L2P? Don't drive fat mechs that can't defend themselves? And definitely don't let something shoot you in your back for 10 seconds unopposed?
SMH
"Mommy I got killded by the bad gun, so make the bad gun go away!"
4
Machine Guns
Started by WhiteFenix, Feb 24 2014 03:58 PM
89 replies to this topic
#61
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Posted 27 February 2014 - 01:52 PM
#62
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Posted 27 February 2014 - 02:09 PM
False assumption, i dont drive fat mechs. Im concerned about balance.
Oh and btw, in the real world. Fifty caliber its totally useless vs tanks.
I sorta mentioned this before in a ealier post, there are rotary guns in the BT, MW universe that can damage armor, those are of course to heavy for your ember, a hunchback could carry ONE because of its huge hardpoint.
I reckon if i looked up BT table top rules, mg's are not vs. mech weapons. I would not bet on this, but i wouldnt be surprised as the tabletop rules involved alot more units then just mechs.
ANd you sir, are totally fail specimen of false assumtion in fact. I laugh AT YOU.
The ember drivers are the ones who need to LtP instead of having the devs tweak the damage of thier machine guns out of balance.
IRONIC
Oh and btw, in the real world. Fifty caliber its totally useless vs tanks.
I sorta mentioned this before in a ealier post, there are rotary guns in the BT, MW universe that can damage armor, those are of course to heavy for your ember, a hunchback could carry ONE because of its huge hardpoint.
I reckon if i looked up BT table top rules, mg's are not vs. mech weapons. I would not bet on this, but i wouldnt be surprised as the tabletop rules involved alot more units then just mechs.
ANd you sir, are totally fail specimen of false assumtion in fact. I laugh AT YOU.
The ember drivers are the ones who need to LtP instead of having the devs tweak the damage of thier machine guns out of balance.
IRONIC
Edited by WhiteFenix, 27 February 2014 - 02:12 PM.
#63
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Posted 27 February 2014 - 02:15 PM
WhiteFenix, on 24 February 2014 - 03:58 PM, said:
Machine guns in this incarnation of MW do to much damage. Sort of reminds me when those hackers back in the MW4 days did that arty thing, the game devolved into idiots.On the bright side that patch didn't last too long.
Any how I got the largest mech and put as many as possible on it, and just bombed the whole match, totally ******** and unbalanced. I remember asking, "A lot of fun huh?"
With these current machine guns im considering doing the same thing, put a gazilon machine guns on a mech, crawl in a cul de sac, and just hold down the fire button for the next 10 minutes, gg. LOL
Any how I got the largest mech and put as many as possible on it, and just bombed the whole match, totally ******** and unbalanced. I remember asking, "A lot of fun huh?"
With these current machine guns im considering doing the same thing, put a gazilon machine guns on a mech, crawl in a cul de sac, and just hold down the fire button for the next 10 minutes, gg. LOL
Annihilator WIth 4 Heap AGL doing area saturation non-stop? Oh yeah! That was me!
Trollhawk with 2-3 MG's and Streaks? Oh Yeah! That's me now!
Muhahaha!
#64
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Posted 27 February 2014 - 02:26 PM
I looked it , just for fun; ppc would do 5 times the damage of the mg per turn in BT, so if your doing 32 damage over 8 seconds, ppc needs a buff to 160 damage over 8 seconds. HAHAHAHA
Wait i forgot, i must teach; that would be 2 ppc's, 2 alphas
80/alpha
40 per ppc
Wait i forgot, i must teach; that would be 2 ppc's, 2 alphas
80/alpha
40 per ppc
Edited by WhiteFenix, 27 February 2014 - 02:29 PM.
#65
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Posted 27 February 2014 - 02:30 PM
WhiteFenix, on 27 February 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:
The ember drivers are the ones who need to LtP instead of having the devs tweak the damage of thier machine guns out of balance.
IRONIC
IRONIC
You know what? If you are telling everyone to L2P, why don't you go and make a video of you parking a 4 MG spider in front of any kind of assault mech for 10 seconds and deal 40 damage to them with your machine guns. You'll even have the benefit of extremely tiny hitboxes to aid you compared to the ember's bigger hitboxes.
Go on and make that video. Show us *noobs* how it's done.
Edit: There have also been players that have offered to drop with you. Take advantage of that and play with them and see how well that stand still in a light and fire 4 mg's for 10 seconds strategy works.
Edited by shellashock, 27 February 2014 - 02:55 PM.
