225 replies to this topic

[Nightfire]

RichAC, on 21 February 2014 - 05:06 AM, said:

I just find it totally amazing, I mean did you even read any of this thread? You sound like nightfire now. Are you just trolling for personal reasons? How many times do people have to give specific examples of why thats unfair?!?

Just once as long as it is reasoned and cogent and I would strongly advise you not to use my name as a word to insult others with.

[RichAC]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 February 2014 - 05:20 AM, said:

But the training ground does not have "live" adversaries that fire back. In private matches I can test my weapons out against someone who can give me feedback. It is training, and deserves XP. Cash... Works either way to me. If it is against other Lawmen I don't need/want cash for that. If its against DHB... I would not be against taking their C-Bills

As one poster put it, you don't get paid for a scrimmage match. You only get paid for a real competition.

[Joseph Mallan]

o0Marduk0o, on 21 February 2014 - 05:28 AM, said:

You get better skills in piloting mechs, the player itself advances. This is your training, not to unlock stuff in an exploitable environment. If you really just want to train, XP/CB wouldn't be a topic here.

You can't compare MWO with a MMORPG. It's not even close.

I learn how to deliver a jump spin round kick in class, I then apply it on the matts in a tournament... That is how training works last I was in a Martial Art Class.

I couldn't shoot a bullet through a the silhouette of a human head at 500m till I trained myself to do it. Micheal Jordan didn't learn to dunk playing against other teams. He learned in... Practice.

[DEN_Ninja]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 February 2014 - 05:32 AM, said:

I learn how to deliver a jump spin round kick in class, I then apply it on the matts in a tournament... That is how training works last I was in a Martial Art Class.

I couldn't shoot a bullet through a the silhouette of a human head at 500m till I trained myself to do it. Micheal Jordan didn't learn to dunk playing against other teams. He learned in... Practice.

Practical skills = / = Video Game Skills.

Dunking is like the practical skill of aiming in the game but it not equivalent to gaining a quantitative value of XP.

I grant you that they should allow GXP gain but not XP/CB

Edited by Tichorius Davion, 21 February 2014 - 05:35 AM.

[Nightfire]

Tichorius Davion, on 21 February 2014 - 05:34 AM, said:

Practical skills = / = Video Game Skills.

Dunking is like the practical skill of aiming in the game but it not equivalent to gaining a quantitative value of XP.

I grant you that they should allow GXP gain but not XP/CB

Why not? Seriously.
Think about it and come up with your best arguments.

Everyone brings Atlases and starts stripping? How long does that take and how much could they have made in that time in a public match? What is the difference?

Once you have a potential difference (since they are all estimates) is that potential difference significant enough to really be concerned about?

[Joseph Mallan]

Its not a question of Sportsmanship but gamesmanship, Doing something that is not "Illegal" but is in poor taste.

[RichAC]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 February 2014 - 05:32 AM, said:

I learn how to deliver a jump spin round kick in class, I then apply it on the matts in a tournament... That is how training works last I was in a Martial Art Class.

I couldn't shoot a bullet through a the silhouette of a human head at 500m till I trained myself to do it. Micheal Jordan didn't learn to dunk playing against other teams. He learned in... Practice.

How are you comparing character attribute advantages from gaining xp levels or equipment with cbills, the same as your human abilities getting better?

Oh thats right, you don't even compare video games to sports at all, so you wouldn't understand the difference.

Edited by RichAC, 21 February 2014 - 05:43 AM.

[Nightfire]

RichAC, on 21 February 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

Oh thats right, you don't even compare video games to sports at all, so you wouldn't understand the difference.

You really need to stop insulting people when it has nothing to do with the point you are putting forward.

[RichAC]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 February 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

Its not a question of Sportsmanship but gamesmanship, Doing something that is not "Illegal" but is in poor taste.

In that very link you quoted, they describe gamesmanship as "opposed to sportsmanship"

in the origins section of that link, they cleary describe to old guys, blatently CHEATING, the younger players out of points in tennis.

Cheating in video games is also sometimes called "gaming the system" as in undermining a matchmaker!

Gamesmanship can mean "exploitsmanship" haha This is why devs try to balance a game for fair play. Are you encouraging gamesmanship? meaning exploiting the game and gaming the system?

