225 replies to this topic

[wanderer]

Cathy, on 28 February 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

I'd like to think that people who voted yes for this, did it out of innocent intention.

But it just screams I want to exploit XP and C-bills with my friends

You don't want to know what kind of C-bill farming you could do with private matches, a few target-practice accounts, and a little time. Heck, one LAN and I could be sitting there in private matches headshottin' Atlai till the cows come home while they just sit there, cause I just logged them in for farming.

Public matches being the only ones with rewards outside of PGI tournaments run by the company is the only sane method.

[Gyrok]

VanillaG, on 20 February 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

I voted no and would add that if you use a consumable module you still need to pay to replace it even though you did not earn any cbills for the match. Private matches allow the participants to setup the battles as they see fit but they should not affect the progression of the your character. Only public matches should progress your character.

Just to be clear, private matches are a situation where me and up to 23 of my friends get to play a match that we can set the parameters for. I still can create a group of 2-12 people (coming in April) and play in public matches to earn XP/CBills.

Neg, you cannot create 2-12 groups, you can create the same 2-4 groups we have now *with newly implemented restrictions*

[C E Dwyer]

wanderer, on 28 February 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

You don't want to know what kind of C-bill farming you could do with private matches, a few target-practice accounts, and a little time. Heck, one LAN and I could be sitting there in private matches headshottin' Atlai till the cows come home while they just sit there, cause I just logged them in for farming.

Public matches being the only ones with rewards outside of PGI tournaments run by the company is the only sane method.

Agreed

[Gyrok]

Paul Inouye, on 20 February 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

[color=cyan]As this feature is currently in the pipe, I'll comment on it. It has never been our stance to allow rewards in Private Matches. It is something easily gamed and exploited. CB/XP rewards will only be available in the public queue.[/color]

This concerns me, how are the competitive groups supposed to continue to earn cbills/XP? Especially if we have to PAY PER MATCH?! That is unjustifiable.

Either you make it free, or you give it rewards if we pay per match.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too...if you want our money per match, we need to get rewards. If you do not want rewards tied to it, then it needs to be free (attached to must have premium time is actually acceptable for this in my mind).

[wanderer]

Gyrok, on 28 February 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

This concerns me, how are the competitive groups supposed to continue to earn cbills/XP? Especially if we have to PAY PER MATCH?! That is unjustifiable.

Either you make it free, or you give it rewards if we pay per match.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too...if you want our money per match, we need to get rewards. If you do not want rewards tied to it, then it needs to be free (attached to must have premium time is actually acceptable for this in my mind).

At that point, if you put rewards into paid matches, you have literally created a P2W engine. No.

[VanillaG]

Gyrok, on 28 February 2014 - 03:55 PM, said:

Neg, you cannot create 2-12 groups, you can create the same 2-4 groups we have now *with newly implemented restrictions*

Let fire up the DeLorean and update my post from a week ago.

[RichAC]

Curccu, on 27 February 2014 - 04:07 AM, said:

Yep like Yesterday... for two hours we tried to syncdrop with our league match opponent and managed to do that once... and what we got was different opponent with each drop.

In 12 man? I find that hard to believe because when i've 12 manned, either the search fails, or we end up playing the same team over and over again usually.

[Curccu]

Yes you do league matches in 12 man queue.
Same with Thursday, within 2 hours we managed to sync twice.

[RichAC]

Peiper, on 25 February 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

Did you even read the whole post, where I describe how 5+ player teams could work in the pug queues?? Note the '*' a the end of the sentence you quoted, which refers to the note/explanation below. Large teams would face up against ONLY other large teams. Ideally, there wouldn't be pug stomps, and solo and small team queues wouldn't even fight with these teams, excepting a few here and there, and they would be WITH those big teams, fighting other big teams, and they would reap the benefits of tagging along. Sigh...

It would be like in 12 mans.....failed searches, long qeues , or you playing against the same time wiping the floor with you over and over. Because there is just not enough players. Its really naive to think it would be any different.

