51 replies to this topic

[LauLiao]

Bishop113, on 22 February 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:

My K/D is fine, exactly where I want my K/D in any competitive game, but my win/loss ratio at least in my eyes is abysmal. Nearly 1:1 is just not a great ratio, to me this translates to having fun half the time I play this game, the other half is the worst thing ever!

I've found your problem and I have an easy solution for you:

1) Quit
2) Find a single player game
3) Never lose
4) Profit

If your going to consider any match you lose "the worst thing ever" then you're not interested in multi-player competitive gaming. A 50/50 win/loss split is exactly around where it should be.

[Deathlike]

There are pretty much 3 ways I know to "not" hate this game, but whether you want to take it seriously is up to you.

1) Accept dying. Learn to play the game somewhat by specing other people and ask questions. The newbie support forum exists and that hopefully will get you started. However, it's always best to "follow" a player while dead to see how the player is successful. Many things you won't pick up immediately, but over time, you'll get better. Don't worry about your k-d or w-l ratio until you actually become competent (essentially, you should be able to be close to getting a kill every match and not die outright in the first few minutes of the match due to bad placement/tactics).

At the very beginning, it's better to hide behind or stay behind/next to a teammate and fire what he's firing at for a bit. Once you get better, you won't need to rely in it as much, but it's still critical in the sense that by then you can help your teammates better.

2) Find people to play with and invest in voice communication such as Teamspeak 3. Even if you don't have a mic, people are more than willing to help you out, whether it is builds or trying to explain how you should go about engaging the enemy. Not everything is natural to a player, so it helps to just practice being more patent and learning when to fight and what to get the heck out of the fight.

3) Learn to use smurfy's mechlab (just google "MWO Mechlab" and it's usually the first thing that comes up). That is the best place to build stuff... now obviously it's all theoretical until you play the game, but it helps give you an idea of what you can and cannot build and make sure that every c-bill you spend is worthwhile (because it's an expensive commitment to pay for an XL engine). In part with #2, you can learn to build your own mech while understanding that there will always be drawback or limitations in your design, so you need to keep in mind when you are building it. Smurfy's mechlab is an invaluable resource AND gives you more than just a mechlab.... so take advantage of the information you are given.

Hopefully, this is useful to you.

Edited by Deathlike, 23 February 2014 - 10:51 AM.

[Sandpit]

Bishop113, on 22 February 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:

My K/D is fine, exactly where I want my K/D in any competitive game, but my win/loss ratio at least in my eyes is abysmal. Nearly 1:1 is just not a great ratio, to me this translates to having fun half the time I play this game, the other half is the worst thing ever!

Your stats look pretty darn good to me. You're doing REALLY well if you've got those stats pugging a lot. If you REALLY want to "get to the next level" you're going to have to think about joining a team because teamwork (and this is regardless of voip, we have several players that my unit drops with that aren't on voip but still prefer to drop in premades) is what's going to be the deciding factor at that point. Your individual skill looks to be pretty good but you can only do so much as one player.

heck even in a 4man it's hard to carry a team if need be. A few teammates and I had a few games this weekend where the 3 of us (we were only a 3man) had over 2000 damage and 5, 6, and 8 kills yet we STILL lost lol I mean think about that. 3 players did 2000+ damage AND killed 3/4 of the enemy team on our own (and no we didn't hang back and jsut scoop up some easy kills, we waded in from the get go and just used some teamwork and coordination) and our team still lost.

It's the pug lottery (no insults intended, just the fact that you have no control over the teammates you drop with) Sometimes you win, sometimes you get back in line and buy another ticket lol

In all seriousness though I'd suggest taking a look at the different units recruiting and/or joining a teamspeak server.

[Sephlock]

Use UAVs, a well placed UAV can turn the tide (if only because teammates will respond to pretty red triangles more than any amount of words of wisdom).

[xhrit]

Bishop113, on 22 February 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:

My K/D is fine, exactly where I want my K/D in any competitive game, but my win/loss ratio at least in my eyes is abysmal. Nearly 1:1 is just not a great ratio, to me this translates to having fun half the time I play this game, the other half is the worst thing ever!

It's just maddening! And as someone who doesn't like matching with other players it's just a hugely frustrating experience and because there's no other option for a mechwarrior style experience I feel like I have to just keep ramming my head into this brick wall and try to savor the victories no matter how spread out and random they feel.

So basically, you hate loosing... and if you are not winning, you are not having fun?

If you are winning 50% of the time, then matchmaker is doing its job.

