for those guys syncdropping with 30 guys, who can scrimmage against themselves and practice for 12 mans.

Edited by RichAC, 21 February 2014 - 03:19 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

o0Marduk0o, on 20 February 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

How can people even think about allowing rewards in private matches, where people are free to decide/manipulate the results. You can't even call it naive.

Its called a wager. My side would put up X C-bills your side would match or Exceed it. Winner take all. Both sides get XP cause they battled and thus gained experience.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 21 February 2014 - 02:58 AM.

[RichAC]

PhoenixFire55, on 21 February 2014 - 02:51 AM, said:

If those 3 others were the ONLY people in game then yes. As it stands now there are 20 random others I don't want.

So you want a 4v4 match? I can see that...as long as people suck it up and don't quit when they lose the first couple games. But to have any size premade would mean long search times, or never finding a game. You'd also need some smaller maps dude.

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You are obviousely so smart and full of yourself. Please do tell me where exactly did I say that I EVER used the disco-farming method? Or that I ever said this game is only about c-bills / damage?

What? lol So what were you implying about "picking champion mech and disconnecting all day" maybe I misunderstood.

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Yes indeed very simple. I've said same thing dozens of times, but they just ignore this problem as they always do. It will be just as simple to prevent exploiting in private matches with c-bills / exp. But they can't be bothered.

Actually no it won't be just as simple. Because you can only flag stat padding and then its open for interpretation on a case by case basis. Its very hard to justify and prove and would require alot more calculations.... Its impractical and ridiculous. To reward self selected matches is unsportlike and should not be allowed in the first place.

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Feel free, I couldn't care less.

Or just no sports sense. This is not an RPG COOP MMO friend, Its PVP an arena shooter as far as I'm concerned and should be treated like a sport.

Edited by RichAC, 21 February 2014 - 03:06 AM.

[o0Marduk0o]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 February 2014 - 02:58 AM, said:

Its called a wager. My side would put up X C-bills your side would match or Exceed it. Winner take all. Both sides get XP cause they battled and thus gained experience.

Or one side is only there to give the other side XP. Or you trade cbills between multiple accounts. It will be exploited and we already got a dev statement here, so nothing to discuss left.

[RichAC]

PhoenixFire55, on 20 February 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

Where is it? So that I farm faster vs myself rather then farm slower in games with other people screwing them in process?

Yes! Because you are avoiding the challenge of playing with random teamates and opponents, for easier/faster rewards. Apparenlty "playing with friends" is not your real issue. If cbills were not an issue, why would you care in the first place?

I'm sure PGI also wants to make sure people still actually play CW and other game modes. Which they are working hard on and what keeps them in business, and how they designed this game to be played.

Edited by RichAC, 21 February 2014 - 03:14 AM.

[Curccu]

Paul Inouye, on 20 February 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

[color=cyan] As this feature is currently in the pipe, I'll comment on it. It has never been our stance to allow rewards in Private Matches. It is something easily gamed and exploited. CB/XP rewards will only be available in the public queue.[/color]

So it should be you can gain nothing, you can lose nothing then?
used consumables would still be in your inventory after game...

[RichAC]

Curccu, on 21 February 2014 - 03:18 AM, said:

So it should be you can gain nothing, you can lose nothing then?
used consumables would still be in your inventory after game...

I think you should still have to play a public match to get cbills for the consumables.

[meteorol]

Nope. This was a huge problem in the Battlefield series.

4 guys went on private servers, different teams and went on statpad madness.
All 4 in a circle, headshot, revive, headshot revive, headshot revive. They got all the unlocks within a tiny time span compared to players playing legit.

As long as you are able to get rewards on private servers, players will find a way to exploit it, and they will do it. Has always been this way, will always be this way.
Rewards on private servers = players using it to exploit is bound to happen.

[PhoenixFire55]

RichAC, on 21 February 2014 - 03:03 AM, said:

So you want a 4v4 match? I can see that...as long as people suck it up and don't quit when they lose the first couple games. But to have any size premade would mean long search times, or never finding a game. You'd also need some smaller maps dude.

