52 replies to this topic

[Kesslan]

I dunno I had my 5 matches won in bout 3 hours of play is all I can say. Sometimes you get paired up with terrible teams and sometimes not. But people are right, the ELO is totally hosed.

[Suko]

Whenever a tournament or event like this comes up, I need to learn to just avoid MWO. I'm not a terrible player either, but these events just turn out with the worst d@mn luck for me. Like you, it took me nearly 2.5 hours to get my 5 wins, when literally two nights previously I won 7/9 games in the course of 1.5 hours.

I think these events just bring out the worst in everyone. Meta builds will be prevalent "for the win" and noobs come back after being gone for 2 months "for the loot", and the regulars get stuck in the middle of the sandwich of stupid.

I haven't even had the slightest urge to touch MWO since that terrible fail session last weekend.

Edited by ShadowVFX, 28 February 2014 - 12:53 PM.

[Belorion]

Dreamslave, on 25 February 2014 - 04:14 AM, said:

My current KDR is over 3.0, my highest being 7.4 last year. I've played a lot more games solo over the last 6 months, hence the plummeting of that number. Now, I'm not saying KDR is the end all be all way to judge a players skill, but I have just over 3000 matches played and over 2300 of them are wins.

I generally put the KDR people into two camps. Those that always play out the last of their games shutdown when they are losing, or commit suicide so that they are not killed. We have all seen these players in drops, they aren't good players, but they are good at gaming the system. The other group are the ones that are always playing the meta, and play with a group of people.

Not saying you are one or the other, but if you are playing in a group its a lot easier to win.

[Dreamslave]

Belorion, on 28 February 2014 - 05:04 PM, said:

I generally put the KDR people into two camps. Those that always play out the last of their games shutdown when they are losing, or commit suicide so that they are not killed. We have all seen these players in drops, they aren't good players, but they are good at gaming the system. The other group are the ones that are always playing the meta, and play with a group of people.

Not saying you are one or the other, but if you are playing in a group its a lot easier to win.

Oh, I agree. But KDR is a good indicator if someone is actually a good/intelligent player (for the most part). If my KDR is high (which it is), it means I know which enemy targets are wounded and I kill them. Which is the simplest and most effective way to win a match. Kill more of your opponents team members then they kill of yours. a high KDR means that at the very least, you are killing multiple opponents, meaning you are targeting the weakest members of a team and eliminating them entirely, which is an extremely effective and valid strategy. Just to repeat, I am not saying that KDR is the only stat that matters and that it is the only way to judge a god player from a bad one, because it most certainly isn't. But when used correctly, it helps a great deal.

I'll admit, I originally made this thread partly out of frustration at the fact that I Didn't end up getting my CN9-A(C), which bummed me out the most because it is the mech I pilot the most and have been piloting since closed beta. I have every version of the CN9, except the (C) version because I Was unlucky enough to be dropped with the very worst this game has to offer.

I am glad that this thread has produced some valid discussion, however. That is certainly something I am glad still happens on these forums.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

i pug regularly some matches dont even get a kill just a bunch of assists?

not sure what the problem is but i have the problem where i may win 3-12 matches in a row to lose an equal amount or more then win 3-12 matches in a row again and this vicious cycle repeats itself?

maybe you are concentrating on your KDR ratio to much? I always play the "hunter" where I take it upon myself to be the mech in the right position to support my team?

its important to remember tactics, remember you as an individual are completely irrelevent if you dont know how to read the battlefield and then position yourself in the right spot.

i would say 100% of wins that arent a result of my team just running the other team over, are a result of knowing what to do when and then doing it.

winning while pugging is mostly whether or not you meet that one or two guys that can match you before you run into the other 10 that cant?

idk tactics and positioning seem waaaay OP to me over many many many other factors.
1 learn to read the battlefield <- absolute must and it does feel like the first 20-100 matches are needed to start getting a grasp on this concept.
2 learn to support your team, concentrating on your KDR is simply going to MAKE you lose every single match until you learn that your team is far more important than your skill individually and that your individual skill is useless if you dont know where your mech should be in relation to your team and the enemy.

