35 replies to this topic

[StompingOnTanks]

Hi everyone. Just wondering if any of you like to use stock, or almost-stock loadouts.

I personally like stock loadouts and I usually keep my mechs stock for a while before I do any modifications to them, even if they aren't "competitive".

Every once in a while I'll look up the stock loadout on Smurfy and replicate it to test my skills. Maybe I'm just a madman, though.

How about you guys and gals?

[Balsover]

I'd never use one in MWO, because that would be suicide.

BUT, I would completely support a stock only gameplay mode. Way more fun then playing OP weapon of the month.

[StompingOnTanks]

Balsover, on 26 November 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

I'd never use one in MWO, because that would be suicide.

BUT, I would completely support a stock only gameplay mode. Way more fun then playing OP weapon of the month.

That would be nice.

[FupDup]

Honestly, I never really saw the appeal behind stock builds.

A lot of them seem like they were cobbled together by a toddler playing with Legos, rather than being precision-engineered by great military powers trying to destroy each other. Whether it's underarmoed, underengined, overengined, underarmed, overheated, underheated, underammoed, overammoed, using underpowered equipment, placing ammo in vulnerable locations, or whatever else, there seem to always be deliberate and large design flaws within nearly every single stock configuration to date. The only stock loadout that I even care about is the Hellstar, and that's only because it's built like a true war machine rather than a Lego toy.

Edited by FupDup, 26 November 2013 - 08:11 PM.

[Saarna]

FupDup, on 26 November 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

Honestly, I never really saw the appeal behind stock builds.

A lot of them seem like they were cobbled together by a toddler playing with Legos, rather than being precision-engineered by great military powers trying to destroy each other. Whether it's underarmoed, underengined, overengined, underarmed, overheated, underheated, underammoed, overammoed, using underpowered equipment, placing ammo in vulnerable locations, or whatever else, there seem to always be deliberate and large design flaws within nearly every single stock configuration to date.

One has to remember that the stock designs aim for a semblance of realism, taking into consideration the technological, economical and logistical limitations of the lore. While we cram double heatsinks and Endo Steel into practically every 'mech in our possession, combined with a liberal use of XL engines saving countless tons in weight, all these were lostech for centuries, with XL's and Endo Steel remaining difficult to procure and maintain and/or prohibitively expensive even after their re-discovery.

When it comes to ammo in vulnerable locations, I'd actually prefer the stock variants being the norm. As it stands CASE has limited or no use, ammo explosions are all too rare and quite frankly I'd like to see the conveyor mechanism capable of carrying our ammo from the legs to any given component of the mech, all the while it's running at full speed, twisting its torso about and waving its arms around like a mad man. If anything, I'd say that's a mechanic cobbled together by a toddler, not an engineer faced with any sort of physical and mechanical realities.

Edited by Saarna, 27 November 2013 - 01:46 AM.

[Samziel]

Some builds are fairly good as stock, but still bad if you don't upradge DHS and get endo. For example Hunchback 4SP. In that case however artemis should be added too.

If talking about weaponry, many mechs has good stock build. If we talk about the overall stock builds, they are all bad.

[John MatriX82]

Due to a league we're playing in, from time to time, we have to drop with stock loadouts using trial mechs.

It's painful, unless the trials are champion mechs, but even there some suck by a long time (AS7-RS for example).

Stock loadouts are too crippled by single heatsinks, absolute lack of armor and its distribution and so on.

[stjobe]

Stock weapon load-outs, sure.

Stock 'mechs? No way. DHS+ES is a minimum of modification if you're to do anything in this broken heat system game. Also, ammo counts on stock 'mechs are usually about half what's needed in MWO, and generally it's a bad idea not to max out armour.

[GalaxyBluestar]

i'd love a stock only mode...

but this is a customisation gimmick game. all the best builds have to be made with many cbill sinks via upgrades, so effectively stock mechs got nerfed hard. we want you to spend and spend and spend.

the customisation is designed to push you into spending and stock mechs don't do it. R+R was cut out only because it was too effecient at killing your earnings too early on if you weren't good enough. everything else has been made to force you into lower cbills in your bank and the need to keep up with an arms race.

in the meantime engine bonuses for heatsinks saving you crit spaces for more equipement/weapons, DHS extends heat threashold way to well which is why SHS are next to useless {a waste in code} and we don't have true DHS outside the engines.

with little punishment for legging anything larger than a fast medium coupled with the amount of hitbox space ratio for CT and ST's xl's make many better builds. everyone aims for the CT. of course xl's are also uber expensive but endo gives you many bonus oppotunities too. overall the highest rated engines gives you more speed in every department, stock mechs were not designed with torso twist speed perks in mind.

pilot trees are also things that ruins trial mechs in general and as such gave stock mechs of old a really hard time. a mastered stock mech though is still far inferrior with ammo, armour distribution, and general agility.

stock mechs ammo isn't made with 12vs12 in mind and sometimes come with gear like narc... nuff said.

essentially the game got modded mechs or "champions" readied up just in time for game's release... stock was finally killed off and along with BT for this mech warrior game.

so i'd love to use stock but in every way the game punishes you if you try.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 27 November 2013 - 03:10 AM.