What search times? I want a PRIVATE match with my 3 friends (i.e. 2 vs 2) that I set up and launch without invloving anyone else from any wait queue, that will still give me a certain amount of exp/c-bills using the same formula that public matches do (same pay per kill/assist/point of damage etc.).

Maps are fine.

RichAC, on 21 February 2014 - 03:03 AM, said:

What? lol So what were you implying about "picking champion mech and disconnecting all day" maybe I misunderstood.

You did. All I said that it was used and still is used by certain ******* I dislike as much as anyone.

RichAC, on 21 February 2014 - 03:03 AM, said:

Actually no it won't be just as simple. Because you can only flag stat padding and then its open for interpretation on a case by case basis. Its very hard to justify and prove and would require alot more calculations.... Its impractical and ridiculous. To reward self selected matches is unsportlike and should not be allowed in the first place.

Actually yes it will. It requires effort and effort is lacking on devs side. You can very easily track those private games and if player A wins 10 out of 10 times vs player B doing combined 10.000 damage in those 10 games vs 0 damage player B does, then yes, it does scream exploit.

What 'stats' do you keep talking about? I am asking for two things in private matches. One is a fair amount (same per kill/assist/damage as in public games) of c-bills, and the other is same fair amount of exp. Nobody bloody cares about your KDR. Nobody bloody cares about your Elo either. And I (which here and in other places means 'I can just as well as anyone else' and does not necesserily mean that I or anyone else in particular actually does) can just as effectively exploit and tank/sandbag my KDR/Elo in public games.

If there is anything ridiculous then its forcing me to either spend real money in F2P game or be teamed up with people who have absolutely no clue or just trolling others if I want to have any sort of progress in game.

RichAC, on 21 February 2014 - 03:03 AM, said:

Or just no sports sense. This is not an RPG COOP MMO friend, Its PVP an arena shooter as far as I'm concerned and should be treated like a sport.

Step down to Earth for a couple mins and imagine that there do exist people who play this game for fun. And I'll say it again ... I don't ask for any CW-based rewards, be it loyalty points, faction rewards, reputation, progress in all-time-great-MWO list etc.

All I ask is c-bills/exp based on same formula that is used in public matches, so that I can still enjoy the game and buy a new mech occasionally without being stuck in horribly balanced by PGI's precious Elo-BS-maker matches.

If I will ever want to take an active part in CW, place myself in all-time-greats MWO lists or whatever else people consider haveing sports sense I will obviousely play in public games against the opposition that I have no beforehands knowledge of.

[Curccu]

RichAC, on 21 February 2014 - 03:20 AM, said:

I think you should still have to play a public match to get cbills for the consumables.

Why?

[RichAC]

PhoenixFire55, on 21 February 2014 - 03:31 AM, said:

What search times? I want a PRIVATE match with my 3 friends (i.e. 2 vs 2) that I set up and launch without invloving anyone else from any wait queue, that will still give me a certain amount of exp/c-bills using the same formula that public matches do (same pay per kill/assist/point of damage etc.).

Well I don't know what to say to you about this, you obviously don't understand thats exploitable, or why its ridiculous for PGI to monitor, or why it undermines the match maker and ranking system regardless.

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You did. All I said that it was used and still is used by certain ******* I dislike as much as anyone.

If I misunderstood, what were they gaining from it then? .... Its nice you are an honest guy, most people aren't. Most people don't have as much respect for video games as you and me, especially when behind an anonymous identity.

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Actually yes it will. It requires effort and effort is lacking on devs side. You can very easily track those private games and if player A wins 10 out of 10 times vs player B doing combined 10.000 damage in those 10 games vs 0 damage player B does, then yes, it does scream exploit.

You expect them to personally review everyones private match, because you want to get easy rewards with 2 of your friends? Thats pretty demanding dude. Again, you show a lack of sports sense, if you think its easy to program some tool to automatically detect every stat padder, its just not feasible.