thats what it seems like to me honestly lol.

watch these vids, notice where i move and watch my tactics relevent to the dots on radar
and enjoy the music

http://www.twitch.tv...rac/b/504865048

http://www.twitch.tv...rac/b/505146124

both games only 2 kills, kills mean nothing if you cant work with your team.

how to play lights

http://www.twitch.tv...rac/b/504556233

http://www.twitch.tv...rac/b/504516065

http://www.twitch.tv...rac/b/504519915

remember to skip like 2 min in some vids MM takes forever

Edited by Mellifluer, 01 March 2014 - 09:29 AM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Dreamslave, on 25 February 2014 - 04:14 AM, said:

My current KDR is over 3.0, my highest being 7.4 last year. I've played a lot more games solo over the last 6 months, hence the plummeting of that number. Now, I'm not saying KDR is the end all be all way to judge a players skill, but I have just over 3000 matches played and over 2300 of them are wins.

For whatever reason my signature isn't working, but I've been a part of The Templars MercGroup since early closed beta. I learned a lot and got extremely good at this game very quickly. But I Also learned within my first week that it's a team work based game, something that PUGs lack in large amounts. Which leads me to believe that I was just horrifically unlucky in whatever matchups I received during my futile attempt to take part in this bonus event by PGI.

Maybe next time =/

Did you earn that magnificent KDR back in CB? Or back when 4/8-mans could play regularly in the public queue? I do not get the vibe like your stats are "current" with the game, not that I am trying to denigrate you. Just that what worked in earlier iterations of the game (especially considering people got some pretty padded stats via 4/8-mans in public) will definitely not necessarily work now, especially when pugging.

I got my five wins pugging in about 7 matches (about average given my W/L %). Played pure pug last night for the tournament for over 30 matches, again with about 59% wins (19 of 32).

You might have drifted to an Elo tier where there are a ton more new players etc, and while I love that crowd because they are increasing the playerbase, it can be frustrating as hell to play with more than one or two in a game over and over.

Better luck next time OP.

Edited by Lukoi, 01 March 2014 - 09:30 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Dreamslave, on 28 February 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

Welp, I guess this is where I throw in the towel.

If you play on this account with a team and you are losing your shirt PUG, start a PUG only account, see if you have the same trouble with it as you are as Dreamslave.

You might be surprised at the difference a PUG only account will have.

[Dreamslave]

Lukoi, on 01 March 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

Did you earn that magnificent KDR back in CB? Or back when 4/8-mans could play regularly in the public queue? I do not get the vibe like your stats are "current" with the game, not that I am trying to denigrate you. Just that what worked in earlier iterations of the game (especially considering people got some pretty padded stats via 4/8-mans in public) will definitely not necessarily work now, especially when pugging.

I got my five wins pugging in about 7 matches (about average given my W/L %). Played pure pug last night for the tournament for over 30 matches, again with about 59% wins (19 of 32).

You might have drifted to an Elo tier where there are a ton more new players etc, and while I love that crowd because they are increasing the playerbase, it can be frustrating as hell to play with more than one or two in a game over and over.

Better luck next time OP.

Fortunately, that's not the case. I have played straight through up until just a few months ago, so both my highest kdr and my current kdr of right around 3.0 is current to relatively current. We won't even talk about what my KDR got up to during the pugstomp fest of CB.

Basically what's happening, as many others have mentioned, is that the way this games ELO system apparently works is that it takes great players and throws them in with awful players, for a "balanced" ELO. Which is just a horrific way to go about things.

Joseph Mallan, on 01 March 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

If you play on this account with a team and you are losing your shirt PUG, start a PUG only account, see if you have the same trouble with it as you are as Dreamslave.

You might be surprised at the difference a PUG only account will have.

I've done that twice over my MWO career, both times ending up with me eventually getting to the same spot I'm in now. I'll admit, decimating noobies on a new account is fun for a few hours, but it quickly gets boring. Then after it gets boring my ELO catches up to my skill level and I'm back to square 1 again.