You think because something is possible, that it should be allowed? Is this what we should be teaching kids?

Gaining XP and cbills, "dubiously" or i would say "dishonestly" in a private match, is not acceptable to anyone with any sports sense or sense of fair play.

Edited by RichAC, 21 February 2014 - 05:50 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Tichorius Davion, on 21 February 2014 - 05:34 AM, said:

Practical skills = / = Video Game Skills.

Dunking is like the practical skill of aiming in the game but it not equivalent to gaining a quantitative value of XP.

I grant you that they should allow GXP gain but not XP/CB

That isn't a bad compromise At all Tichorius!

As to dunking... How much practice would I need to put in to be able to dunk skillfully? Could I get that kind of skill just playing pick up Basketball once a week, or would I need to practice for hours, days, weeks and months(ie Private matches)?

[Curccu]

RichAC, on 21 February 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

But you are gaining something by not losing something. You are in a sense, gaining consumables over and over again, when people playing with the community have to rebuy them over and over again. Thats not fair.

Like I said, its also more of a reason, besides just cb/xp, for people to still have to play matches with the community. Which is good for the whole community and PGI, and the matchmaker to keep peoples ELO's updated. SO they don't play a private match for a month, turn into god with their new mech, and stomp lower brackets, as another example.

No. by using that consumable I might do some damage or even get a kill or two, but what does that gain me if I cannot gain any CB / XP from that game?
What do I gain by using that consumable again and again for free in private match?

[Joseph Mallan]

RichAC, on 21 February 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

How are you comparing character attribute advantages from gaining xp levels or equipment with cbills, the same as your human abilities getting better?

Oh thats right, you don't even compare video games to sports at all, so you wouldn't understand the difference.

When I first started firing an M-16 in boot camp I was barely able to qualify. A year latter and thousands of rounds down range My "convergence" with Center mass became second nature. So training to learn how to aim better (convergence). I ran dashes and sprints in practice n the track team to improve my running and shotput skills. Increasing my speed and strength to run faster and throw farther (Speed tweak and we don't have modules for extended range ...yet) Things learned in practice not on the starting line race day.

Comparing the abilities of a Video gamer to an athlete is foolish, but to get better you gotta train. That goes for any endeavor you want to undertake. I paint minis, I got pretty good, I don't compare myself to Michelangelo, a real artist.

I joined Murphy's Law and was playing on an under strength laptop. The Law took up a collection an bought me a nice gaming tower.

[RichAC]

Curccu, on 21 February 2014 - 05:46 AM, said:

No. by using that consumable I might do some damage or even get a kill or two, but what does that gain me if I cannot gain any CB / XP from that game?
What do I gain by using that consumable again and again for free in private match?

gratification.

[DEN_Ninja]

1. Invalidation of 'Pub' and 'CW' matches.

Why would I bother playing regular matches if I can just play singularly with my friends? I gain everything as normal as if I were playing a standard to there's no point in me playing public matches if Private matches offer the same rewards. Especially if I can play with JUST MY FRIENDS ONLY.

It is not healthy for the queues nor the game if everyone just dumps the into the private matches over the public matches. The only people that would actually engage in the CW matches is for the hardcore player/roleplayer. I laugh if you think that casuals can't gather enough people for a private match. Ever play League? I'd rather gather 9 other people and play a match at the comfort of having friends to converse with over the toxic filth that exists.

2. It is a god damned Private match.

The module as far as I know is going to allow for custom settings. Why should you allow a CUSTOM GAME the ability to grant in game rewards when you could just as easily set it so that maximizes rewards? Set Conquest, 4v4, and having a lance of TAG/NARC/SSRM lights run around shooting up 4 DDC's leaving one alive before capping.

3. People

Don't sit that and tell me that you won't do that. It isn't about just you. It is about the other people playing this game. You might not abuse the game but others might. Need I mention that despite Game Hack developers charging money and having DRM on their cheats people still bought them and used them on their Steam Accounts.

Those Steam Accounts are banned and people are still using those cheats. People are still trying to hack into games, spending money. Losing all their games on Steam and are willing to do it again.

