135 replies to this topic

[benefedaykin]

30-60 seconds is FOREVER in a game... you're pretty much dead in most MW games (online) if you shutdown for 10-20 seconds let alone 30-60...

I think 10-20 seconds is fine for a shutdown window, but it should really be based on when your heat level drops below critical (obviously it will drop faster if you have more heat sinks). Maybe if your pilot tries to restart before the heat level has dropped back down to normal he/she gets burned and sparks come out of the console... just a though.

You would have no instruments during a shutdown, so you should have to LISTEN for the mech to cool. Maybe play a sound of an engine stuttering and dying and then have some steam vent in front of the cockpit and mist up the bottom of the viewscreen.

Or you could have a voice actor que when you can restart the mech if you are playing on basic heat settings (if they go with this idea)


Not serious, but lolz:
Duncan Fisher: "I remember the last time I overheated a mech. I was twelve. It just goes to show how far the skill of mech pilots has dropped since I left the ring. I doubt this guy will last long. He hasn't even restarted his mech yet."

Edited by benefedaykin, 16 November 2011 - 08:58 AM.

[feor]

Leonardo Monteiro, on 16 November 2011 - 03:30 AM, said:

Why not have both worlds?

Piranha needs to make a game that pleases us, battletech junkies, and new players that might not appreciate, or at least understand some points such as Heat management.

So make a selection option on heat managemnt:
- Simple: Heat shutdown time is minimum, weapons stop randomly firing if heat builds up,then you shut down - but you pay this by having a sort of heat penalty (you heat faster). This is simple enough for newbies to get the concept, without them becoming ridiculous targets
- Advanced: Big shutdown time. However, because you should manage your heat (paying attention, proper weapon cycling, etc.), you get no penalties.

Just a thought

I like the idea, but I think easier would just to be if you're on "simple" heat management, it stops you from firing any weapons that would push you over the shutdown threshold. Advanced wouldn't limit you, you go over heat, you have a chance to hit an override button a couple times, but eventually the timer on that is too short and you shut down, and you mech starts sinking heat until you're cool enough to reactivate. (however long that may be)

[LaorDeLove]

You could add multiple over heats would damage internal circuits. The Med Laser boats that over heat could start experiencing HUD failures, weapons doing less damage, or just not firing at all. I work on PCs and I am dealing with a 360 overheating. When they over heat, they have system failures in strange ways. Imagine if they lose Radar/ability to gather information; an atlas could literally sneak up on them and waste them with a full salvo in the back. I think heat should play a bigger part in this game.

[Havoc2]

benefedaykin, on 16 November 2011 - 08:50 AM, said:

30-60 seconds is FOREVER in a game... you're pretty much dead in most MW games (online) if you shutdown for 10-20 seconds let alone 30-60...

I think 10-20 seconds is fine for a shutdown window, but it should really be based on when your heat level drops below critical (obviously it will drop faster if you have more heat sinks). Maybe if your pilot tries to restart before the heat level has dropped back down to normal he/she gets burned and sparks come out of the console... just a though.

You would have no instruments during a shutdown, so you should have to LISTEN for the mech to cool. Maybe play a sound of an engine stuttering and dying and then have some steam vent in front of the cockpit and mist up the bottom of the viewscreen.

Or you could have a voice actor que when you can restart the mech if you are playing on basic heat settings (if they go with this idea)


Not serious, but lolz:
Duncan Fisher: "I remember the last time I overheated a mech. I was twelve. It just goes to show how far the skill of mech pilots has dropped since I left the ring. I doubt this guy will last long. He hasn't even restarted his mech yet."

IMO the 'Mech shutdown is a safety mechanism built into the 'Mech's on-board computer. Shutdown should be able to be manually overridden with a risk of ammo cook offs, pilot passing out, whatever really bad things you can imagine. At a certain point the 'Mech shuts down to prevent the reactor from overheating.
Once that has happened, you are SOL in controlling your 'Mech's start-up, ammo ejection etc. All you can do is wait until your heat reaches a minimal level (say 50% if 0% is shutdown and 100% is maximum capacity. Automatic shutdown without ability to override is 125%) and THEN you need to wait until your 'Mech goes through it's start-up sequence. Pilot passing out could occur if you keep your temperature above 90% for a prolonged period of time.

The start-up sequence should always take the same amount of time, but the time that it takes to get from that 125% heat capacity to 50% varies on your environment, equipped heat sinks etc.

[feor]

Just for referance:
In the board game you can run your mech to 400 heat if you want, unless your mech's taken a life support hit your pilot will never take damage from overheating.

Now, when your mech shuts down it's likely to fall on its face, and the pilot might take damage if he misses the jesus handle during the fall.
He'll also take damage from neural-feedback if your ammo cooks off as the result of overheating.

[I R O N Patriot]

I Think If you do not do "a certain sequence of things" (ie a set of Button sequences at a chance of making it faster 3-10 seconds) then go make a sandwich.

Example: let's say O - Override, R - Reboot, C - Coolant Splash, and X - Start up. then you'd have to press (O, C, R, X.)
or you could make it like a mini puzzle of sorts that you have to follow the button combo flashed on the screen.
(lame game reference but) Like in Sid Meier's Pirates when you fight or dance int he game. Might even want to
Incorporate a pilot skill level with it were it is really hard for n00b levels but easier with more advanced skill levels.

[ice trey]

None of the above.

It's however long it takes for your 'mech to cool back down from where you are, to the "Safe Zone"

so, if you were just barely riding the heat gauge and your 'mech shut down, it should not take very long. 10 seconds, maybe.

