89 replies to this topic

[Krinkov]

[IceCase88]

All of these players would be using MGs instead of other ballistics in all of their builds if anything you are saying was remotely true. This is coming from someone with 7,557 matches which is far fewer than the guys trying to educate you. MGs are not primary weapons and are only a good finishing weapon.

[stjobe]

MGs overpowered?

Now I've heard everything...

OP, you need to download Fraps, buy an Ember, and make some videos showing us how you pwn face with a 4 MG Ember. Preferably backed into a corner and just firing your MGs (man, why doesn't that sound like a winning tactic? Gee, dunno).

Don't worry bout the haters that point out that you need 12 tons of MG ammo to fire 4 MG for 10 minutes straight.
Never mind the trolls telling you that standing still in a light 'mech is a death sentence.
Ignore the fools telling you the MG isn't all that.

You've seen it yourself, haven't you? Killing you in seconds?
And five of them have the same DPS as an AC/20!
DPS is king in this game, right?

You know what you know, right? And ain't nobody gunna tell you diff'rent, right?

*sigh*

Go play with a 'mech mounting MGs, then come back and apologize.

[Scurry]

WhiteFenix, on 25 February 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

You didn't read all the posts, or 'dude' deleted his.
And your responce is not very intelligible either, for example; most people are explaining the weapons as a matter of damage only, like the ac20 doing 20 damage and not taking into account cooldowns, heat and such. dps is damage per second sustained as calculated by smurfy.
You sir are the one trolling, or you honestly do not know this? Do you really think that the mechs are designed according to your feel? laughable, even /face palm worthy.
If you honestly do not know this, then it is you who is in need of education and you should be quite, unless you want to make yourself look like an idiot.
You also do not address the issue that is dps vs tonnage imbalance that is in the MG world.
Once again for you unbelievers;

MG .5 tons = 1 dps
erpps 7 tons = 2.5 dps

Your 4 freaking mgs are doing almost as much damage as 2 erppcs(rediculous) over a given amount of time.
rage on!!

You didn't read all the posts.
And your responce is not very intelligible either, for example; most people are explaining the weapons as a matter of damage, range, ammo and pinpoint damage, like the ac20 doing 20 damage at triple the range and all in one spot, giving possible OHKO hits. Even the small laser also have the same dps/ton as mgs. dps is damage per second sustained as calculated by smurfy.
You sir are the one trolling, or you honestly do not know this? Do you really think that the mechs are designed according to your feel? laughable, even /face palm worthy.
If you honestly do not know this, then it is you who is in need of education and you should be quite, unless you want to make yourself look like an idiot.
You also do not address the issue that is dps vs tonnage imbalance that is in the small laser world.
Once again for you unbeliever:

mg 0.5 tons with 1 ton ammo = 1dps
small laser 0.5 tons = 1 dps
erpps 7 tons = 2.5 dps

Your 4 freaking small lasers (2 tons) are doing almost as much damage as 4 mgs (3 tons) over a given amount of time.
rage on!!

*sarcasm mode off*

You're leaving so many things out of your analysis it's ridiculous. Ammunition, range, and pinpoint damage are all stuff you completely ignore. The one mounting erppcs can just fire - turn - fire and take you right out while you dribble your damage all over his mech.

[Blood Rose]

WhiteFenix, on 25 February 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Calling people trolls should be against forum rules, and probably is.
So, you name call instead of addressing the fact that in the mg world, .5 ton buys 1dps, 4 mg's for 4 dps, almost on par with 2 er ppcs. Yeah your 2 tons vs. the sorry bloke who doles out 14.
In which version of mw you ever played before where 4 mg's was just about equal to 2 erppc's.
It should be downright intolerable to any honest and worthy mechwarrior.
Its the most imbalanced thing ive ever seen in any incarnation of mw since the beginning of the world.

I run 2 PPC's in my K2, and I have met only a handful of lights wiling to stand still in front of me. They learned their lesson the hard way. You have only been playing for 11 days, I have been playing for nearly a year. I should think that my words count for more than yours. If you have been killed by a light with MG's then you where probably in the trial Stalker, and you wandered away from your team, then ignored the light on your rear. You learned your lesson the hard way.

