38 replies to this topic

[JeepStuff]

I wish you hadn't put the "let's all TK to force a change" bit at the end, because otherwise I completely agree with the post. I personally don't think friendly fire is a big issue, but at the same time, I don't hate the idea of making it clear how much friendly fire you were imparting on your teammates so that it helps you learn and grow.

So I like all the suggestions up to, but NOT including, being a ****.

[Daggett]

No Remorse, on 22 February 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

Sorry dude, no one has a right to complain about anything unless they are willing to force the change, Life 101.

Sorry dude, this is a game, not the arab spring or the Ukraine. There is absolutely no need to 'force' anything by violating the rules.

The ONLY way it goes is that each of us gives feedback. And if enough people give negative feedback on one topic you can be sure that PGI will have several meetings to discuss the issue.

So complaining already get things going, and you must be blind to not see the several things where complaining alone has changed something. Take ECM or consumables design for example. Both sucked at first but have then be improved just because enough people complained about it. And because complaining works we will get a smurfy-like mechlab.

No Remorse, on 22 February 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

Complaining for 2 years about this to PGI has done NOTHING, guess what complainging will continue to do NOTHING. PGI understands one thing only MASS whining and belly aching, they have proven this time and time again.

And said the above things here is the reason why nothing has changed the past 1.5 years:
There is NO urgent problem with FF. Sorry my friend, but just because you and some others don't like it, you are NOT speaking for the entire community. FF never was a big issue.

You are right, MASS whining does the trick and all your 'force them, do TK-ing' blah-blah is targeting at exactly this thing. You want the community to mass-whine about FF. This is shabby. So stop talking BS and just write what you don't like. If other's think similar you will eventually see a change. No one likes to be manipulated by stupid polemic speeches.

No Remorse, on 22 February 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

Frankly, if you are not wiilling to put your FREE account on the line to get PGI to make beneficial changes to the game, you are part of the problem, not the solution.

And here we have another stupid polemic phrase. Seriously, stop this. It's the same BS idiots like George "whoever is not with us is against us" Bush would say. Get rational and speak rational. Then people will take you seriously.

Edit:
I almost forgot to give my own opinion on the topic:
We are playing in Mechs with VERY limited sight. In normal twitch-shooters you can instantly see in every direction and even there you will have occasional FF.

It is absolutely normal that people don't always see where they are running, especially because we can move in a DIFFERENT direction than we look at.

So i am against any punishing of FF. It is part of how the game works and can not be avoided entirely even with the highest possible penalties. In this game even the most experienced players will quite often shoot friendlies or run into their shots by design. And it's okay.

And don't you dare to compare a totally unrealistic game with real military operations...

Edited by Daggett, 22 February 2014 - 12:54 PM.

[HammerSwarm]

What is this discussion about?

If you run in front of some one and they shoot you, your fault you die sooner.

If some one runs in front of you and you shoot them and they die you get penalized.

Other than penalizing both people what are you going to do?

Turning off friendly fire would be a stupid and unrealistic thing to do.

[Cavendish]

Thorn Hallis, on 22 February 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

Most of the team damage I do goes to teammates that run into my shots. Why should I get fined just because they think its a brilliant idea to run through the firing path of a friendly 'Mech? Would they do it on a live firing range too?

Not on a fire range, but in combat certainly. Its your job to shoot at the enemy while paying attention to where your team is. Accidents will happen but people with max zoom holding down the trigger are just as much to blame.

[Cavendish]

Daggett, on 22 February 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

And don't you dare to compare a totally unrealistic game with real military operations...

So because its a game we should not "dare" to try to enforce responsibility for actions? That is a rediculous statement.

[Funky Bacon]

There is little excuse to shoot an ally unless they are a fast mech that run in front of you just as you lined up your shot with no time to react to his sudden appearance. or if someone decides to run straight in front of your face while you are quite visually shooting at an enemy. Accidents does ofc happen but there ways to reduce the chance of that happening.

To pilots who get shot by allies, best way to avoid getting shot by allies is try to walk behind him so he can fire without risk of hitting you. Chances is he trying to line up a shot or is peppering the enemy with everything he got, so don't suddenly run into his line of fire. And be aware that his LoS may be very limited, often due to zoom. Be mindful of that when running close to an ally.
Also, don't face-hug the enemy. No one wants to hold fire cause you decided to block the firing range of everyone on your team and preventing them for helping you with hitting said target.

