21 replies to this topic

[Fluffy Kitten]

well i keep my eyes out in the forums, probably read 2-3 times a week while eating lunch, or dinner.
I have been a founder, and have not played much at all due to the fact that i am still hoping that they will fix some of the basic elements of this game that will make it a good game.
i downloaded the patch and gave it another go.

i am familiar with games like this, i have been successful playing similar games, but this game just has so much potential, but just fails utterly at the basic gameplay that i just dont get it at all.
how is someone in design not fired and a new guy brought in to fix this game and perhaps being in some credibility and change the game so new players will stick around (and perhaps spend money)
this game will not do well with just the die hards spending coin.

i think what is the most obvious thing that i can see is that much of the game play is designed around causal sports and not real warfare.
like getting a bunch of flag football players to go root out terrorists in a hole in Afghanistan.
they may get the job done eventually,. but they dont know any different, so they just do what they think is right.

when i play this game it ALWAYS comes down to some basic thoughts.
"WHY the hell am i restricted from doing ________"
and this question comes up a tonn.
when i drive a mech, i think to myself, "have accountants designed this thing, as surly not someone who has ever been under fire has not"

me:
hey there is a guy over there, I can see him, and he can hit me, as i am taking hits, direct fire hits. so lets shoot him...... nope. cant.
why?
well because I have my MAIN ARMAMENT bolted to the end of my arm, but cannot raise higher than my hip.
soooooooo who the **** thought of that?
ANY ****** who has been in battle would NEVER restrict themselves like that.
the second thing that a pilot would do (if he actually survived the first encounter) would be to blow up his mech, and ask for a better one, one that can actually shoot back!

anyways, that was just one of many examples that come up, that are just plain old ********.


the one thing that this game does do that i am very happy about, is generate interst in stompy robots.
i was really really wishing that this game would be enjoyable, and last a little while.
but i am keeping my eye on other games that spring up and perhaps get it right.

i have dropped well over 500 bucks into good games with this style of FtP model, (WoT has eaten up over 1000,) and i have no problem spending my hard earned money on wasting my time, if it is enjoyable.
this game definitely needs some fixing before it becomes a good unfrusterating game.

Edited by Fluffy Kitten, 21 February 2014 - 03:28 PM.

[Jonny Slam]

Maybe take a break Fluffy, and then come back.

But keep in mind that the orig table-top version this game springs from was deeply flawed and wonky when it comes to realistic combat. Back in the 80's I remember people fell into two categories when they first played; 1) they realized much of what you mentioned and other things like missiles with a 1k range and threw their hands up. 2) they realized much of what you mentioned and other things like missiles with a 1k range and laughed.

At that point party 1 would usually walk away, and party 2 would start cranking down learning the byzantine rules because common sense wasn't going to do the trick.

Really this is space opera with giant machines, there is no more concrete basis in reality then there is in a game of chess. Both games give you a arbitrary framework of rules that you first try to master and then scenarios for you to attempt to impose your will on. Of course the plus with mechwarrior is the massive, deep and outlandish setting. But if you can't make peace with that setting its going to be hard to enjoy yourself, which sucks.

Maybe if you mixed your game play with a more hyper realistic game and MWO you could find a balance. I hope you stick around as we need all the founders we can get buddy

Edited by Jonny Slam, 21 February 2014 - 03:57 PM.

[Koniving]

Battletech Battlemechs can raise their arms accordingly. However, in Mechwarrior how would you go about it?
A button that raises your arm for that purpose -- but then limits you from aiming horizontally? Seems like a good idea, but there's people that already complain about how complex the controls are and how terrible learning them is.
Or would it be something automatic based on the trajectory to the target and something being in the way? That's easy in an offline environment, on an online environment it provides some serious 'ghost' hitbox issues if the enemy doesn't see that your arms raised or sees it after the fact that you put them back down.

PGI went the simple route. Though I wish it went that route with the heat system.

[Dramborleg]

There are a lot of things worth complaining about in this game, but you brought up none of them. Also this isn't the board for complaining.

Yes Battlemechs would be highly impractical for combat in real life. This is not real life. A good game empowers the player, but it also restricts them, challenging them to learn the mechanics and improve.

I assume that in saying that you've played similar games you mean something like Hawken. I have nothing against that game, but it is not really the same sort of giant robot game that MechWarrior is.

[Ace Selin]

Its a game afterall and adding real world complexity would make the gameplay akin to trying to fly a modern fighter jet - something very few could accomplish and fewer still master.

Its a game made to be fun, for as large an audience as possible. So a simple suggestion for you, why not play a mech that restricts you less and allows you to play more to youre liking... such as a Jagermech?

[Ridersofdoom]

Quote

Yes Battlemechs would be highly impractical for combat in real life

real life? this is a science fiction game, everything that happens here is a thousand years in the future, from that point you should see the game.

Quote

real world complexity

this is killing the game, to put into perspective read what we were doing thousand years ago and what we could do in the same time scale in the future.

Edited by Ridersofdoom, 22 February 2014 - 03:46 PM.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Also the OP obviously has no concept of military history, as it is full of people going to war with weapons which were less than optimal.

It really looks like the OP sucks due to his long breaks and wants to find things to nitpick on rather than face that. In other words, if the devs suck, then it's no fault of his if he does as well.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Ridersofdoom, on 22 February 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

Yes Battlemechs would be highly impractical for combat in real life

real life? this is a science fiction game, everything that happens here is a thousand years in the future, from that point you should see the game

real world complexity

this is killing the game, to put into perspective read what we were doing thousand years ago and what we could do in the same time scale in the future.

