223 replies to this topic

[Bagheera]

Mister Blastman, on 26 February 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:

I tip my hat to Jman way more than he probably realizes. I have major respect for him and his continued running of the Hunchback.

Indeed. More proof it's the player more than anything else. I look forward to losing a hbk duel to Jman some day, if I could ever play at his ELO.

[Mister Blastman]

Josef Nader, on 26 February 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

Boy, your rose colored nostalgia glasses must have lenses the size of trash can lids. Outside of the occasional monumental screw up that made the game temporarily unplayable (LRMpocalypse, the Atlas' quantum hitbox that caused server crashes), the game has been nothing but better since closed beta.

Maybe we played a different game back then, but I remember back when the gauss was the only useful weapon in the game and everything else was completely handicapping yourself. I remember when the only way to hit a light mech was to have it plow into you and then wait 5 seconds while the server resolved where it landed, and then and only then would you have a split second to shoot it before it entered back into the Speedforce and became unhittable (I'm looking at you, Trollmando). I remember when Dragons could kung-fu kick Atlai over and keep going because of bugged collisions. I cut my teeth on the 120 kph SLunchback. The game has done nothing but improve since I started playing.

Nah they aren't big.

My Dragon was a menace. A scourge of the battlefield. It leveled 'mechs of all sizes. My 1C and 1N were pure terror.

I feared the K2 Gaussapult, yes, as it was the one thing that could take me down quickly... but using my speed, stealth and cunning, I'd hunt them down and fillet them. I wouldn't come out unscathed... I'd probably lose all my armor in my torso... but I'd take them down.

My Hunchback 4SP... oh dear. That was a death machine. I'd kill anything in seconds with it using lasers + SRMs. All the way up until they nerfed the engine sizes. It was downhill for the SP from there.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 26 February 2014 - 11:30 AM.

[Deathlike]

Dymlos2003, on 26 February 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

12 mans are boring.

Sure they are, but when what you see in them will "effectively" be the norm in CW play, you can have your "fun" while losing.

Mister Blastman, on 26 February 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:

I tip my hat to Jman way more than he probably realizes. I have major respect for him and his continued running of the Hunchback.

Since the Grid Iron, I don't think he's left that mech. That and his small laser fetish. I will never get it. I tell it to his face for good measure.

[Dymlos2003]

Deathlike, on 26 February 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

Sure they are, but when what you see in them will "effectively" be the norm in CW play, you can have your "fun" while losing.




Since the Grid Iron, I don't think he's left that mech. That and his small laser fetish. I will never get it. I tell it to his face for good measure.

Not if you play in private leagues like most of us will. With rules, scenarios, and actual skill. That's coming in a month as well.

I could care less about CW unless you can deny attacks from certain groups.

[East Indy]

Deathlike, on 26 February 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

The actual difference between that and LBX10, is that the spread on the LBX10 is OK, but the damage dealt is weak due to the natural spread (it's somewhat less concentrated, since it covers a wider area - you don't have an Artemis equivalent to work with) and the damage per pellet does not generate enough damage to justify its use over the AC10 or even the UAC5 (pinpoint damage). Noone is asking the LBX10 do deal 20 damage in total... but something like 14 (1.4 per pellet) is not unreasonable.

Right, but we're still struggling with two problems: one, players can "duct-tape" weapons together for very high damage in one spot at long range, no introduction necessary; but, two, and this is where I think there's another way, the LB has the same cycle time as its counterpart standard AC, and it shouldn't. Crank up its DPS, and while you're not dealing pinpoint, you are dealing more damage -- and in a different way. Otherwise, I think it's just making the LB fall in line with current meta.

[Mcgral18]

Dymlos2003, on 26 February 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

12 mans are boring.




I'm pretty effective in my builds. All you guys still haven't asked how you're supposed to use these weapons. Don't you know what they were used for?

Tell us great master Epeen! Are you a Lord? How does one play a lb10 in the frontloaded meta?!

[Trauglodyte]

Deathlike, on 26 February 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

Too bad the answer to SRMs at the moment is chain fire. As far as I'm told, it works better... even for the lag impaired.