If you have the minimum number of heat sinks, a weapons loadout that consists of 50 tons worth of energy weapons, and decide to alpha strike, chances are that if you don't automatically die via being roasted alive in the cockpit, then you will be shut down for a very long while.

This should all be proportionate to how heat accumulation and dissipation is treated in the game.

Furthermore, there should be no coolant flushing. It renders the low-heat benefits of ballistic weaponry useless.

Edited by ice trey, 17 November 2011 - 12:37 AM.

[CeeKay Boques]

The question is, once you shut down, can you hit Override? Or if you miss your "WARNING, SHUTDOWN IMMANENT" window of 3 seconds are you doomed to go to Zero? Or do you roll every second based on your Pilot Skill?

Edit: That passcode idea is great tygr, mini games can be all kinds of fun.

Edited by Technoviking, 17 November 2011 - 12:53 AM.

[Tsen Shang]

Max Liao, on 16 November 2011 - 04:25 AM, said:

10 seconds. Then you either restart (if your heat drops low enough), or you (well, the game code) roll again for a restart. Rince/repeat every 10 seconds until restart or death.

This. IIRC each turn in the TT represents 10 seconds. Overheat rules were well made and depend on how much you decided to cook your mech.

[Omega59er]

I didn't answer the poll, because it would all depend on the amount of Heat Sinks you have and if you have it, how much coolant you flush. You shouldn't be shut down for a pre-determined amount of time, but for a time period that takes into consideration your heat level. Flush coolant to cool down and restart from an overheat quicker.

[CeeKay Boques]

Tsen Shang, on 17 November 2011 - 01:10 AM, said:

This. IIRC each turn in the TT represents 10 seconds. Overheat rules were well made and depend on how much you decided to cook your mech.

I'll give you two rolls instead each 10 seconds for $2.99.

[terminator]

Really depend on a lot of factors. If the gameplay/battling is very fast paced then the shutdown has to be fast... For example, if it takes 2-3 min of full fighting a mech 1 on 1 for a mech to be destroyed, then shutdown should be about 10 seconds-15seconds. If it takes just only 2 full salvos of whatever to down a mech, then shutdown should be like 3 seconds. If there is respawning, then it should be shorter etc. But as stated it depends on the heatsink and other attributes.

What i don't want to see is a mech can be completely destroyed while shut down and I mean from full health to dead all in the span of 1 shutdown. so I definitely think 30 seconds is WAY to long.

Edited by terminator, 17 November 2011 - 03:18 AM.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

Again, depends on the # of heat sinks you got, and by how much you overheated.
So in most cases 20 seconds or so.

[Woodstock]

Yeach, on 15 November 2011 - 09:57 PM, said:

Depends on the number of heatsinks you have.
The more you have the faster restart should be.

Agreed ... but There should be a minimum as the mech's systems would need some time to do checks and power up.

I dont think 20-30 seconds is an unfair amount of time for that process. With 30 being for mechs with a few heatsinks and 20 being for lots of heatsinks

[Melissia]

Quite some time-- 20-30 sounds good for me, plenty of time for me to punish a foolish enemy that pushed their 'mech too hard. Heat management should be an important part of the game.

Edited by Melissia, 17 November 2011 - 03:54 AM.

[Havoc2]

terminator, on 17 November 2011 - 03:16 AM, said:

What i don't want to see is a mech can be completely destroyed while shut down and I mean from full health to dead all in the span of 1 shutdown. so I definitely think 30 seconds is WAY to long.

That is EXACTLY what should happen.

If you gamble and push your 'Mech too hard and shutdown, you're a sitting duck. Depending on how far over you pushed it and how many heat sinks you have, it should not be unreasonable to go from full health to dead as you're sitting there thinking about how you should have waited a few more seconds to fire.

[Melissia]

Especially since your enemies are thinking "quick, they're a sitting duck, finish 'em off before they get back up!" and will probably focus fire on you.

[Dihm]

20-30 seconds of shutdown will drive people away from the game.

[MaddMaxx]

Dihm, on 17 November 2011 - 05:23 AM, said:

20-30 seconds of shutdown will drive people away from the game.

This.

Heat management on the level many want really adds to immersion but also detracts from the FUN factor. Learning Heat management should not be a chore, but also I am a BIG fan of Heat being a game play component. But seeing as the hard core BT'ers make up less than enough to run a Online franchise it would behoove the Dev to make heat a detriment to FUN.

As noted above, somewhere. Have different play modes that can turn off Heat so those who just want to run and gun, and don't care about the Merc Corp persistence side of things, or those who will bore quickly if asked to learn to drive a BattleMech can still have their FUN.

If we split the difference, say it takes 5-7 seconds to run the shut down sequence, all the while Heat is dissipated, then the reverse brings it back online you get a 15 seconds full cycle. This can modified by skills or overrides but then overrides would force the Mech to not allow further Heat build up so as to not destroy the internal mechanism or ammo. Add another 15 seconds. Go hide, find a lake or just pull back.

Override prevents shutdown, it should never allow a pilot to fire further heat inducing weapons until the Heat gauge allows it.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

For those that just want to run & gun have auto heat - have weapons not firing and a nasty voice going"heat overload" etc but no shutdown.
For those of us who (theoretically) know what were doing allow judgement - and shutdown if we get it wrong. After all if it means you get to kill their last major mech and you've got lancemates to run interference it might be worth a shutdown - we are after all supposed to be Mech Warriors.