[Blood Rose]

You obviously do not remember the times, as you where not there, but back in the late summer of 2013 the MG's where truly broken. Combined with the hitreg issues on the Spider many players took to running a dual of even (shudder) quad MG Spider. These where more that capable of chewing through your armour and killing you in a flash, but what made them really strong was that very few shot actually registered as hitting the Spider. On other Mechs, the time spent in close proximity to the enemy usually resulted in complete and utter destruction, or crippling damage.

[Blood Rose]

Now the MG's are balanced. You are a troll (there, now you can whine) and you need to get off your high horse and learn that your no longer fighting an AI, but veteran pilots. My offer still stands: Try your standing still and firing MG's at a bigger Mech routine with me. I will give you further education as to the error of your ways. Now, many other vets, like me, have tried to point out the error of your ways, but you will not listen. At least one person has offered to team drop with you, and help you. Normally I would not extend such an offer, but I am now. Send me a friend request, or I shall send you one, and we shall drop together. I will teach you the best ways of playing, and even guide you as to what Mech to purchase. I will show you tactics, tricks and other methods that I have learned. Including the best ways to deal with lights.

[stjobe]

Blood Rose, on 26 February 2014 - 03:21 AM, said:

You obviously do not remember the times, as you where not there, but back in the late summer of 2013 the MG's where truly broken.

I contend that they were broken well before that, from closed beta up until the late summer of 2013; back when they did 0.04 damage per projectile instead of the 0.1 per projectile they do now.

I spent a lot of time from closed beta onwards fighting to get that changed so they wouldn't be useless weight, and while I do think they still could use some adjustment (lose the cone of fire at least, and perhaps a slight boost to their damage vs armour and a slight nerf to their damage vs internals and components), they are actually usable now. Not great, and certainly not OP, but neither are they dead weight.

As for the OP, I stand by my previous recommendation; drop a few times in a MG 'mech and then come back and apologize.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Blood Rose, on 26 February 2014 - 03:21 AM, said:

You obviously do not remember the times, as you where not there, but back in the late summer of 2013 the MG's where truly broken. Combined with the hitreg issues on the Spider many players took to running a dual of even (shudder) quad MG Spider. These where more that capable of chewing through your armour and killing you in a flash, but what made them really strong was that very few shot actually registered as hitting the Spider. On other Mechs, the time spent in close proximity to the enemy usually resulted in complete and utter destruction, or crippling damage.

MGs were never broken, they were just strong in their niche. Spiders with MGs were what made people rage, and PGI nerfed the MGs rather than fixing the Spiders, probably at least in part because so many people on the forums couldn't distinguish between Spiders with MGs and MGs in general.

After the nerf to bonus crit rate and crit damage, MGs have become passable weapons, useful for filling out ballistic slots in mechs too light to run proper ACs or as backups for more potent weapons, but they don't really stand out as great even at their particular niche. Sure they're good at it, but are they really great? Having to bring 4+ MGs to really see the benefits seems to suggest that they are still just a bit weak, though I don't think anyone can really argue that they are useless (especially compared to how utterly bad they once were).

[TB Freelancer]

WhiteFenix, on 25 February 2014 - 02:37 AM, said:

And this so reminds me of MW4 days when those hackers would patch the game to thier bros liking. For example the specific event Im mentioning was brought about by the fact that in MW4 matchs smaller mech got a points score bonus for the match so those hackers hacked the light mechs and made it possible for them to carry a weapon they should not have been able too, and thereby buffed thier score with NO SKILL REQUIRED play.
Do you understand what Im saying now?

There was only really ever one hack for MW4 when it was actively played and the leagues were still going on. It didn't last very long at all before a patch was out for servers to block it.

That said, servers could do all sorts of things like NHUA, limit certain weapons, i.e. most prevented the use of long toms, etc. Team Banzai routinely had all sorts of custom events which were simply a matter of changing server parameters i.e. "Lasers only", "Clans only", "Stock builds only", "Ballistics night", "Lights vs assaults", and on and on.