#66
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Posted 27 February 2014 - 03:18 PM
Did you know:
* Every ballistic weapon got buffs from their TT stats; mostly by increasing the rate of fire.
* The larger the weapon, the smaller the buff.
* The AC/20 got a buff of 2.5 times its TT DPS.
* The AC/2 got a buff of 20 times its TT DPS (it's now at 19.25 times its TT DPS)
* The MG, however, only got a buff of 2 times its TT DPS.
* Thankfully, the MG was improved to where it's now at 5 times its TT DPS and has some extra crit chance and damage.
* The MG has a DPS of 1.0 against armour.
* It has a DPS of 2.0 against internal structure.
* And a DPS of about 7 against internal components.
* The MG is a hit-scan weapon; the graphics are totally unconnected to the game mechanic.
* It's basically a laser with zero cooldown and some flashy graphics.
* Unlike other ballistics, the MG only has 2x effective range as max - the proper ballistics have 3x.
* It also has a cone of fire, a dubious honour only shared with the Flamer among direct-fire weapons.
* It also shares its continuous-fire mechanic with the Flamer, another dubious honour.
* The cone of fire is large enough to cover a Commando from head to toe at max effective range.
* Another buff the ballistics got from TT was to ammo counts.
* Most ballistics got 50% more ammo per ton.
* The MG got a reduction by 90%.
* But wait, you say, 2,000 rounds is ten times the amount in TT?
* Sure, but the MG fires 100 times for each time it fired in TT, so the ammo lasts one tenth as long.
* Hence, effectively the MG's ammo load got reduced by 90%
* Incidentally, each MG projectile does 5% of the damage it did in TT
* The other ballistics do 100% of their TT damage per projectile values.
* MGs were weapons mounted on 'mechs in the original TT game.
* That game didn't have any other targets than 'mechs.
* Infantry and vehicles came along in the CityTech expansion two years later.
* The MG then got a bonus versus soft targets like infantry - it does 2-12 damage to them.
* But the MG still did 2 damage to 'mechs.
* And still does, in TT.
* Every ballistic weapon got buffs from their TT stats; mostly by increasing the rate of fire.
* The larger the weapon, the smaller the buff.
* The AC/20 got a buff of 2.5 times its TT DPS.
* The AC/2 got a buff of 20 times its TT DPS (it's now at 19.25 times its TT DPS)
* The MG, however, only got a buff of 2 times its TT DPS.
* Thankfully, the MG was improved to where it's now at 5 times its TT DPS and has some extra crit chance and damage.
* The MG has a DPS of 1.0 against armour.
* It has a DPS of 2.0 against internal structure.
* And a DPS of about 7 against internal components.
* The MG is a hit-scan weapon; the graphics are totally unconnected to the game mechanic.
* It's basically a laser with zero cooldown and some flashy graphics.
* Unlike other ballistics, the MG only has 2x effective range as max - the proper ballistics have 3x.
* It also has a cone of fire, a dubious honour only shared with the Flamer among direct-fire weapons.
* It also shares its continuous-fire mechanic with the Flamer, another dubious honour.
* The cone of fire is large enough to cover a Commando from head to toe at max effective range.
* Another buff the ballistics got from TT was to ammo counts.
* Most ballistics got 50% more ammo per ton.
* The MG got a reduction by 90%.
* But wait, you say, 2,000 rounds is ten times the amount in TT?
* Sure, but the MG fires 100 times for each time it fired in TT, so the ammo lasts one tenth as long.
* Hence, effectively the MG's ammo load got reduced by 90%
* Incidentally, each MG projectile does 5% of the damage it did in TT
* The other ballistics do 100% of their TT damage per projectile values.
* MGs were weapons mounted on 'mechs in the original TT game.
* That game didn't have any other targets than 'mechs.
* Infantry and vehicles came along in the CityTech expansion two years later.
* The MG then got a bonus versus soft targets like infantry - it does 2-12 damage to them.
* But the MG still did 2 damage to 'mechs.
* And still does, in TT.
#67
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Posted 27 February 2014 - 05:54 PM
MG's in this game are actually the worse iteration in a MW game. Add to the matter you have to be constantly facing an opponent, they are a stream laser with a bullet affect, and do not operate on a cooldown mechanic.