There might be enough 4 mans, at first, for a matchmaking pool....but 4v4 on these huge maps would be corny imo.

Curccu, on 01 March 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

Yes you do league matches in 12 man queue.
Same with Thursday, within 2 hours we managed to sync twice.

and you never got a failed search or saw the same team twice in a row thursday?

I admit i've only qeued for 12 man less then half a dozen times......but every time I queued, there were lots of failed searches, and seeing the same team maybe 2-3 times in a row, so I find it hard you coldn't sync drop.

But regardless, there will be private matches soon, so i'm sure you guys are excited about that.

Edited by RichAC, 01 March 2014 - 07:42 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Cathy, on 28 February 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

I'd like to think that people who voted yes for this, did it out of innocent intention.

But it just screams I want to exploit XP and C-bills with my friends

If I am practicing with the Law, I know I am not going to give my team mates a pass. They cannot get better if we go easy. So I have the right intention you were hoping for. I have never taken it easy on anyone in practice... Not even my Sifu. I embarrassed him a few times when a Technique he was demoing was not having the proper effect. It forced him to adjust his lesson so that the students knew what to do if they had a similar scenario.

The best ever came during Gun Take Away training. Sifu gave me the rubber gun and said now use it on me. I backed off 9-12 feet and aimed with both hands holding the pistol like a well trained Cop. Sifu said, "When you encounter this. Give him your wallet." Then tossed his to me. He then asked me to use it like a street thug... My hand hurt for 3 days! But it was worth it that the class knew sometimes the best defense is surrender.

[Curccu]

RichAC, on 01 March 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

and you never got a failed search or saw the same team twice in a row thursday?

I admit i've only qeued for 12 man less then half a dozen times......but every time I queued, there were lots of failed searches, and seeing the same team maybe 2-3 times in a row, so I find it hard you coldn't sync drop.

But regardless, there will be private matches soon, so i'm sure you guys are excited about that.

We might have failed once, not 100% sure... but didn't get same team twice in a row.

and yes waiting for that launch module very much, it's ridiculous that it takes 4 hours to get 3 games against the opponent we want.

[Gyrok]

wanderer, on 28 February 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

At that point, if you put rewards into paid matches, you have literally created a P2W engine. No.

Then make the queue free for premium time subscribers.

Pay Per Match model with no rewards is P2L engine, and no one in their right mind, no matter how badly we want the ability to do it, would use it on a wide scale.

EDIT: I am even fine with reward caps...like say 2k XP max and 150-200k cbills. I have played many matches that I have earned over 300k+ cbills in one match...200k cap is just enough to keep those players paying to play making reasonable rewards to sustain their in game currency necessities. It also makes it not worthwhile to try to farm or exploit because you can make more in PUG queue, but you still get *something* in private queues.

Edited by Gyrok, 01 March 2014 - 03:52 PM.

[TehSBGX]

No on C-bills but maybe some XP.

[Davers]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 March 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

If I am practicing with the Law, I know I am not going to give my team mates a pass. They cannot get better if we go easy. So I have the right intention you were hoping for. I have never taken it easy on anyone in practice... Not even my Sifu.

No one is calling The Law's honor into question here. But if something can be exploited, or used as a workaround to the systems that PGI have in place, it shouldn't be allowed. For example, PGI wants players to spend real money on Premium time and Hero Mechs so players can earn more Cbills. But if you were allowed to transfer funds between players in any fashion then you would have circumvented one of their primary avenues of income. Thus it should not be allowed.

[RichAC]

Curccu, on 01 March 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

We might have failed once, not 100% sure... but didn't get same team twice in a row.

and yes waiting for that launch module very much, it's ridiculous that it takes 4 hours to get 3 games against the opponent we want.

One, I don't believe you.

Two, they plan to implement private matches, so no worries...

Gyrok, on 01 March 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

Then make the queue free for premium time subscribers.

Pay Per Match model with no rewards is P2L engine, and no one in their right mind, no matter how badly we want the ability to do it, would use it on a wide scale.