WhiteFenix, on 25 February 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

Seems some of you don't enjoy the MWO mini game, this will brighten your day;
Stock EMBER 6.8 dps
Stock BOARS HEAD 3.22 dps
Thats just hiliarius.
I think you're new too the game and afraid they will nerf your 'I win" button, I'm here to tell you that your button is BROKEN, and it will be fixed. Spread the word and save the ATLAS.

So you're blaming the machine gun for a broken heat system? The reason the Ember can maintain good DPS has nothing to do with the machine gun and everything to do with the broken heat system in this game.....

[Commander Binz]

WhiteFenix, on 25 February 2014 - 02:26 AM, said:

You should not be albe to do as much dps or more then a larger mech with twice the loadout capability, by mounting mgs on a light mech.
The game is not balanced when a light mech can stand face to face with an assault in a close quaters map, and just stand there with 0 speed and out dps an assualt mech because his weapons wiegh 20 times more.
Im sure you guys in the embers like it, it doesn't seem to affect the other light mechs so much, but its not balanced. And I have yet to see an ember with a flamer in it. This is probrably the most blatant case of ptw in this game so far. Its not game breaking though, as a good team will mug these guys, but mg's still do to much damage.
There are guns in the MW univers that are similar to machine guns, but of course one of your light mechs would not be able to mount even one of these, too heavy.

What!?! A light mech can NEVER stand still in front of an assault and win.

In fact, when im driving my Atlas or my Highlander, a shut down light or stationary light is normally dead in one alpha.

Not sure what your smoking, but send me some please!!

[shellashock]

Commander Binz, on 26 February 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

What!?! A light mech can NEVER stand still in front of an assault and win.

In fact, when im driving my Atlas or my Highlander, a shut down light or stationary light is normally dead in one alpha.

Not sure what your smoking, but send me some please!!

To be fair, the spider used to do this all the time. It's gotten a bit better with the hitbox simplification, but some people are still reporting issues with killing stationary spiders; albeit not as many.

[MasterDDragon]

WhiteFenix, I am new to this game. Do not usually join mmorpg's and such. But it is MechWarrior and Battletech. ( the Later in a fashion in that the Mechs are all from the Battletech Universe.)

I have played and beaten every MechWarrior game that has come out that is not an online game. I have read at least 2/3 of the books. Have owned almost all of the schematics books and Battletech game source books before they were stolen. Now own much less, but still own some, and am beginning to collect it back.

Here is your education.

In the Battletech Universe, Machine Guns (further more referred to as MGs) were and still are horrible at close range. They are the equivalent to a 100 cal. (The strongest machine gun in the world is the 50 cal. And as a Marine I can quantitatively state this. It can shoot through 2 feet of solid steel.)

Can you imagine what a 100 cal. would do? Problem comes with the fact that it is impossible to get more than one shot to stay on vector. Any weapon throwing that much lead that fast is going to rattle and yaw. The brace keeping it from yawing would have to allow some play or it will break, quickly I might add. Thus the cone effect.

In the MechWarrior world, If a Light Mech could get to within 50 meters and open all cons, Even the Heaviest of Mechs would be trying to take it out quick. Or that light mech would eat them alive. Of course the rate of fire is easily 100x that of the game in the books/rpg.

That said, the problem comes in not with game mechanics but with 'game world mechanics'. You just simply do not understand the world you are playing in. You saw an awesome game and thought 'yeah, now that will be fun'.

Before you complain about the game, you should get to know the world in which it sits. If you only knew how Aiden Pride won his Bloodname due to better knowledge of the Mech he was pitted against. Or how the Lyrian Commonwealth survived an onslaught thanks to some foot soldiers with mines. . . .

In the Battletech world, almost every pilot worth their salt keeps at least one MG on their Mech. Because if that bumbler gets close . . . These are things that you just do not understand. And with your loosing attitude, never will. Trust me, as probably one of the older (age) players in the game, I speak from wisdom.

The first incarnation of the game came out when I was 9. There were no books at that point. Just the game and the first story in a setting in the rulebook.

You have been educated.

When you get to know the game world, The Battletech Universe, and can point to proof from the canon of the world that your view is valid, then I and all the other core fans will back you. Until then, just admit that you do not understand, but that you do have a right to voice your opinions.