[Joseph Mallan]

Curccu, on 21 February 2014 - 05:46 AM, said:

No. by using that consumable I might do some damage or even get a kill or two, but what does that gain me if I cannot gain any CB / XP from that game?
What do I gain by using that consumable again and again for free in private match?

You should earn (G)XP but not C-bills. You didn't do anything to advance or employers goals.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 21 February 2014 - 05:54 AM.

[RichAC]

Joseph Mallan, on 21 February 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

When I first started firing an M-16 in boot camp I was barely able to qualify. A year latter and thousands of rounds down range My "convergence" with Center mass became second nature. So training to learn how to aim better (convergence). I ran dashes and sprints in practice n the track team to improve my running and shotput skills. Increasing my speed and strength to run faster and throw farther (Speed tweak and we don't have modules for extended range ...yet) Things learned in practice not on the starting line race day.

Comparing the abilities of a Video gamer to an athlete is foolish, but to get better you gotta train. That goes for any endeavor you want to undertake. I paint minis, I got pretty good, I don't compare myself to Michelangelo, a real artist.

I joined Murphy's Law and was playing on an under strength laptop. The Law took up a collection an bought me a nice gaming tower.

here we go again, hahaha, all I can say is you can't tell the difference between xp and cbills, and your human abilites. They have nothing to do with each other.

But just to add, gaining human abilities by practicing i private matches, also throws off your ELO when then dropping into the community match at first, which is another story that PGI can't really do anything about, but I'd imagine that would minimal and even out shortly, and still not nearly as bad as sand baggers if private matches rated players.

And nowhere near, even close, to the advantage one would gain by justifyng getting xp and cbills in a private match? really? You think that is the same as you practicing to improve your physical abilities? WHAT!?!? haha


Either that or you are not being sincere and just trolling like nightfire, because when you start defending "gamesmanship" on these forums I start to wonder....

Edited by RichAC, 21 February 2014 - 06:06 AM.

[Nightfire]

RichAC, on 21 February 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

But you are gaining something by not losing something. You are in a sense, gaining consumables over and over again, when people playing with the community have to rebuy them over and over again. Thats not fair.

Why not? If you're not using it to gain C-Bills or XP, if it only training why shouldn't mechs reset to the way they were when they entered, consumables and all? Or is the cost of consumables in Private Matches a means to discourage people in Private Matches from say testing them out or learning to use them effectively?

If you remove the bonus of using them, why maintain the cost of them?

Quote

Like I said, its also more of a reason, besides just cb/xp, for people to still have to play matches with the community. Which is good for the whole community and PGI, and the matchmaker to keep peoples ELO's updated.

What do you have against people avoiding the public queue if they don't like it? Why this insistence that they must be forced to play somewhere they may not like?

Quote

SO they don't play a private match for a month, turn into god with their new mech, and stomp lower brackets, as another example.

As opposed to purchasing a new mech with MC, "turn into god with their new mech, and stomp lower brackets"? the only difference is your position has is either the new player has to spend MC on his new god mech or he drops in a trial mech with his godly skills "and stomp lower brackets"

Do you really see that happening? If it did, do you really think this players Elo will stay in lower bracket stomping range for long?

[Lukoi Banacek]

So much of this thread is moot it is hilarious.

Paul stated PGIs stance on the issue. It is decided.

Now will it stick? I suppose thats debatable.

Needless to say, one can clearly exploit things to greater effect in a purely private setting than they can in a community accessible environment so they will likely never come off of this stance. Look at BF3 servers as a prime exqmple of this.

You can play Wow with juet a couple of key friends but on the overall game world AND in a primarily pve environment. Major apple to orange issue there.

Here you are discussing pvp only and stats and rewards based on performance in that arena. It is very easy to exploit those kinds of things even someone controlls the setti gs and potentially colludes with others to stat pad.

Does it punish a majority due to a tiny minority? Yes. Welcome to the real world in that regard.

[Curccu]

RichAC, on 21 February 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

gratification.

WTF. Really?

[RichAC]

Curccu, on 21 February 2014 - 06:01 AM, said:

WTF. Really?

Yes really?

Curccu, on 21 February 2014 - 06:01 AM, said:

WTF. Really?

You asked what you would be gaining. Why use them at all then? What would you be losing without them?

Edited by RichAC, 21 February 2014 - 06:07 AM.