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What 'stats' do you keep talking about? I am asking for two things in private matches. One is a fair amount (same per kill/assist/damage as in public games) of c-bills, and the other is same fair amount of exp. Nobody bloody cares about your KDR. Nobody bloody cares about your Elo either. And I (which here and in other places means 'I can just as well as anyone else' and does not necesserily mean that I or anyone else in particular actually does) can just as effectively exploit and tank/sandbag my KDR/Elo in public games.

You just answered your own question...lol They are still "stats" friend.

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If there is anything ridiculous then its forcing me to either spend real money in F2P game or be teamed up with people who have absolutely no clue or just trolling others if I want to have any sort of progress in game.

Thats not an unfair thing to ask, because its what everyone has to do.

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]Step down to Earth for a couple mins and imagine that there do exist people who play this game for fun. And I'll say it again ... I don't ask for any CW-based rewards, be it loyalty points, faction rewards, reputation, progress in all-time-great-MWO list etc.

All I ask is c-bills/exp based on same formula that is used in public matches, so that I can still enjoy the game and buy a new mech occasionally without being stuck in horribly balanced by PGI's precious Elo-BS-maker matches.

If I will ever want to take an active part in CW, place myself in all-time-greats MWO lists or whatever else people consider haveing sports sense I will obviousely play in public games against the opposition that I have no beforehands knowledge of.

IF it was only about "fun" for you, you wouldn't be debating me over cbills....You would be happy just playing with your friends, for no reward other then "FUN".

Edited by RichAC, 21 February 2014 - 04:03 AM.

[RichAC]

Curccu, on 21 February 2014 - 03:52 AM, said:

Why?

Well for one, it will give a reason to still play the other game modes and keep them populated. Which is good for the whole community and PGI in general.

Edited by RichAC, 21 February 2014 - 04:06 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

RichAC, on 21 February 2014 - 03:11 AM, said:

Yes! Because you are avoiding the challenge of playing with random teamates and opponents, for easier/faster rewards. Apparenlty "playing with friends" is not your real issue. If cbills were not an issue, why would you care in the first place?

Let me stop using 'I' and replace it with 'somebody' so you won't get ideas.

Currently somebody has 2 options.

Option 1 is to play hard in 10 games to earn around 1m c-bills (some effort involved).

Option 2 is to auto-launch 100 games without even being anywhere near PC and remain afk in all of them thus earning same 1m c-bills (zero effort involved).

If allowed to gain c-bills in private matches somebody will have an option 3 to use two PCs and play 10 private matches vs himself in afk mode to earn same 1m c-bills (far more effort involved).

1 and 3 do not screw other people in games, while 2 does and involves no effort.
Yes, 3 is an exploit, but it does not in any way affect anyone else. It is nothing like wall-hacks or aimbots that give you competitive advantage. You can say 'but somebody does spend less time that normal players to earn same amount', and I will tell you that he does not spend ANY time earning c-bills now using option 2 and not even being anywhere near his PC.

Let me once again tell you what my 'issue' is. In any other MMO game I have an option to progress in game while playing only with people I want to play with. Counter-Strike the father of all multiplayer shooters has exact same concept as MWO, and it does have private passworded games where I only have people I want in. By not giving c-bills/exp in private matches PGI forces me to either spend real money on a F2P game or play with horrible matchmaker thus with horrible people in matches.

I had absolutely no problem playing with random people in closed beta. 99.9% of them were decent individuals, and it was always fun even when 'evil 8-man' was stomping me. Now it is exactly the opposite. Overall player quality has inevitably detoriated, and while you can still have 22 decent players, the remaining 2 ***** can ruin the match for all those 22. While 'evil premades' have been limited to 4, PUG teams are still getting stomped on more than 60% occasions due to whatever magical algorithm MM balances 4 complete newbies in champ mechs with 4 veteran players in 733C overlords. I have NOTHING against playing with those newbies, as long as both teams have same amount of them. Current MM fails miserably in any form of balancing and PGI already said that it is 'Working as Intended'^TM. Thus I have no hope whatsoever for MM that actually does its job and will as soon as it is possible play private matches and leave PUGs for good.