EDIT: I am even fine with reward caps...like say 2k XP max and 150-200k cbills. I have played many matches that I have earned over 300k+ cbills in one match...200k cap is just enough to keep those players paying to play making reasonable rewards to sustain their in game currency necessities. It also makes it not worthwhile to try to farm or exploit because you can make more in PUG queue, but you still get *something* in private queues.

I disagree. Even if rewards were less it could still be exploited. You don't even need a "little bit of cbills", especially, if as you say, its so easy to make that much in a pug.

Edited by RichAC, 02 March 2014 - 07:36 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Davers, on 01 March 2014 - 05:20 PM, said:

No one is calling The Law's honor into question here. But if something can be exploited, or used as a workaround to the systems that PGI have in place, it shouldn't be allowed. For example, PGI wants players to spend real money on Premium time and Hero Mechs so players can earn more Cbills. But if you were allowed to transfer funds between players in any fashion then you would have circumvented one of their primary avenues of income. Thus it should not be allowed.

So PGI should scrap the game? Cause Meta is exploiting the system. Min/Max is exploiting the system. I transfer money and equipment in SWTOR between toon and I spend money, on the game. I can't do that here, and I don't spend money here any more.

A fix for exploiting the Recruit bonus is to not allow that money to be transferred, OR you have to have paid for premium time IF PGI is only looking at making money from us.

[Davers]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 March 2014 - 03:44 AM, said:

So PGI should scrap the game? Cause Meta is exploiting the system. Min/Max is exploiting the system. I transfer money and equipment in SWTOR between toon and I spend money, on the game. I can't do that here, and I don't spend money here any more.

A fix for exploiting the Recruit bonus is to not allow that money to be transferred, OR you have to have paid for premium time IF PGI is only looking at making money from us.

1. I was writing from PGI's point of view. I am sure they would rather you run Premium time and buy the same Hero mechs for both your accounts. Star Wars does it differently. Maybe because it was originally a subscription based game that turned F2P and having multiple characters was how it was originally designed. I know in other F2P games that I have played you can't share items.

2. The 'Meta' isn't an exploit. It's how the game actually works. And if not for Min/Maxing, what the heck is the mechlab for? Isn't the simple act of taking ammo and moving it to a more protected position Min/Maxing?

[Joseph Mallan]

Davers, on 03 March 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

1. I was writing from PGI's point of view. I am sure they would rather you run Premium time and buy the same Hero mechs for both your accounts. Star Wars does it differently. Maybe because it was originally a subscription based game that turned F2P and having multiple characters was how it was originally designed. I know in other F2P games that I have played you can't share items.

2. The 'Meta' isn't an exploit. It's how the game actually works. And if not for Min/Maxing, what the heck is the mechlab for? Isn't the simple act of taking ammo and moving it to a more protected position Min/Maxing?

1) Sharing items is a coin flip depending on the game.

2) The Meta is an exploit of a known system that works, and the Mech Lab is fr making a Mech the way you want... Which may or may not include Min/Maxing. As to moving ammo... Not as I understand Min/Max. Min/Max is Creating a fighter, Giving Max Combat stats (Str, Con, Dex) and leaving Unnecessary abilities just above drooling. It includes maxing Skills that make you a better fighter while neglecting skills that round out a character. YMMV

[Davers]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 March 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:

1) Sharing items is a coin flip depending on the game.

2) The Meta is an exploit of a known system that works, and the Mech Lab is fr making a Mech the way you want... Which may or may not include Min/Maxing. As to moving ammo... Not as I understand Min/Max. Min/Max is Creating a fighter, Giving Max Combat stats (Str, Con, Dex) and leaving Unnecessary abilities just above drooling. It includes maxing Skills that make you a better fighter while neglecting skills that round out a character. YMMV

Perfect! Then there is no Min/Maxing in MW:O.

[Joseph Mallan]

Davers, on 03 March 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

Perfect! Then there is no Min/Maxing in MW:O.

I don't think I ever really complained about that to much Have I?