A quick comparison that I tested myself. In MW3 if you are literally aiming for the weakest spot, you'll destroy a section in 10 seconds with 2 MG's, but you have extremely limited ammo, and the MG bullets are actually projectiles instead of a stream. In MWO it is the exact opposite, it takes 36 seconds or more to destroy the weakest section of a Mech, while having to deal with its enormous spread, with 2 MG's, and a whole lot of ammo.
On top of all this are some Mech variants PGI decided to add, like little Light Mechs that rely on trying to quickly deliver damage by getting in extreme close range. The Raven 4X gets the worse of it with only being able to mount 2.
Not sure what you're smoking OP, they scratch armor paint and do a little extra when the armor is off, that's it. Unless that was a joke?
A quick comparison that I tested myself. In MW3 if you are literally aiming for the weakest spot, you'll destroy a section in 10 seconds with 2 MG's, but you have extremely limited ammo, and the MG bullets are actually projectiles instead of a stream. In MWO it is the exact opposite, it takes 36 seconds or more to destroy the weakest section of a Mech, while having to deal with its enormous spread, with 2 MG's, and a whole lot of ammo.
On top of all this are some Mech variants PGI decided to add, like little Light Mechs that rely on trying to quickly deliver damage by getting in extreme close range. The Raven 4X gets the worse of it with only being able to mount 2.
Not sure what you're smoking OP, they scratch armor paint and do a little extra when the armor is off, that's it. Unless that was a joke?
Edited by General Taskeen, 27 February 2014 - 06:06 PM.
#68
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Posted 27 February 2014 - 09:41 PM
stjobe
If you know the universe, and are old enough to remember, then - obviously - my reply was not centered towards you. The fact that you may be as old or older has not seemed to impart at least that much common sense to you.
You looked up an html and posted the link. Nice cyber thinking. I did say, in a reply post to someone else ASKING about that, that I could not mention specifics, so . . . ( is the common sense kicking in yet )
My reply was to give a little education to someone that is obviously younger, sentence structure and us of syntax and grammar tell me that; and that does not know the BTU very well. As hoped, they actually looked up the information due to my post, and became more educated in the BTU.
As witnessed by their later reply. In which they specifically stated that they looked it up.
Would you rather them learn, or just tear them down?
I have no disrespect for any of the any of the long time people here at this site. I do have disrespect for those that would rather tear at everything people post as a form of expression. If you have nothing better to do in you life than to try to cyber bully everybody with html's that point to proof of YOUR VIEW, then expect no one to listen to you.
To WhiteFenix, thank you for looking that information up.
That was exactly what I was hoping you would do. You have made all of us happy in that you have proven you are willing to learn from this, not just rant.
And after some research myself, as well as some play testing, I can validate your comment on the DPS. It is a lot of damage per second IF you are VERY, VERY CLOSE to the enemy.
But as a light mech, getting that close is almost sure suicide. The OS compensates for that with the wild cone effect. At stated max range for optimum fire, the DPS is (GUESTIMATING) about 2/13. At absolute max range, the range at which it will still do the least damage (double max optimum for most weapons), one is lucky to get 0.01 DPS as the wild cone effect weaves the 'line' of the spray around.
And yes, I actually did stand 10 seconds in front of an Atlas with a trial Spider. I died, but the Atlas Pilot was sure hating me. At point blank range, only one of his weapons could hit me. It only took the one weapon a few shots, but his armor for his LT was gone and his IS was orange.
It took me quite a few games to get that close in that trial Spider too.
All in all, just looking at the DPS, it seems unbalanced, you need to factor in the short range, ammo limit( as that ate a crap ton of ammo ), and the wild cone effect. It is not a spray, but the 'line' of bullets moving randomly within the parameters of the cone.
That said, afore mentioned statement of 'if that bumbler got too close' applies.
If you know the universe, and are old enough to remember, then - obviously - my reply was not centered towards you. The fact that you may be as old or older has not seemed to impart at least that much common sense to you.
You looked up an html and posted the link. Nice cyber thinking. I did say, in a reply post to someone else ASKING about that, that I could not mention specifics, so . . . ( is the common sense kicking in yet )
My reply was to give a little education to someone that is obviously younger, sentence structure and us of syntax and grammar tell me that; and that does not know the BTU very well. As hoped, they actually looked up the information due to my post, and became more educated in the BTU.
As witnessed by their later reply. In which they specifically stated that they looked it up.
Would you rather them learn, or just tear them down?
I have no disrespect for any of the any of the long time people here at this site. I do have disrespect for those that would rather tear at everything people post as a form of expression. If you have nothing better to do in you life than to try to cyber bully everybody with html's that point to proof of YOUR VIEW, then expect no one to listen to you.