That last bit is for all the negativity instantly thrown at White just for making this post and for voicing his opinion on a thread that clearly states that members have the right to do just that. We do not have to agree, but we do not have to be negative towards him. I expect More from My Fellow Mech Pilots. Remember, we are feared for our prowess at war, but we are venerated for our Respect towards all other MechWarriors.






The First, The Original Master Death Dragon has spoken! Hope not for Me to release my Reapers Upon your souls! For Death already knows us all!

[FireSlade]

MasterDDragon, on 26 February 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

WhiteFenix, I am new to this game. Do not usually join mmorpg's and such. But it is MechWarrior and Battletech. ( the Later in a fashion in that the Mechs are all from the Battletech Universe.)

I have played and beaten every MechWarrior game that has come out that is not an online game. I have read at least 2/3 of the books. Have owned almost all of the schematics books and Battletech game source books before they were stolen. Now own much less, but still own some, and am beginning to collect it back.

Here is your education.

In the Battletech Universe, Machine Guns (further more referred to as MGs) were and still are horrible at close range. They are the equivalent to a 100 cal. (The strongest machine gun in the world is the 50 cal. And as a Marine I can quantitatively state this. It can shoot through 2 feet of solid steel.)

Can you imagine what a 100 cal. would do? Problem comes with the fact that it is impossible to get more than one shot to stay on vector. Any weapon throwing that much lead that fast is going to rattle and yaw. The brace keeping it from yawing would have to allow some play or it will break, quickly I might add. Thus the cone effect.

In the MechWarrior world, If a Light Mech could get to within 50 meters and open all cons, Even the Heaviest of Mechs would be trying to take it out quick. Or that light mech would eat them alive. Of course the rate of fire is easily 100x that of the game in the books/rpg.

That said, the problem comes in not with game mechanics but with 'game world mechanics'. You just simply do not understand the world you are playing in. You saw an awesome game and thought 'yeah, now that will be fun'.

Before you complain about the game, you should get to know the world in which it sits. If you only knew how Aiden Pride won his Bloodname due to better knowledge of the Mech he was pitted against. Or how the Lyrian Commonwealth survived an onslaught thanks to some foot soldiers with mines. . . .

In the Battletech world, almost every pilot worth their salt keeps at least one MG on their Mech. Because if that bumbler gets close . . . These are things that you just do not understand. And with your loosing attitude, never will. Trust me, as probably one of the older (age) players in the game, I speak from wisdom.

The first incarnation of the game came out when I was 9. There were no books at that point. Just the game and the first story in a setting in the rulebook.

You have been educated.

When you get to know the game world, The Battletech Universe, and can point to proof from the canon of the world that your view is valid, then I and all the other core fans will back you. Until then, just admit that you do not understand, but that you do have a right to voice your opinions.

That last bit is for all the negativity instantly thrown at White just for making this post and for voicing his opinion on a thread that clearly states that members have the right to do just that. We do not have to agree, but we do not have to be negative towards him. I expect More from My Fellow Mech Pilots. Remember, we are feared for our prowess at war, but we are venerated for our Respect towards all other MechWarriors.






The First, The Original Master Death Dragon has spoken! Hope not for Me to release my Reapers Upon your souls! For Death already knows us all!

Well spoken.

Just one thing. 2ft of steel? I have seen a .50 cal shoot through 1 inch easily but 2ft seems a bit much. Besides I think that the MGs in MWO are around 20mm-30mm which is what some jet fighters carry and pack a hell of a lot more punch. Hell the GAU-8 fires a 30mm armor piercing incendiary round and can punch through M-47 tank armor which are between .5 and 4.5 inches; but most of the tests were just a mobility kill. http://www.dtic.mil/.../u2/a522397.pdf

[invalidusername]

WhiteFenix, on 24 February 2014 - 03:58 PM, said:

Machine guns in this incarnation of MW do to much damage. Sort of reminds me when those hackers back in the MW4 days did that arty thing, the game devolved into idiots.On the bright side that patch didn't last too long.
Any how I got the largest mech and put as many as possible on it, and just bombed the whole match, totally ******** and unbalanced. I remember asking, "A lot of fun huh?"
With these current machine guns im considering doing the same thing, put a gazilon machine guns on a mech, crawl in a cul de sac, and just hold down the fire button for the next 10 minutes, gg. LOL

Please go try that and report back with multiple screenshots of your super awesome scores and insane damage. I used to play the spider 5k and the best damage I pulled was close to 650. I use the ECM variant now and I can pull way more than that and have the damage be concentrated while also at longer ranges.

