28 replies to this topic

[Polignac]

I want to gauge people's take on the "front" concept at the center of Community Warfare when it finally releases.

For those that aren't familiar (and from my understanding), each faction will have fronts with other factions. These fronts will consist of a stretch of border worlds between the two factions, and once one faction controls those worlds, it gains various game perks (cheaper mechs, etc.). As it stands, I think some players currently believe the Inner Sphere will be entirely open, that their faction will be able to conquer the entire Inner Sphere. Instead, the best a faction could do is control all the border worlds along their various frontiers; they can control all their fronts. Bryan Ekman spells out the basic CW plan in this launch video.

While it's tempting to dream of conquering the entire IS, the front concept does ensure that all factions continue to exist and that the game doesn't stray too far from lore. As is, however, I'm worried that bigger factions will permanently control their fronts. Say, for example, that the Federated Suns (being the IS's golden boy) has a massive player base...will they just constantly control their fronts by sheer numbers? Do smaller factions with fewer players have a chance at controlling their fronts?

What are your thoughts? What do you like/dislike about the front system?

[Craig Steele]

I suspect its party balanced by the alliance / bucket thing.

For example, if there are a lot of Davion players fighting and the game has run out of Clan apponents, then those Davions will go to the Marik / Liao / Kurita border right.

But they will be defended by pilots from that alliance, so we might see 6 Liao's in a team defending a Kuritan planet. Or Maybe the Marik guys defending a Kuritan planet against the Clans.

If thats how it works out, its going to be horribly uncanon but is probably one way they can manage the player population into MM. So factions with smaller player populations will have support from their (hopefully) larger alliance factions.

[Polignac]

I forgot that Ekman does say that Lonewolfs could help fill out the ranks.

Edited by Polignac, 24 February 2014 - 11:21 PM.

[Fooooo]

Having lower numbers should not effect the "front warfare" really.

If you have lower numbers you get a faster queue but it doesnt mean the enemy faction gets more matches than you. They can only play who is online atm etc...........

So in theory, if there was NOBODY online of say steiner (and nobody affiliated online also....mercs / lonewolves) yet thousands of dracs, and there was a front that steiner and drac were fighting over......the dracs would get no games or somewhat low amount of games that effect that front.

So I don't think there is much to worry about there.


What you would want to worry about is one side having a lot of good 4-12mans that hardly ever lose and play a ton. That should mean they will win most of their fronts & the planets after that and never lose them unless there is a reset etc.
(but thats how it should work, stronger team wins. Tho i'd say players would swap affiliations sometimes after a season / reset happens etc)


It ofc relys on certain player number thesholds also. (if there is 5-10x as many lonewolves than good groups on both sides having those good premades may not do much as they cannot play more wins against the swarm of solos playing their factions solos's and beating them etc...)

What they can do tho is actually take the planets once a front is taken, (well mercs only at first........), which the solo players most likely cant............

Edited by Fooooo, 25 February 2014 - 12:23 AM.

[Blue Shadow]

It sounds like a boring idea to me, a few little perks is not much to be fighting for. I'd rather see each faction with a set of core worlds that can't be taken (thus no faction can be totally obliterated) leaving 90% of every factions territory fair game to be taken by another (if they are able).

[vetal l]

What about timeshift?
Imagine that Draconis Combine players live in GMT+5, while Lyrian Commonwealth .. well... GMT-3 for example.
And Federated Suns ...errrm... GMT-11.

I cannot imagine any front line where battles looks like ocean waves - here and 8 hour later - there... here... there... weird.

[Craig Steele]

Fooooo, on 25 February 2014 - 12:17 AM, said:

So in theory, if there was NOBODY online of say steiner (and nobody affiliated online also....mercs / lonewolves) yet thousands of dracs, and there was a front that steiner and drac were fighting over......the dracs would get no games or somewhat low amount of games that effect that front.

Actually I suspect whats more likely to happen is that Davion and FRR will defend that Steiner front or the Kuritans will be instead fighting on the Liao or Marik fronts.

They are talking as if all players go into one of 3 alliances and then the player population is drawn from there.

[Lupin]

God I must be REALLY out of touch (Even though I am in forum every day) as I have not see that video before.
Bad communication PGI skills strikes again.

Can see a lot of mercs and lone wolfs making up the balance when one factor or another not available to attack or defend.
Or that some types of scenario (That's a word I did not expect to be using with MWO) not being available at all times.

[Davers]

The more I read about CW the sadder I get. How is that a game that was in beta for less than a year in 2001 could have 5 factions fighting each other but MW:O can't? Instead the whole population will be divided into Red and Blue. Where is the chance to have epic warfare? Where are the invasions and the deployment of units? Where are house units fighting for their own house? I thought LWs filled the ranks, not other factions. It's just so...unambitious. No Guts, No Galaxy indeed.

[Craig Steele]

Davers, on 25 February 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

The more I read about CW the sadder I get. How is that a game that was in beta for less than a year in 2001 could have 5 factions fighting each other but MW:O can't? Instead the whole population will be divided into Red and Blue. Where is the chance to have epic warfare? Where are the invasions and the deployment of units? Where are house units fighting for their own house? I thought LWs filled the ranks, not other factions. It's just so...unambitious. No Guts, No Galaxy indeed.