Snipers, please be aware of your allies location and try to make sure no friendly is about to hit your line of fire as you are about to shoot.

[Goose of Prey]

No Remorse: first let me say I understand the frustration. We’ve all been cored in the back at the start of the match, or walked in front of someone shooting at nothing, and yea it sucks.

That said, we need to keep in mind the game is tilted toward encouraging friendly fire. Savior Kill Bonuses (SKB’s) are a big source of C-bills right now. The SKB motivates the player to focus fire and assist teammates that are under attack.

However, the weapons of MW:O are not always spot on target. There are three or more moving objects, one shooting, trying to keep on target, with others moving, in at best, a semi-coordinated manner around the firefight, also shooting. There is going to be some friendly splash damage in this dance, no way around it.

This leaves us with two basic choices.

First create a serious penalty for friendly fire damage (FFD) and risk your teammates NOT throwing in supportive fire when you need it. I think that’s the opposite direction we want things to go. We need to encourage players to support each other; it helps to make the game more enjoyable for everyone.

Or

We keep the same system we have now.

A compromise could give us a third option.

Throw in a penalty for excessive damage. Still, I think people will hesitate to lend fire support when it’s needed the most.

Please do not take this as a defense of players shooting or walking without care. We should inform people when they are being too loose with the fire discipline, and or, not checking the mini map to see where a friendly could be shooting.

I can’t see PGI doing anything about FFD until the number of people playing is much higher.

[Daggett]

Cavendish, on 22 February 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

So because its a game we should not "dare" to try to enforce responsibility for actions? That is a rediculous statement.

Looks like i phrased that a bit misleading and not detailed enough.
I wrote that from a practical perspective.

What i meant was unlike in real military operation we have too much tasks to make the correct calls.

For instance most military vehicles like tanks have multiple crewmen each responsible for specific actions.
If this game (and the BT universe) would be realistic, a mech would require at least the same crew as a tank does. This way you don't have to care about moving, firing and observing the tactical situation all by yourself.

We don't have a buddy who avoids running into friendly lines of fire while we are concentrating on taking out an enemy. And when in 4x zoom we also don't have a spotter who can warn us when an ally crosses our line of fire.

Games simply are not realistic enough to give us the tools we need to do our stuff on a 'military level' so it would be unfair to enforce a similar responsibility.

And MWO even is by far no simulation. It's an arcade game with some simulation elements. A real mech simulation would feel much, much differently and would still be unable to mirror reality in a suitable way.

Therefore accidental FF will happen regularly and too harsh punishment would not improve this.

Edited by Daggett, 22 February 2014 - 02:23 PM.

[PhoenixFire55]

No Remorse, on 22 February 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

Every point of damage done to a friendly is deducted from the total damage the player has done during the battle. Display this on the summary screen in brackets i.e. Damage 300(-75).

Make it -3 for each point of FF damage.

No Remorse, on 22 February 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

Along with that add a Team Damage Repair penalty of 1000 cbills per point and an xp deduction per point.

Yes.

Still, sometimes the one who does FF damage isn't always to blame. When I'm running lights sometimes I just have to run through friendly laser lines and such to avoid getting even more damage from the enemy. This is a complicated issue, but I fully agree FF should be penalized hard.

[no one]

No Remorse, on 22 February 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

Friendly damage in this game is still WAY out of control. For a "simulation" of battle it is absolutely unacceptable, so here is how to fix it.

Every point of damage done to a friendly is deducted from the total damage the player has done during the battle. Display this on the summary screen in brackets i.e. Damage 300(-75).

Along with that add a Team Damage Repair penalty of 1000 cbills per point and an xp deduction per point.

I'll agree to an extent. Friendly fire should be handled on a per damage basis, but the team kill penalty should then be removed. There are many instances where it is simply not your fault that you killed a friendly. In fact, if I'm running a fast 'Mech and have a wall of LRMs chasing me, I'll gleefully hug a nice shady enemy assault until the rain dies down. There are also cases where you scratch off the last scrap of a fast moving friendly's structure with a laser because they orbit or jet into your line of fire. So base the penalty on the raw damage dealt to friendlies, and have it's multiplier be two to six times what you get for doing damage to enemies.