Is what you call a 'mechwarrior style' experience one where you godmode through some easymode pve with no chance whatsoever of dying?

[Hauser]

no one, on 22 February 2014 - 10:51 PM, said:

Reading your link now. It looks like they're homogenizing the ELO of each side and then applying changes to each individuals ELO for the win or loss, based on the average ELO of each side. However, it doesn't look like they're scaling your ELO change based on your individual contribution to the win or loss. Essentially, you'd have to be enough of a burden or positive force to sway the entire outcome of the match before the ELO change really reflected your individual skill. That really doesn't seem like a great way to do it either. If they raised or lowered your ELO using (homogenized ELO change)*(your match score / average match score) you'd be getting a much better approximation of a player's overall skill.

No. Indeed. The change in Elo rating is only scaled for the difficulty of the match. (eg. the difference between the average Elo of both teams). Using match score would only throw Elo off anyway. Match score measures input, not how that input was applied. You can get a great match score and by doing so lose the match. You don't need to measure an individuals contribution in a match anyway. Elo works that out in long run just fine.

You're playing against presumed equals. So if you are a poor performer and contribute little to winning, you'll find that often your team is just a bit weaker and likely to lose (you being the constant factor in all teams you are on). The other players they'll suffer losing once but otherwise in other match ups they'll be better.

Just a simple illustration.

Each player and his contribution to the win:
A = 5, B = 5, C = 5, D = 3.

D is the obvious under performer here.

Possible matches up:
AB | CD = 10 vs 8
AC | BD = 8 vs 10
AD | BC = 10 vs 8

Outcomes:
A wins 2/3 matches
B wins 2/3 matches
C wins 2/3 matches
D wins 0/3 matches

So D will be quickly demoted to a lower Elo rating. The same works for a player that has a bigger contribution on winning.

Beyond that there is little to worry about Elo. You can't see the number, you can't do anything with it. If you want to win looking at it won't help you. You have to analyze and improve your own playing style for that. If you're worried about poor players on your team, just realize that if you want to move up you'll have to be good enough to carry people.

Edited by Hauser, 24 February 2014 - 05:17 AM.

[Mechteric]

The Elo based matchmaker actually wants you to have a 1:1 win/loss ratio. Its designed that way more or less to try to give a fair game to each team. Of course tonnage limits not being present hampers a lot, but in general it appears to be doing whats its supposed to do if you have close to a 1:1 ratio of wins to losses.

[Sandpit]

CapperDeluxe, on 24 February 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

The Elo based matchmaker actually wants you to have a 1:1 win/loss ratio..

That's a misconception in my opinion. Elo wants you to face opponents close to your own skill level. Your individual skill levels determine the w/l and kdr.

[meteorol]

Bishop113, on 22 February 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:

My K/D is fine, exactly where I want my K/D in any competitive game, but my win/loss ratio at least in my eyes is abysmal. Nearly 1:1 is just not a great ratio, to me this translates to having fun half the time I play this game, the other half is the worst thing ever!

So what exactly is it that you want this game to do for you? Give you, and only you gold ammo that oneshots everyone and makes you win every single game with 12 kills? Never lose again?

I mean seriously, what do you want to change. You are playing a player vs player multiplayer game.
There are two sides. If one side gets the win, the other side will have to lose. That's just how things work.
Let me tell you this, if you win, other guys have to lose. They don't like it aswell.


You have to realize that you can't carry your team. Now matter how hard you try, you won't be able win the match on your own.
If your team fails hard, there is really not much you can do about it. Do your best, and if you feel like your performance was ok, just ignore the fact you lost.

My W/L ratio is 1.17, which is also close to 1:1, while having a Global K/D of 3.10, averaging around 500 dmg per match on my most used mechs. While my individual numbers are decent, the W/L ratio is still close to 1.
And to be honest, that's how it should be. If the ELO system really works, we should play against people who are as good as we are most of the time (MM fails aside). A w/l ratio close to 1 against guys who are as good as you are is nothing to feel ashamed about.

Edited by meteorol, 24 February 2014 - 11:28 AM.

[xTrident]

You're just going to have to take a step back and accept that you won't win matches all on your own. Because I'm more of a random player in all the multiplayer games I play, especially team based ones I don't fret over my win/loss ratio. Do like me and care more about your own personal stats rather than overall because you have a lot more control over that. My win/loss ratio isn't very good, but my base stats, specifically K/D ratio isn't terrible. At least not in my opinion. I'm continuing to try to improve my average damage done within each mech as well as my other personal stats. I figure, if my average damage done per match as well as my K/D is decent I'm doing my part to win these matches.