It's a solution, but not the solution. When you have to chain fire into the target instead of one big alpha dump, you are committing the same issues that lasers have over PPCs... having to show your face longer than you should. That's why this needs to be fixed ASAP.

I said this the other day.

Thing is, MISSILES need to be fixed in general. LRMs still suffer from hit registry at times on top of missile waste and location impact on Lights (which is outright stupid). SRMs are working but, like you said, don't always land when they do land. My issue with what Blastman is saying, though, lies in the fact that we're reverting the game back to a time when SRMs were only viable because they WERE broken. They're only bad now, not because of the damage, but because you're only doing 60% of possible damage on 60% of the missiles that land (missile waste on top of hit registry). Do we really want to apply another bandaid to a small error filled part of the game when the landscape isn't finished and a lot of what is a part of the environment is broken and preventing the first part's use?

[Dymlos2003]

Mcgral18, on 26 February 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

Tell us great master Epeen! Are you a Lord? How does one play a lb10 in the frontloaded meta?!

I don't get why you say that, you said you aren't effective and I told you I am. Who are the lords? By being skillful, they are crit seekers afterall.

If I could break the meta, so can others.

[Deathlike]

East Indy, on 26 February 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

Right, but we're still struggling with two problems: one, players can "duct-tape" weapons together for very high damage in one spot at long range, no introduction necessary; but, two, and this is where I think there's another way, the LB has the same cycle time as its counterpart standard AC, and it shouldn't. Crank up its DPS, and while you're not dealing pinpoint, you are dealing more damage -- and in a different way. Otherwise, I think it's just making the LB fall in line with current meta.

It won't. If you've ever seen and/or used LBX in MW4, they did it right. Damage increases while you close the gap onto your enemy. It was pretty straight forward and rewarded you for doing exactly what makes it effective... short ranged/facehugging brawling. That's the pure definition. Sure it DOES become pinpoint, but you know, how about rewarding people for actually GETTING THERE, particularly in this LONG RANGE PPC/AC META. That's the difference. Risk-reward. RIght now, it's out of whack where PPC usages risk @ long distance is so much lower than the reward. It's that's simple.

[Dymlos2003]

Deathlike, on 26 February 2014 - 11:40 AM, said:

It won't. If you've ever seen and/or used LBX in MW4, they did it right. Damage increases while you close the gap onto your enemy. It was pretty straight forward and rewarded you for doing exactly what makes it effective... short ranged/facehugging brawling. That's the pure definition. Sure it DOES become pinpoint, but you know, how about rewarding people for actually GETTING THERE, particularly in this LONG RANGE PPC/AC META. That's the difference. Risk-reward. RIght now, it's out of whack where PPC usages risk @ long distance is so much lower than the reward. It's that's simple.

That's what the LBX does now in MWO?

[Mcgral18]

Dymlos2003, on 26 February 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

I don't get why you say that, you said you aren't effective and I told you I am. Who are the lords? By being skillful, they are crit seekers afterall.

If I could break the meta, so can others.

It's horrid as a crit weapon, since it doesn't do 10 damage at once, so it doesn't crit anything in a single strike, unlike the ac10, ppc or ac20.

[Dymlos2003]

Mcgral18, on 26 February 2014 - 11:48 AM, said:

It's horrid as a crit weapon, since it doesn't do 10 damage at once, so it doesn't crit anything in a single strike, unlike the ac10, ppc or ac20.

Oh my... You really have no idea do you...

[East Indy]

Deathlike, on 26 February 2014 - 11:40 AM, said:

Sure it DOES become pinpoint, but you know, how about rewarding people for actually GETTING THERE, particularly in this LONG RANGE PPC/AC META.

It would make more sense to find a more effective/transparent restriction on pinpoint, so players have a more interesting choice between direct/spread damage. (That's aside from SRM technical issues.)

[Mcgral18]

Dymlos2003, on 26 February 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

Oh my... You really have no idea do you...

Please tell us how basic arithmetic is failing you.

Why am I wrong? I've told you why it isn't good, tell us why you think it is.