[MasterDDragon]

FireSlade, while I cannot get into specifics, I have seen it both off and on the battlefield. As for the jet fighter rounds and such (most 'mm' MG's), they are miniature 'missiles' if you will. That is why they are so effective and move so fast. As for the 50 cal., there is a type of ammo that will go thru a 2 ft piece of steel. That is why most modern armor and such is layered. Something about the layering of it fells the bullet, after a bit.

Thanks for responding to this specifically, and hopefully it will shed some light on why the MG's are they way they are in the Battletech Universe and this game.

You are probably right, btw, about the ones in the BU being more like fighter rounds. Will look into it and make a post on my profile with the specifics!

[stjobe]

MasterDDragon, on 26 February 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

The strongest machine gun in the world is the 50 cal. And as a Marine I can quantitatively state this. It can shoot through 2 feet of solid steel.

You may be a Marine, but you clearly don't know the value of not exaggerating wildly.

2 feet is 24 inches, which is 22-23 inches more penetration than the .50 SLAP (M903) can manage (scroll down to the bottom for penetration tables).

The BattleTech MG is not a scaled-up M2 BMG. It's a 1000-year-in-the-future, 500kg, rapid-fire nightmare. It has nothing in common with our modern-day machine guns other than the name.

It's not a .50, it's not a GAU-8, it's not a Vulcan, not a Bofors 40mm. It's a made-up, science-fiction board game weapon that is supposed to tear 2-point chunks of armour out of made-up, science fiction board game robots.

MasterDDragon, on 26 February 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

Trust me, as probably one of the older (age) players in the game, I speak from wisdom.

The first incarnation of the game came out when I was 9.

Many of us are as old or older than that, and appeals to authority are never valid arguments.

[Koniving]

For random bullet size, the typical "MG" in Battletech is supposed to be 20mm, but can be 12.7mm to 25mm.

But that said...

The great "overpowered" MG. Trial spider.

During this video you'll notice I'm incredibly accurate with my arm weapons. Used plenty of the Large Laser. Legged an enemy and made a kill, then stood toe to toe with a Cataphract 4x that couldn't aim.
After all that, well see the damage for yourself.

Far less effort. Many more kills. Trial Dragon.


But if you really want to see overpowered... Twin AC/2, twin AC/5 Jagermech.

Pumps out (in MWO's current, slower firing speeds) 438 damage in 30 seconds.
That's 146 damage in 10 seconds.
Imagine what it was really pumping out back then when the "fast fire" skill actually worked.

[Koniving]

Bonus vids. These are overpowered.
Lb-10x + AC/2 combination.

To see what happens when you mix autocannons and MGs, peer here.

[WhiteFenix]

yeah a fifty calber does not shoot thru 2 feet of steel, you have been schooled by hardcore BA.
So you think you have skill when you park your ember 10 yards away, and just hold down your fire button for 10 seconds, doing 4 dps, thats 40 damage. This is really facinating when 2 or more of you guys are doing this, the skill involved is not hardcore. Are you the same hardcore guys that complained about energy weapons until they implemented ghost heat too, now that truly is hardcore, getting an aspect of the game nerfed to suite your play style.
Hey wait a minute, thats the same thing thats going on with 4 mg's doing 4 dps, 2erppc's doing 5 dps.

So over 8 seconds your mg's are doing 32 damage, and the sorry bloke who spent 14 tons on ppc's is doing 40 damage over the same time period; Im your teacher, I dont want you to be dumb. All your arguments about how the big mech kicks your ass are lies. Notice, i picked the cooldown of the ppc for this example, honk honk.

The truth will out about this exploit, which is kinda of funny for the amount of heat im drawing im spite of the fact that math does not lie.
Perhaps when they implement smurfy's loadout in mech lab, you will realize what tremendous boneheads you have made yourselves.
And thanks for the bumps.

Edited by WhiteFenix, 27 February 2014 - 01:53 PM.