So, when I say, "Just concern yourself with your stats.," I'm not saying hide out and wait to vulture kills to improve your K/D and make it look like you're doing more than you are. I'm saying, if your with a less than stellar team you mine as well try to work with them as best as possible to help yourself out. And if you're not going to win, as in it's blatantly obvious a win isn't coming you mine as well go on damage control for yourself to try and keep the frustration down as much as possible. Typically my worst matches go hand in hand with the team in it's entirety getting our asses kicked. It's not just me. But, like I kind of stated... A better team is a better team and you probably won't win a match like that, you just won't. You're just going to have to learn to let matches like that go. Typically if the team I'm on is getting slaughtered I just hope I can get one kill before I die. If I can do that I don't end that match on such a frustrated note.

Edited by xTrident, 24 February 2014 - 12:38 PM.

[Mercy Killing]

My reason for hating it is probably more because I'm just bad, but I'll share what it -feels- like, anyway.

I only own three Jagers. The DD, the Firebrand and the S model. (Shop Smart, shop S-Mart!!) With the exception of the Firebrand, I've added all the armor I can to the torso areas, but it still feels like I'm made of paper tissue when it comes to firefights, whereas, even with twin Gauss rifles punching and hitting other mechs, it feels like I'm not doing a damn thing as far as damage goes. It takes forever for me to bring someone down (even if they're in a light or medium mech), but all it takes is three to five hits and I'm cored, even after making my torso area 50/10, 74/10, 50/10 for left, center, right.

Looking at the numbers I can see how say...an AC 20 can get through and crit in four hits center, three left or right..but with a pair of Gauss rifles I'm finding it hard to even cripple legs, and the forums are littered with people saying they've taken armor off the legs.

I'm just finding it odd that I cannot do the same kind of damage to mechs that's being done to me, no matter WHAT weapons I use. I've got a quad-AC2 Jager that simply melts under enemy fire, despite having the same torso values. Meh...I guess this game was just a waste of my time. I'm sorry I put money into it.

[meteorol]

Mercy Killing, on 24 February 2014 - 10:05 PM, said:

My reason for hating it is probably more because I'm just bad, but I'll share what it -feels- like, anyway.

I only own three Jagers. The DD, the Firebrand and the S model. (Shop Smart, shop S-Mart!!) With the exception of the Firebrand, I've added all the armor I can to the torso areas, but it still feels like I'm made of paper tissue when it comes to firefights, whereas, even with twin Gauss rifles punching and hitting other mechs, it feels like I'm not doing a damn thing as far as damage goes. It takes forever for me to bring someone down (even if they're in a light or medium mech), but all it takes is three to five hits and I'm cored, even after making my torso area 50/10, 74/10, 50/10 for left, center, right.

Looking at the numbers I can see how say...an AC 20 can get through and crit in four hits center, three left or right..but with a pair of Gauss rifles I'm finding it hard to even cripple legs, and the forums are littered with people saying they've taken armor off the legs.

I'm just finding it odd that I cannot do the same kind of damage to mechs that's being done to me, no matter WHAT weapons I use. I've got a quad-AC2 Jager that simply melts under enemy fire, despite having the same torso values. Meh...I guess this game was just a waste of my time. I'm sorry I put money into it.

The jager is not a mech suited well to get into a 1on1, especially with havier mechs, it's more a support mech. Play it like that. Don't make the first move. I had to learn this the hard way, because i was used to play my Highlander, capable of taking any mech in a 1on1.

I guess you are using XL engines (don't think double gauss would fit without) so decent pilots will go for your side torso. Pretty much everyone shoots the side torso of a jager because 90% of the jager pilots use xl engines. This makes it a very fragile mech. The boomjager (2x ac20) is a very dangerous mech if ignored, but can be taken down in seconds because he can't shield his side torso.
When playing a jager with a xl engine, you have to accept it's a glass cannon.
Once you do this, and play it to its strenghts, it will shine.

As for shooting legs: Guys take armor of the legs, that is true. But the question is how much. An atlas can take quite a bit of leg armor off and still have 60 on each leg. Shooting legs is really gambling. If the enemy has it lowered so far that you can leg him before he cores you, it's nice. But if you "test" his legs just to see they are not underarmored and eat a alpha to your torso in return, you got a bad deal.