[Deathlike]

Dymlos2003, on 26 February 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

That's what the LBX does now in MWO?

lol no. Nothing like it.

Here's a quick comparison, the gold standard known as MW4's LBXs.



IIRC, the damage dealt was 28 (max) on the Clan LBX20 (not sure if Mektek changed it at any point for MW4 Mercs). It was only 24 (max) damage in the original MW4 game. It was very effective for the tonnage consumed for it.

Even the LBX10 was relatively useful for "LBX filler" when you couldn't add another LBX20. In MWO, this is not the case at all.

Edited by Deathlike, 26 February 2014 - 11:53 AM.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 26 February 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Please tell us how basic arithmetic is failing you.

Why am I wrong? I've told you why it isn't good, tell us why you think it is.

LBX is only guaranteed to crit something out of there is like ONE thing in the section that it is hitting. So, if you're like the AC20 Jager, OF COURSE, the AC20 in the arm will go away quickly. However, if you're like the classic Hunchback-4P where you have lots of stuff in the torsos (4DHS on the left, 6meds+2DHS on the right), the LBX "crit" action has a very futile chance of critting stuff out. By the time it's done, you would've already removed that section of the mech with a better weapon, like the AC10 or even UAC5.

To say "LBX is better" is not understanding LBX at all.

[Dymlos2003]

Mcgral18, on 26 February 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

Please tell us how basic arithmetic is failing you.

Why am I wrong? I've told you why it isn't good, tell us why you think it is.

Cause you have no idea what a critical hit is? You think front loading damage is doing a critical hit.

Simple math doesn't do anything here. The LBX has a higher crit chance than normal weapons. Each pellet has a chance to do more damage to open components. That's 10 pellets to do a crit.
The same thing for srms. I forgot the math, it's like 2 or 3x the damage.

This is why you use these weapons. Open their mechs up with lasers and then crit them.

[Deathlike]

Dymlos2003, on 26 February 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

Cause you have no idea what a critical hit is? You think front loading damage is doing a critical hit.

Simple math doesn't do anything here. The LBX has a higher crit chance than normal weapons. Each pellet has a chance to do more damage to open components. That's 10 pellets to do a crit.
The same thing for srms. I forgot the math, it's like 2 or 3x the damage.

This is why you use these weapons. Open their mechs up with lasers and then crit them.

Right... that's why we need an 11 ton weapon to "crit stuff out", when we have effective 7 ton weapons (PPC) or 6 tons of good weaponry (6 mediums) or 5 tons of a pretty good weapon (Large Lasers or ERLarge) to accomplish the same task. Wow, amazing!

[Dymlos2003]

Deathlike, on 26 February 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

LBX is only guaranteed to crit something out of there is like ONE thing in the section that it is hitting. So, if you're like the AC20 Jager, OF COURSE, the AC20 in the arm will go away quickly. However, if you're like the classic Hunchback-4P where you have lots of stuff in the torsos (4DHS on the left, 6meds+2DHS on the right), the LBX "crit" action has a very futile chance of critting stuff out. By the time it's done, you would've already removed that section of the mech with a better weapon, like the AC10 or even UAC5.

To say "LBX is better" is not understanding LBX at all.

You need to use it and it's not a futile chance. It happens pretty often. Most of my brawlers carry one.

Deathlike, on 26 February 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

Right... that's why we need an 11 ton weapon to "crit stuff out", when we have effective 7 ton weapons (PPC) or 6 tons of good weaponry (6 mediums) or 5 tons of a pretty good weapon (Large Lasers or ERLarge) to accomplish the same task. Wow, amazing!

Different situations bro. Learn to use them.

[Deathlike]

Dymlos2003, on 26 February 2014 - 12:01 PM, said:

You need to use it and it's not a futile chance. It happens pretty often. Most of my brawlers carry one.

It's worthless when everything else is far more efficient.

Quote

Different situations bro. Learn to use them.

There's literally no situation that another weapon can't do the same or better at lowered requirements with equal or better effectiveness. Sorry, I don't buy it.