I'd also like to see 'assist' bonuses with a requisite minimum damage dealt, but that's neither here nor there.

Edited by no one, 22 February 2014 - 02:46 PM.

[Moromillas]

No Remorse, on 22 February 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

Moromillas, you accused me of being juvenile, then admit you tattle on people when they break your virtual self-replicating toy??? You must have a wonderful panoramic view from your house.

If you could only understand what a loaded questions is, then you would understand how juvenile your question is. That, and putting multiple questions marks. When you post things like this in rapid succession, why would you be surprised when you're viewed as juvenile? I mean really, do we need to look back at what you've posted here?

I'm very proud to have reported those griefers. It means that PGI was able to look into it faster, determine if anything should be done, and take griefers out of the game faster, so that the community can continue playing without their aggravation. We're not little kids here, and it's not akin to stealing a cookie. So, hopefully you can see why your analogy of "being a tattle tale" might be laughed at.

[Name115734]

Childlike wonder is wonderful thing, except when viewed from the eyes of a cynic.

You, sir, stand so proud and tall up on your pedestal, you cannot even bother to look down to see there is no pedestal there at all.

[Craig Steele]

Heavenly war, on 22 February 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

people have been walking in front of me so much more this month than any other time i've been playing this game. Don't expect me to stop whaling on someone just so you can slowly walk passed me or even stop and start attacking the person i was. It's like crossing a street in real life. LOOK BEFORE YOU WALK. plain and simple. i don't understand how that's so damn difficult.

LOLOLOLOL, seriously???

Someone walks into your field of fire and you keep shooting ?

And the guy who started this thread complaining about getting shot by team mates and TK's likes your comment?

Both you guys seem to suffer from "I can do no wrong" and "it's everyone elses fault". If you shoot them its their fault for not looking, if you get shot by them it's their fault for not holding fire while you wandered across their line.

Hard to take this thread seriously now. Just trolling are we boys?

[Name115734]

Craig Steele, on 23 February 2014 - 03:57 AM, said:

Hard to take this thread seriously now. Just trolling are we boys?

You did read the first paragraph, right?

[GRiPSViGiL]

I must agree with no remorse. It takes skill to not be some button masher who take no regard for their surroundings or firing lanes.

[Funky Bacon]

Craig Steele, on 23 February 2014 - 03:57 AM, said:

LOLOLOLOL, seriously???

Someone walks into your field of fire and you keep shooting ?

And the guy who started this thread complaining about getting shot by team mates and TK's likes your comment?

Both you guys seem to suffer from "I can do no wrong" and "it's everyone elses fault". If you shoot them its their fault for not looking, if you get shot by them it's their fault for not holding fire while you wandered across their line.

Hard to take this thread seriously now. Just trolling are we boys?

Why would you walk in front of someone that is laying down fire on an enemy? Walk behind him if you absolutely have to cross his path. But okay, if you cross his path at around 300+ meters away, I can understand and he should have seen you coming and hold fire. But some people love crossing someones path at paint scratching range, which if you do, it's your fault if you get shot.

[hercules1981]

No Remorse, on 22 February 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

I always play in premades, always. It still happens, with other members shooting through the back to get the the enemy, inadvertently or otherwise.

Only reason it happens Is because u r blocking fire form your teammates to get the kill yourself u can tell where your teammates r by the radar if it looks like he is behind u move to the side a bit let him fire at the enemy as well unless u r blocking for a reason, then take some fire to the back cause I'm still gonna make an attempt at killing the enemy.

[Craig Steele]

No Remorse, on 23 February 2014 - 04:02 AM, said:

You did read the first paragraph, right?

OFC,

Edited by Craig Steele, 24 February 2014 - 05:26 AM.

[Mechteric]

Obvious penalties would be good, since currently even if you kill an opponent you might miss that you got docked for it in the summary screen.

Also, we need an audio AND visual cue that we just harmed a friendly. Planetside 2 is the perfect example since it shows a symbol over your crosshair and a buzzer sound when you hit a friendly. MWO needs a similar system in place!