On double Gauss: I'm running a double Guss jager myself. It works, but you need to be patient. Mine has a K/D of 4.12 while dealing 457 average damage per match. The most important thing is that you learn to always hit the same location.
The double Gauss is really like a scalpel. Check out what section of your enemy is already damaged and detach it. If you distribute your gauss slugs all over the enemy mech, it will take forever to kill him. Take your time to aim carefully and you will kill much faster.

Quad ac2 : you might want to try 3x UAC5 and 2 medium laser, works alot better than 4x ac2 in my opinion

You can do the same damage that is done to you. If you hit an enemy mech with all your fire, he has the same armor values and similar firepower like you, and you still die, it's simply because your enemy had better aim and hit you where it hurts whereas you probably did spread your damage. Or you ran into a 1vs2 situation, which no mech will survive for a long time.

Be patient and work on your aim, situational awareness and movement. Get to know the weak point of each mech. Learn which mech typically use XL engines. Which part of the enemy mech holds his most dangerous weapons?
Trust me, you will get better in this game and enemies will drop. It's just a matter of exercise.

[Zolaz]

The problem isnt the OP, it is the Matchmaker that stacks the deck against you so that you should be losing half the time. There is only so much you can do when PGI is trolling you for half the games. Learn to like losing and having the worst players in the game on your team and you will be ok.

[Sandpit]

Zolaz, on 25 February 2014 - 12:20 AM, said:

The problem isnt the OP, it is the Matchmaker that stacks the deck against you so that you should be losing half the time. There is only so much you can do when PGI is trolling you for half the games. Learn to like losing and having the worst players in the game on your team and you will be ok.

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight lol

Elo matches you with players of similar skill level. If you can't beat those players that's not he MM's fault nor is it some evil nefarious Elo system preventing you from winning half your games.........
What happens is you beat players until your skill level pits you against players of equal or slightly greater skill. Then you lose.

[Sephlock]

Zolaz, on 25 February 2014 - 12:20 AM, said:

The problem isnt the OP, it is the Matchmaker that stacks the deck against you so that you should be losing half the time. There is only so much you can do when PGI is trolling you for half the games. Learn to like losing and having the worst players in the game on your team and you will be ok.

I uh...

Okay...

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Its all a matter of perspective. You say 1:1 win/loss is bad but for example some of the best SC2 players in the world win only 45%-55% of their games. Maintaining 1:1 against strong players is an accomplishment.

In order for you to have better than 1:1 the game has to feed you weaker players and thats no fun for them.

[Roughneck45]

Sandpit, on 25 February 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight lol

Elo matches you with players of similar skill level. If you can't beat those players that's not he MM's fault nor is it some evil nefarious Elo system preventing you from winning half your games.........
What happens is you beat players until your skill level pits you against players of equal or slightly greater skill. Then you lose.

It tries to.

When it cant get 24 players in a close skill range, it will bring in lower ELO players to balance the teams.

When a team I am on or fighting against has 3 or more champion mechs, the MM has failed. Even one is unacceptable IMO. Ive seen people in games that don't know the difference between arm and torso weapons, won't or don't know how to target mechs, continuously firing LRMs under 180 meters or without a lock, same with PPCs under 90m, and many other things that are all signs of a new player.

There is nothing wrong with their skills, we were all new at one point, but players like this should not be grouped with high ELO players. It is not even close to fair, for them or the vets.

Every once in a while the MM will give you a great game with even skilled teams, but those are few and far between and rely heavily on peak play times. I think the biggest culprit is a small player base.

Edited by Roughneck45, 25 February 2014 - 07:21 PM.

[Sephlock]

The more parentheses are on your team, the more likely you are to lose.

(The Founder and Phoenix variants tend to be the worst ones of the bunch, so they count too- just less so than trial mechs. And yes, I am aware of the Centurion giveaway ;P.)

[Viges]

LauLiao, on 23 February 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

I've found your problem and I have an easy solution for you:

1) Quit
2) Find a single player game
3) Never lose
4) Profit

If your going to consider any match you lose "the worst thing ever" then you're not interested in multi-player competitive gaming. A 50/50 win/loss split is exactly around where it should be.

[wanderer]

If you PUG, you are at the mercy of a matchmaker which will do it's darndest to screw you over on a regular basis to give you that 50% or so W/L record.

Seriously. It's gotten to the point where I can guess who's got the advantage just by seeing what they slapped on my team.

And don't even talking about it being a real MM. I see rank newbies regularly stuck in matches where they'll be lucky to do double-digit damage, much less kill something.

Edited by wanderer, 26 February 2014 - 07:18 AM.