To WhiteFenix, thank you for looking that information up.
That was exactly what I was hoping you would do. You have made all of us happy in that you have proven you are willing to learn from this, not just rant.And after some research myself, as well as some play testing, I can validate your comment on the DPS. It is a lot of damage per second IF you are VERY, VERY CLOSE to the enemy.
But as a light mech, getting that close is almost sure suicide. The OS compensates for that with the wild cone effect. At stated max range for optimum fire, the DPS is (GUESTIMATING) about 2/13. At absolute max range, the range at which it will still do the least damage (double max optimum for most weapons), one is lucky to get 0.01 DPS as the wild cone effect weaves the 'line' of the spray around.
And yes, I actually did stand 10 seconds in front of an Atlas with a trial Spider. I died, but the Atlas Pilot was sure hating me. At point blank range, only one of his weapons could hit me. It only took the one weapon a few shots, but his armor for his LT was gone and his IS was orange.
It took me quite a few games to get that close in that trial Spider too.
All in all, just looking at the DPS, it seems unbalanced, you need to factor in the short range, ammo limit( as that ate a crap ton of ammo ), and the wild cone effect. It is not a spray, but the 'line' of bullets moving randomly within the parameters of the cone.
That said, afore mentioned statement of 'if that bumbler got too close' applies.
Edited by MasterDDragon, 27 February 2014 - 09:45 PM.
#69
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Posted 27 February 2014 - 10:19 PM
stjobe, on 27 February 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:
epic pwnage
#70
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Posted 27 February 2014 - 11:44 PM
this thread is still going? stop feeding the troll!
#71
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Posted 27 February 2014 - 11:44 PM
Speaking of MG's in previous Mechwarrior itterations. i just went out with 4 on a Timberwolf in MW2:31st, Hard difficulty for what its worth.
And.....I'm not sure I need any other weapons.
The MG's were chunking everything ... scary.
And.....I'm not sure I need any other weapons.
The MG's were chunking everything ... scary.
#72
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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:18 AM
DPS is not the only aspect of a weapon. You can stab someone with a knife more often than a sniper needs to fire an aimed shot. That doesnt make the knife superior does it?
#73
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- The Hammer
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Posted 28 February 2014 - 05:39 AM
Yiazmat, on 27 February 2014 - 11:44 PM, said:
this thread is still going? stop feeding the troll!
actually, it's kinda fun. His "attempts" to defend his position get more and more interesting the more he gets blown out of the water. I mean, c'mon Yiaz, DPS has always been the idi0ts argument in MWO, because it's not like we are playing a tower defense game where you just sit there stationary pumping out damage. Oh the delicious fallacies spouted off by "Pros" on these forums......... between PGI's utter lack of Noob Guidance, and the myopic world view of the "Pros" is it any wonder this game has trouble retaining players?
#74
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- The 1 Percent
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Posted 28 February 2014 - 06:58 AM
Yiazmat, on 27 February 2014 - 11:44 PM, said:
this thread is still going? stop feeding the troll!
Screw that! I am sold! The new meta has arrived! MGs for all my mechs now!
I cannot wait to load my JM6-DD with 6 MGs and small lasers! DPS will be epic!
Here is the monster!
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...86b5c48fe731dbe
And now I can actually equip a mech with the "useful" command console and CASE! Talk about epic pwnage! I hope my secret does not get out!
Edited for added sarcasm.
Edited by IceCase88, 28 February 2014 - 07:00 AM.
#75
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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:13 AM
IceCase88, on 28 February 2014 - 06:58 AM, said:
I cannot wait to load my JM6-DD with 6 MGs and small lasers! DPS will be epic!
Here is the monster!
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...86b5c48fe731dbe
Here is the monster!
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...86b5c48fe731dbe
Do it this way and you do have a real monster. 6 MG isn't anything to sneer at once dual PPCs have opened you up.
That's about the only really effective MG-toting build though; it has the benefit of heavy armour (416 points, almost double of what a Firestarter can have), dual PPCs (or ERPPCs if you think the added heat outweighs the 90m minimum range) to strip you open in 20-damage chunks at ranges double that of the ML, and once you get within 200m the 6 DPS of the MGs will tear you apart.
Koniving has posted several videos showcasing the 6xMG, 2xPPC JM6-DD to great effect. It's a viable build, good enough in many peoples' eyes to stop the MG from getting any further buffs (even though I personally think it's silly to make the MG sub-par just because a single build is effective with them).