[wanderer]

Quote

Basically what's happening, as many others have mentioned, is that the way this games ELO system apparently works is that it takes great players and throws them in with awful players, for a "balanced" ELO. Which is just a horrific way to go about things.

This. Given a PUG, the MM's response to a winning streak is to dump a player in with a team composed of many low-ELO players in junk 'Mechs until you've lost enough to bring yourself closer to 50%. While ELO is -technically- matched with the other team, that's because it's better players generally stuck in with ones so new their ELO isn't too far off the "average". I keep seeing games with players who don't know how to fire an LRM, ask obviously newbie questions like "Why don't I get C-bills anymore?" (hint: Just finished their 25-Cadet matches), and are still riding Trials without their own 'Mechs.

These are the guys I keep seeing devoured before they break 100 damage in matches,if they even make double digits.

I suppose if you're high enough ELO to not be in the same range as these players, life is different...but most of us aren't.

[Joseph Mallan]

Dreamslave, on 01 March 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

I've done that twice over my MWO career, both times ending up with me eventually getting to the same spot I'm in now. I'll admit, decimating noobies on a new account is fun for a few hours, but it quickly gets boring. Then after it gets boring my ELO catches up to my skill level and I'm back to square 1 again.

That is interesting. I have different levels of success depending on how I played the Alt. The more restrictive the lower my Successes. As a PUG only Alt, Anton has the best game right behind this account. And I do mean right behind Stats are less than 0.1 difference.

[needforsleep]

I won my 5 matches back to back. Just because you're having trouble with it, OP, doesnt mean everyone does.

[Mawai]

I think it took me around 12 to 13 matches. I pretty much only play PUG. I stated with a losing streak of 5 in a row which was pretty demoralizing. If your ELO has been estimated correctly then your win/loss rate should be around 1 and the average number of matches required should be around 10. This will typically take on the order of 2 hours of play to achieve.

Other factors affecting this are:
1) bad luck - poor team mates, disconnects etc, bad match balance in terms of tonnage (usually due to premades dropping either all assault or all light).

2) poor personal performance - if you want wins for a contest this is not the time to level up a new mech since the it lacks the pilot skills and if you have played the class before the ELO estimated for you will be incorrect in the new mech.

3) Team organization - I usually try to toss in comments like "regroup", "stay grouped and focus fire", "Opposing mechs in XXX" - these seem to make a difference sometimes and some folks seem to pay more attention and work together better when they know there are others paying attention.

4) Team play or lack of it - I find that folks in lights often overestimate their invincibility ... if you run into several opponents you may likley survive but you will take a lot of damage and do very little in return ... it is a bad trade off but lots of light pilots just love running and jumping in before realizing how many opponents there really are in the location ... (I speak from experience ... I have mastered 5 lights so far and sometimes the enjoyment of running around fast blasting opponents overcomes the battelfield awareness needed to survive and support the team ... at least for me). Lights aren't the only culprit ... the Atlas D-DC in one match who walked around towards the opposing base while the rest of the team was slaughtered in a melee in the middle of the map was particularly annoying especially when they said they were fitted for brawling so the they decided to do something else ... when in fact the match developed into a brawl in the middle and the Atlas could have been really useful . I think there were 8 of us spectating when the remaining opponents caught up with him.

You can't do anything about the luck ... but you can influence the other 3 factors to a greater or lesser extent.

[Macksheen]

Don't trust stats.

Just keep pugging.

You may have awesome stats from largely team-vs-pug or team-vs-team ... but team is a safety net. No one has your back, no one is guaranteed to be watching your's or anyone else's weak side. Plus, if team-play has elevated your Elo (because a team works better together, thus wins more) then you're getting thrown in PUG matches against other high-Elo folks who may or may not be in a group. Essentially, your Elo is a composite ... and you've changed one of the environmental factors around your success. If you had an Elo for single-drops, it may not be as high - but you're still playing against the same rated players (who may be grouping).

And, of course, horrid luck.