[Peiper]

When I was trying to get a stock league together, I used smurphy to create a whole set of mechs whereby I tried to make them all, save a few already kitted out with a suite of lostech gear, viable. I'd switch single to double heat sinks, and add, typically, a ton of ammo for each weapon. This often meant I had to upgrade the mechs to endosteel for the weight savings. BUT, I kept the stock engines, armor, number of heat sinks, weapons and support gear the same. For variety and to keep teams from using several of the same of the BEST variants, no team could take more than one of any mech variant, hero mechs (and now champion mechs). I also set up weight restrictions. The idea was to make as pure a BATTLETECH simulation/experience as possible. Alas, without private lobbies, not enough people wanted to risk dropping in their canon mechs against the frankenmonsters.

Every mech is designed for a certain function in Battletech, with strengths and weaknesses accordingly. What we do with our mechs is change them into something completely different from what they were designed to be, and so every mech in MWO is a frankenmech. It's cool we can customize and trick out our mechs, but it really takes away from the immersion in the lore and makes deathballing the most worn out and overused, but necessary tactic in this game. My favorite part is that the only mech that carries ECM, the Raven, sucks *ss as a canon mech! Some of the best mechs are: stock C1 cats, upgraded Trebs, and the Atlas D. And if you want more than one PPC, you only have three mechs to choose from, and two are AWESOME!

[Rushin Roulette]

The thing about Stock mechs and forced stock matches for leagues... What you quite often forget is... your oppents are faced with exactly the same problems as you are and are running around with the same handicapped underarmoured, under motorized ovens as you are.

If players are not flexible enough to let go of their 12 snipermech or 6 Light/6Assault setups that hardly ever overheat or run out of ammunition, then they will never have a chance of being successful at stock/Champion mech rounds. Stop taking potshots with your weapons whenever you see a corner of an opponent and make every shot count instead.

Stock only matches are actually surprisingly well balanced and chassies which are shunned in regular play sometimes turn out to be the best choices for teams to take with them (Awsome and Blackjacks for instance). LRM mechs? Great choice, as hardly any stock mech has AMS installed and the only stock ECM mech is the 3L which is just about completely useless (NARC and TAG anyone?).

Flamers? One of the most feared weapons in existance to a stock mech as they already have problems with overheating and low ammunition count. Hold a flamer into their face and they will panic, overheat and run away from you... plus they will think twice before wasting ammunition on a target which they cant clearly see which section they want to hit.

[Joseph Mallan]

Balsover, on 26 November 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

I'd never use one in MWO, because that would be suicide.

BUT, I would completely support a stock only gameplay mode. Way more fun then playing OP weapon of the month.

Some of the best games I have played on TT were in Stock builds. You are right with heat the way it is handled here Stock would be hel to play, but I would happily participate if it was implemented.

stjobe, on 27 November 2013 - 02:47 AM, said:

Stock weapon load-outs, sure.

Stock 'mechs? No way. DHS+ES is a minimum of modification if you're to do anything in this broken heat system game. Also, ammo counts on stock 'mechs are usually about half what's needed in MWO, and generally it's a bad idea not to max out armour.

But that's the fun of Stock St!

[Blurry]

StompingOnTanks, on 26 November 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

That would be nice.

I agree that would be an interesting game mode. Playing the loadout the mech came with.
Could that be hard to implement?

[Rhaythe]

StompingOnTanks, on 26 November 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

Hi everyone. Just wondering if any of you like to use stock, or almost-stock loadouts.

Oh, hell no. Most of the stock loadouts are down-right painful.

[Funky Bacon]

The K2 have a very decent stock loadout imo. 20 S-heatsinks keep it fairly cool with 2x PPC's for direct fire support and 2x M-Las + MG's as backup weapons.

[Rushin Roulette]

Funky Bacon, on 27 November 2013 - 05:08 AM, said:

The K2 have a very decent stock loadout imo. 20 S-heatsinks keep it fairly cool with 2x PPC's for direct fire support and 2x M-Las + MG's as backup weapons.

The K2 has a good stock loadout... but its main problem is the armour... it has about the same armor level of a wet paper bag wrapped around teh backside of a Mexican after a Burito dinner.

[Lord de Seis]

MPBT3025 was all stock load outs and it was a lot of fun, you definitely didn't have as many balance issues as MWO is having. If there was a option to play stock build only matches I would definitely play them frequently.

I say get rid of the trail mech system and let new players take any stock build they want, lets them get an idea of what kind of mech they would like.

[Flyby215]

Before the Champion mechs came around, I used to build my mechs to look exactly like a trial mech, except with DHS, ES, FF, etc. then claim "haha I beat all your butts with a trial mech". Good times...

Some of my favourite mechs carry stock weapon loads (CPLT-C1, STK-3F, JM6-S) but all have the DHS, ES, Armour, etc. upgrades.

[Carrioncrows]

I love using my Stock Stalker loadout.

Just add DHS's and a bit more armor.

x2 Larges
x4 mediums
x2 SRM6's
x2 LRM10's

[Percimes]

I play the first match of every new mech stock. No modification, no module, no paint job, nothing. It's always painful and a good reminder as to why some tinkering needs to be done.

Double heat sinks are mandatory for almost any mech, I think the only one I didn't upgrade in that regard was a spider (5K). For gameplay/mech diversity in my hangar, I try to stay "in the spirit" of the original loadout, sometime keeping signature weapons (ERPPC on AWS-9M, AC20 on HCH-4G) sometime the role the mech was "designed" for (brawling, long range support, ...).