Edited by stjobe, 28 February 2014 - 09:07 AM.
#76
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Posted 28 February 2014 - 08:56 AM
IceCase88, on 28 February 2014 - 06:58 AM, said:
Screw that! I am sold! The new meta has arrived! MGs for all my mechs now!
I cannot wait to load my JM6-DD with 6 MGs and small lasers! DPS will be epic!
Here is the monster!
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...86b5c48fe731dbe
And now I can actually equip a mech with the "useful" command console and CASE! Talk about epic pwnage! I hope my secret does not get out!
Edited for added sarcasm.
You know now that you mention it the MGs must be the reason for my success with the JM6-DD; it could not be the twin LBXs or MLs must be the MGs.
#78
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Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:12 AM
Read all of this OP and don't just ignore it.
I was in my Jenner as usual on one of the hot maps. I dueled with a Spider with 4 x MG's and 1 ER LL.
We were alone throughout the entire duel.
We fought evenly but he only managed to get my armor into the orange and only thanks to an occasional shot with the ER LL.
What kind of weapon did i use to bring him down? 3x SL and 1 ER LL. The SL's did most of the damage because it was so hot.
Then i took off both his legs. If you can't understand that MG's are only effective against internals with this much evidence then i believe you only made this thread to annoy people.
You just want to be a menace so you can get some attention.
I was in my Jenner as usual on one of the hot maps. I dueled with a Spider with 4 x MG's and 1 ER LL.
We were alone throughout the entire duel.
We fought evenly but he only managed to get my armor into the orange and only thanks to an occasional shot with the ER LL.
What kind of weapon did i use to bring him down? 3x SL and 1 ER LL. The SL's did most of the damage because it was so hot.
Then i took off both his legs. If you can't understand that MG's are only effective against internals with this much evidence then i believe you only made this thread to annoy people.
You just want to be a menace so you can get some attention.
Edited by Spleenslitta, 02 March 2014 - 04:28 AM.
#79
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Posted 06 March 2014 - 03:30 PM
2 ft of steel for a .50 cal? You are no marine then or a dumb one. I love the Ma Deuce but it won't go through 2ft of steel. I've been a tanker and a .50 is for troops and light skinned vehicles like a truck. Even in the Gulf War a 25mm on a Bradley shooting point blank at an Iraqi tank wasn't doing a whole lot.
That MG's in MWO do any damage is ridiculous. Also lights should not be able to withstand close combat. They are for scouting and shooting at range. The fact that they just have to run around at close range and not get hit has more to do with server lag than anything or some other technical issue.
That MG's in MWO do any damage is ridiculous. Also lights should not be able to withstand close combat. They are for scouting and shooting at range. The fact that they just have to run around at close range and not get hit has more to do with server lag than anything or some other technical issue.
#80
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- Overlord
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Posted 06 March 2014 - 04:25 PM
stjobe, on 28 February 2014 - 07:13 AM, said:
Do it this way and you do have a real monster. 6 MG isn't anything to sneer at once dual PPCs have opened you up.
That's about the only really effective MG-toting build though; it has the benefit of heavy armour (416 points, almost double of what a Firestarter can have), dual PPCs (or ERPPCs if you think the added heat outweighs the 90m minimum range) to strip you open in 20-damage chunks at ranges double that of the ML, and once you get within 200m the 6 DPS of the MGs will tear you apart.
Koniving has posted several videos showcasing the 6xMG, 2xPPC JM6-DD to great effect. It's a viable build, good enough in many peoples' eyes to stop the MG from getting any further buffs (even though I personally think it's silly to make the MG sub-par just because a single build is effective with them).
That's about the only really effective MG-toting build though; it has the benefit of heavy armour (416 points, almost double of what a Firestarter can have), dual PPCs (or ERPPCs if you think the added heat outweighs the 90m minimum range) to strip you open in 20-damage chunks at ranges double that of the ML, and once you get within 200m the 6 DPS of the MGs will tear you apart.
Koniving has posted several videos showcasing the 6xMG, 2xPPC JM6-DD to great effect. It's a viable build, good enough in many peoples' eyes to stop the MG from getting any further buffs (even though I personally think it's silly to make the MG sub-par just because a single build is effective with them).
Looks over at the Splat-a-pult dreaming about 2.5 SRM's.
Boats nerf weapons, all the babies whine.!
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