59 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

you think its bad now wait till clan mechs.

clan mediums will have the firepower of IS assaults. because clan srms weigh half as much as IS srms.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sandpit, on 20 February 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

Wait...........
You mean to tell me that this has been the case and norm for THIRTY YEARS?!??!?!?!

No. It has been a few exceptions. The majority of Lights have lil biddy guns and run around really really fast, But some break the mold... Hollander*Cough Cough*

But you knew that of course.

Khobai, on 20 February 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

you think its bad now wait till clan mechs.

clan mediums will have the firepower of IS assaults. because clan srms weigh half as much as IS srms.

Because Stormcrows can carry an Atlas-D payload!

[Khobai]

Quote

Because Stormcrows can carry an Atlas-D payload!

It can actually. clan heavy medium lasers do 10 damage each. 5 of those is 50 damage.

Also the Stormcrow Config A gets 3 missile hardpoints. And you can swap omnipods. Four clan heavy medium lasers + three clan SRM6s. Thats what? 76 damage?

And thats just a Stormcrow with lousy hardpoints. Now imagine what a medium like a Shadowcat with more ideal hardpoints can do... PGI is nuts if they think they can balance IS vs. Clans 1:1, its never gonna happen.

Quote

Next you guys will be trying to tell me and expect me to believe that light mechs can mount something as silly as an AC20 or 10!!!

Amusingly enough, the Uller can mount a UAC/20 in its RA with its 16 tons of pod space. It doesnt even lose any speed or anything since clan mechs cant change their engine rating. That will probably even be a common build for it (CUAC/20 + 2 tons ammo + 2 CERML).

Edited by Khobai, 20 February 2014 - 09:06 AM.

[Sandpit]

Next you guys will be trying to tell me and expect me to believe that light mechs can mount something as silly as an AC20 or 10!!!

Where do you guys come up with this crazy stuff????

[MeiSooHaityu]

Although I believe the OP is a troll, I never liked the implementation of JJs on Assault mechs in this game.

When the Highlander was announced, I knew it was a bad idea.

I didn't want Assaults to have the additional manuverability JJs allowed for. I always thought a lack of manuverability was a good down side to piloting an Assault (to even out the higher hitting weapons and additional armor).

I never even thought about poptarting, although that is decidedly worse than the manuverability aspect LOL.

As for Lights with LLasers, nah that's fine IMO.

[Roadkill]

*cough*Behemoth*cough*

[Charons Little Helper]

Ordellus, on 20 February 2014 - 03:08 AM, said:

Yep this game has officially become ******* Stupid^tm

Infantry carrying rocket launchers? That's stupid! (And do you realize - there are aircraft that weigh FAR more than 100 tons?)

[Joseph Mallan]

MeiSooHaityu, on 20 February 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

Although I believe the OP is a troll, I never liked the implementation of JJs on Assault mechs in this game.

When the Highlander was announced, I knew it was a bad idea.

I didn't want Assaults to have the additional manuverability JJs allowed for. I always thought a lack of manuverability was a good down side to piloting an Assault (to even out the higher hitting weapons and additional armor).

I never even thought about poptarting, although that is decidedly worse than the manuverability aspect LOL.

As for Lights with LLasers, nah that's fine IMO.

You do remember that the Victor was introduced before the Highlander right?

[Khobai]

Quote

I always thought a lack of manuverability was a good down side to piloting an Assault (to even out the higher hitting weapons and additional armor).

Yeah. i actually think JJs need a turning nerf. But also assaults should lose anchor turn and speed tweak and gain damage reduction skills instead. They should be way harder to destroy than they currently are, but even a medium mech should be able to outmaneuver them with relative ease.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadkill, on 20 February 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

*cough*Behemoth*cough*

I absolutely love that Mech! At GenCon08, I killed 6x it's mass in a Clan Match up. I had to call out players after the first two assault omnis died at my guns!

[MeiSooHaityu]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 February 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

You do remember that the Victor was introduced before the Highlander right?

No I didn't LOL. I actually thought about how bad it would be when the Heavy Metal launched, I don't remember thinking that when the Victor came out. Still, same idea applies regardless of which mech came out first.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 20 February 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

It can actually. clan heavy medium lasers do 10 damage each. 5 of those is 50 damage.

Also the Stormcrow Config A gets 3 missile hardpoints. And you can swap omnipods. Four clan heavy medium lasers + three clan SRM6s. Thats what? 76 damage?

And thats just a Stormcrow with lousy hardpoints. Now imagine what a medium like a Shadowcat with more ideal hardpoints can do... PGI is nuts if they think they can balance IS vs. Clans 1:1, its never gonna happen.



Amusingly enough, the Uller can mount a UAC/20 in its RA with its 16 tons of pod space. It doesnt even lose any speed or anything since clan mechs cant change their engine rating. That will probably even be a common build for it (CUAC/20 + 2 tons ammo + 2 CERML).