Physics won't change, two legs are inherently less stable than a 3+ wheeled vehicle or a tracked one.

Even in TT, the only reason a Mech was superior to a tank was the lack of accuracy in targeting specific areas of the mech.

[Ridersofdoom]

Quote

Physics won't change

wow ohh man, history teaches the opposite, read something about Isaac Newton ( Philosophiae naturalis principia mathematica ) and what Einstein said 200 years after.

history below

http://en.wikipedia....oric_inventions

[Nick Makiaveli]

Ridersofdoom, on 22 February 2014 - 04:16 PM, said:

wow ohh man, history teaches the opposite, read something about Isaac Newton ( Philosophiae naturalis principia mathematica ) and what Einstein said 200 years after.

history below

http://en.wikipedia....oric_inventions

Epic fail. That isn't physics changing, it's man's understanding of physics changing.

Sure, we will know more about strings, and all that quantum stuff in a thousand years (assuming civilization doesn't collapse then) but that won't change how gravity works on it's basic levels.

[Ridersofdoom]

Quote

how gravity works on it's basic levels.

if you start from there, you will have the problem that hasPGI with MWO, and a totally wrong concept of the future.

A question, do you know this plane? Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit

this plane should fly or not? with physical laws you mentioned earlier.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Nick Makiaveli, on 22 February 2014 - 04:30 PM, said:

Epic fail. That isn't physics changing, it's man's understanding of physics changing.

That works both ways - who is to say that our understanding of physics will not someday make all that possible?

[Nick Makiaveli]

Ridersofdoom, on 22 February 2014 - 04:58 PM, said:

if you start from there, you will have the problem that hasPGI with MWO, and a totally wrong concept of the future.

A question, do you know this plane? Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit

this plane should fly or not? with physical laws you mentioned earlier.

BT has long had issues with reality, but this is a game and thus we have to have a certain level of suspension of belief.

As to the plane, it either does or does not. Some people said the "flying wing" wouldn't work, but it did. Applying the laws are a matter for engineers. Again, this is a game.

The argument is devolving at this point. BT is sci-fi, let's leave it at that. Or not. Your call.

Shar Wolf, on 22 February 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

That works both ways - who is to say that our understanding of physics will not someday make all that possible?

I see what you did there.

However, I did say "basic levels" as in if you throw something it will fall etc.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Nick Makiaveli, on 22 February 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

However, I did say "basic levels" as in if you throw something it will fall etc.

That is assuming we actually really know how gravity - or those other basic things - work

A lot of bad math works - and works for years, until someone finds that one equation that shuts it down.
(for the record I think we have a pretty good idea of how it works - but it helps to keep an open mind)


Edit:
For all we know there is a planet out there where there is no gravity - or where gravity as we know it works backwards.
As unlikely as that sounds (what would be holding it together? since gravity is what we currently thing is holding the planet together - or one of the things - it should fly apart!) we don't know it's not out there.

Edited by Shar Wolf, 22 February 2014 - 06:08 PM.

[John E Slam]

Nick Makiaveli, on 22 February 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

Also the OP obviously has no concept of military history, as it is full of people going to war with weapons which were less than optimal.

It really looks like the OP sucks due to his long breaks and wants to find things to nitpick on rather than face that. In other words, if the devs suck, then it's no fault of his if he does as well.

NIc, normally I enjoy your imput and advice.

But in this case I really think your out of line, there is no call to insult this guy and question his ability. Come on man your better then that.

I think that fluffy has every right to his opinion, which we can challenge in a decent way, and maybe point out some options. It does not help the game to jump on somebody who is not happy with it.

It's pretty clear to me that Fluffy was not someone trolling or trying to inflame, he sounds bummed and disappointed, which are hardly reasons to abuse him, especially after he took the time to make the post.

No hard feelings I hope, but you missed the target here mate.

Many slams,

Jonny

[John E Slam]

Ridersofdoom, on 22 February 2014 - 04:58 PM, said:

if you start from there, you will have the problem that hasPGI with MWO, and a totally wrong concept of the future.

A question, do you know this plane? Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit

this plane should fly or not? with physical laws you mentioned earlier.

Rider, Nic,

Would you two please take it outside? way off track of the OP's issues and this smells a bit like a pissing contest eh?

Clearly your both very smart alright? nuff said.

Edited by John E Slam, 22 February 2014 - 06:55 PM.

[Jonny Slam]

also, sorry for posting with secondary account there folks, doh!

[Kiahoga]

I have a feeling this guys has never played any Mech Warrior or Battle tech game because hed have the same issue with everyone of them

[Buckminster]

But there are always going to be those of us that have a mental vision of a MW game - one that is a mech simulator and not a mech-themed FPS.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy MW:O, but I also really long for a full blown simulator. I even think of games like the old Chromehounds - it had a much slower feel to it that I really enjoyed.

Edited by Buckminster, 22 February 2014 - 07:57 PM.

[Hammerhai]

Any one of you guys ever play Star Fleet Battles? The physics and the speed of light are bent WAY out of shape, but it works as a game. And those who know it will remember the fights over rules and their complexity, but it was fun. Aaahyes. Wargaming the way she ought to be.

But that has been said above. Either way I am going to add to the voices that you believed in this game enough to go Founder. Hope you stick around or at least visit.

Edited by Hammerhai, 23 February 2014 - 01:36 AM.