RichAC, on 21 February 2014 - 03:11 AM, said:

I'm sure PGI also wants to make sure people still actually play CW and other game modes. Which they are working hard on and what keeps them in business, and how they designed this game to be played.

Really? No really? If they want us to play in CW then make it so that I'll be interested in it. If they will force me to play in CW against my will then me and my money will just leave forever.

[RichAC]

PhoenixFire55, on 21 February 2014 - 04:03 AM, said:

Option 2 is to auto-launch 100 games without even being anywhere near PC and remain afk in all of them thus earning same 1m c-bills (zero effort involved).

Another poster already explained noone gets any cbills for this. And so i guess i did understand you correctly before....

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If allowed to gain c-bills in private matches somebody will have an option 3 to use two PCs and play 10 private matches vs himself in afk mode to earn same 1m c-bills (far more effort involved)

1 and 3 do not screw other people in games, while 2 does and involves no effort.
Yes, 3 is an exploit, but it does not in any way affect anyone else. It is nothing like wall-hacks or aimbots that give you competitive advantage. You can say 'but somebody does spend less time that normal players to earn same amount', and I will tell you that he does not spend ANY time earning c-bills now using option 2 and not even being anywhere near his PC.

You sound like a hacker now dude. Defending playing against yourself on two acounts because it takes more technical effort? IT doesn't matter if it doesn't affect anyone elses match, its dishonest you are getting faster rewards then everyone else that has to actually play for them. its also unfair to PGI who wants to make money off this game. In fact its almost criminal dude, how old are you? How could you defend such a thing?

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Let me once again tell you what my 'issue' is. In any other MMO game I have an option to progress in game while playing only with people I want to play with. Counter-Strike the father of all multiplayer shooters has exact same concept as MWO, and it does have private passworded games where I only have people I want in. By not giving c-bills/exp in private matches PGI forces me to either spend real money on a F2P game or play with horrible matchmaker thus with horrible people in matches.

Counterstrike has no progression man. What are you talking about? Its why quake and CS are the greatest fps e-sports of all time imo. Every player had exact equal attributes, except the human ones God gave them. But they are a dying breed. One devs want to make money, two people who want pure e-sports aren't playing on the pc anymore.

And when you keep saying MMO, I think of you as an RPG player not an FPS player man. They plan to include levels in this game, you should be happy. PGI's matchmaker is fine, the problem is they have to keep a wide ELO gap so enough people are included, but its definitely better then nothing. This ensures not any more people will drop out of community play, further hurting the matchmaker. Which I always like to add, most games don't even have!

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I had absolutely no problem playing with random people in closed beta. 99.9% of them were decent individuals, and it was always fun even when 'evil 8-man' was stomping me. Now it is exactly the opposite. Overall player quality has inevitably detoriated, and while you can still have 22 decent players, the remaining 2 ***** can ruin the match for all those 22. While 'evil premades' have been limited to 4, PUG teams are still getting stomped on more than 60% occasions due to whatever magical algorithm MM balances 4 complete newbies in champ mechs with 4 veteran players in 733C overlords. I have NOTHING against playing with those newbies, as long as both teams have same amount of them. Current MM fails miserably in any form

Maybe there was more people playing with the community in beta, and your suggestions would only give people more reasons to not play with the community. Although, I'm not sure I even believe this comment..sorry.

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Really? No really? If they want us to play in CW then make it so that I'll be interested in it. If they will force me to play in CW against my will then me and my money will just leave forever.

/bye to the less then 10 percent of the community like you /waves

I still say its people like you as to why we have no win bonuses, not disconnecting farmers which i would think can easily be calculated, , or even the whiny sore losers about fast cap wins(which as one poster explained to me, is still just a beta mode prior to CW) Well your a minority.

I think the less people there are who undermine fair play, carebears against the spirit of competition, and those that want to exploit this game, the more popular it will become.

Edited by RichAC, 21 February 2014 - 04:32 AM.