Hollander Could do it

MeiSooHaityu, on 20 February 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

No I didn't LOL. I actually thought about how bad it would be when the Heavy Metal launched, I don't remember thinking that when the Victor came out. Still, same idea applies regardless of which mech came out first.

Heavy Metal is a 3025 build on TT, The pilot got the extra effects out of it not how it is here IIRC.

[DONTOR]

I think his mind has trouble grasping relativly basic elements of this game.

Sandpit, on 20 February 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

Next you guys will be trying to tell me and expect me to believe that light mechs can mount something as silly as an AC20 or 10!!!

Where do you guys come up with this crazy stuff????

Who would ever do such a thing????

[Tiamat of the Sea]

MeiSooHaityu, on 20 February 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

Although I believe the OP is a troll, I never liked the implementation of JJs on Assault mechs in this game.

When the Highlander was announced, I knew it was a bad idea.

I didn't want Assaults to have the additional manuverability JJs allowed for. I always thought a lack of manuverability was a good down side to piloting an Assault (to even out the higher hitting weapons and additional armor).

The real issues behind this can be much more easily and directly attributed to two things.

First of all, the 'skills' for all 'mechs are the same, and thus all 'mechs are leaning very heavily towards improved mobility with the combination of a 10% increase to maximum speed and double-basic (what, 15%ish? More? Not sure exactly.) increase to turning radius/speed and twisting/arm-movement.

Secondly, at some point (apparently during closed beta, I wasn't here for it but have heard about it) jump jets were altered so that the first jump jet added grants the majority of the lift for the jump, making more than one jump jet often a bad investment of tonnage on a heavier 'mech (such as the Highlander, whose jump jets each weigh two tons). This made it much less tonnage and critical hit slot intensive to grant a 'mech considerable air options than the system of tonnage and critical hit slots and heat was originally designed for (and yes, jump jets do currently generate heat, but the maximum heat on the heat scale is usually so inflated thanks to heat sinks affecting maximum heat as well as heat dissipation rate as to render jump heat unnoticeable).

This would most easily be fixed by not giving maneuverability improvement skills to 'mechs above a certain tonnage or with a certain intended-use profile (what parameters to determine I don't know and it probably would require much testing to determine), and reverting jump jets so that each individual jet on a given 'mech, regardless if it's the first or the last, generates the same degree of upward thrust.

If (when?) both of these things are changed, the method of play in the game will change considerably, particularly as most pop-tarters will have to mount something on the order of 3 jump jets to use most of the locations they are currently hopping up from with one jet (an increase of 2 tons of equipment for the Victor, 4 tons for the Highlander, and a change from one heat point to three heat points for both machines).

An additional point currently operating in favor of poptarting is that collisions currently only deal one damage, no matter the speed or tonnage involved, something that specifically was not done in either tabletop or previous video game iterations of Battletech and Mechwarrior, so as to make things like falling without jump-jet 'cushions' and smacking face-first into every piece of terrain and other 'mech on the field undesirable.

-QKD-CR0

[Bagheera]

DONTOR, on 20 February 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

I think his mind has trouble grasping relativly basic elements of this game.


Who would ever do such a thing????

Me, in closed beta, with a raven. When I killed an Atlas with it the guy was all "Raven with an Ac20, did not see that coming!" Of course now the element of surprise ismostly gone.

Not claiming to be the first by a long shot, but I love mechs like the Hollander and the Hussar, so it seemed natural enough for me.

Besides, I'm the guy that used to go into casual TT games with nothing but several hundred tons of hussars just for the lols.

Edited by Bagheera, 20 February 2014 - 09:28 AM.

[Sandpit]

Can we also see about getting light mechs with stuff like ECM? THAT would be cool!

[Roadbeer]

[Ordellus]

Moogles, on 20 February 2014 - 03:28 AM, said:

You realize these things have been around WAAAY longer than this particular game, right?

You realize what they did in some other game has nothing at all to do with this one unless they choose it to right?

Sandpit, on 20 February 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

Wait...........
You mean to tell me that this has been the case and norm for THIRTY YEARS?!??!?!?!

Ah yes I forgot about the "That's the ways it's been and should always be" argument. That's NEVER been terrible logic.

Holy shit at the level of tard here.

[Ordellus]

Charons Little Helper, on 20 February 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

Infantry carrying rocket launchers? That's stupid! (And do you realize - there are aircraft that weigh FAR more than 100 tons?)

If only a rocket launcher was one of the largest weapons able to be fit onto a vehicle you might not be talking out of your ass.

Get back to me when they have a 5"/25 caliber on the back of a motorcycle.

Edited by Ordellus, 20 February 2014 - 09:48 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Have you considered

Farmville?