LNW's if alliance population is short. So yes still rounding out a team.

Maybe this isn't what it is, but it's the conclusion I come to from all the bits and pieces.

It is a bit sad if so. No Liao vs Marik scrabbling over Andurien, Liao and Marik fighting Clans defending Kuritan borders. Kuritans / FRR fighting for Marik / Steiner Worlds or Liao / Davion worlds while the Clans are 1 jump from Luthien / Rasalhague.

Hopefully some more detail comes out soon to shed some light on the vision PGI have.

[Davers]

Craig Steele, on 25 February 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

LNW's if alliance population is short. So yes still rounding out a team.

Maybe this isn't what it is, but it's the conclusion I come to from all the bits and pieces.

It is a bit sad if so. No Liao vs Marik scrabbling over Andurien, Liao and Marik fighting Clans defending Kuritan borders. Kuritans / FRR fighting for Marik / Steiner Worlds or Liao / Davion worlds while the Clans are 1 jump from Luthien / Rasalhague.

Hopefully some more detail comes out soon to shed some light on the vision PGI have.

What's worse is when it will be only 2 buckets- Clan vs IS. Guess no IS vs IS anymore, of Clan vs Clan. Honestly I have seen better CW in player made TT campaigns.

[Will9761]

I wish we could capture/use exclusive faction mechs. I have always wanted to encounter mechs like the Vindicator, Hatamoto-Chi and Zeus in the future. Imagine how fierce the fighting would be if faction based mechs were on the line. Steiner players would get be awarded large amount of loyalty points, XP and C-bill boost for defend a Zeus mech plant from Marik or Liao players. The same for Kuritan players who defend a Hatamoto-Chi plant from Davion and Steiner players. Besides, I know some people who have been wanting these mechs for a while. This could be a good incentive for the Planetary Phase of Community Warefare for faction players.

Edited by Will9761, 25 February 2014 - 05:30 PM.

[Craig Steele]

Davers, on 25 February 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

What's worse is when it will be only 2 buckets- Clan vs IS. Guess no IS vs IS anymore, of Clan vs Clan. Honestly I have seen better CW in player made TT campaigns.

Ummm, I understood there will be 3 buckets so IS vs IS can still happen, its just the factions a player has will not 'necessarily' determine the front. EG, Kurita fighting on Marik / Lyran border.

[Johnny Z]

What's the best over all strategy game of all time? That would be Medieval II: Total War. That series redifined strategy gaming as we know it, and after the 10th release and making trillions it has proven to be very entertaining. (ok maybe not trillions, but close )

Anyway, I think the world map view of those games, although not original in themselves would make an excellent example for what the inner sphere map could possibly mirror in some ways.

This is the quickest way for me to explain some of the things i would like to see done with the faction warfare map of the inner sphere.

Specifically I would like to see the faction capitals being able to be taken of any of the factions, but then like in the above mentioned series of games, the faction could re-emerge at a later date. The players of that faction would be in exile until that happened. So house Davion player would have new title for a while, possibly forced to fight for other houses as lone wolves for instance.


The main point is that this scenario would make for EPIC battles, one side seeking to simply survive while the other seeks to buy time to focus on other fronts.......

Anyway this is a vague idea, thats worth at least considering for the faction warfare, and using other strategy games as insiration is a must.

Btw this idea does address the op's idea that some factions would permanently control their fronts. If done properly the factions re-emerge behind enemy lines and at random time making it very tough to defend against immediately. The emerging faction would have some time for quick victories possibly. Again this is all guessing what functions the star map will have or not.

Edited by Johnny Z, 25 February 2014 - 07:47 PM.

[Davers]

Peiper, on 22 February 2014 - 05:55 PM, said:

At any given time there will only be TWO faction buckets. Currently IS alliance vs. IS alliance and when clans come out, Clan bucket vs. IS bucket (in the public faction play)!

Craig Steele, on 25 February 2014 - 05:31 PM, said:

Ummm, I understood there will be 3 buckets so IS vs IS can still happen, its just the factions a player has will not 'necessarily' determine the front. EG, Kurita fighting on Marik / Lyran border.

Doesn't sound like 3 buckets to me.

[pbiggz]

Davers, on 25 February 2014 - 07:43 PM, said:

Doesn't sound like 3 buckets to me.

No sense whining until they have a solid command chair post out with regards to it.

Should I be surprised that people are beginning to complain about Community Warfare itself? The very feature people have wanted for years now?

[Sinthrow]

What I see is that the matchmaker will fill 2 buckets, two houses and lonewolfs to fill each bucket, once the bucket is filled the game launches, we will fight over the border worlds that those 2 houses share. I don't think they will mix houses only lone wolfs will fill gaps. I also believe they will try to keep some form of elo scores when filling the buckets so most of the time. the matches should be somewhat close.
So one drop you fight Kurita, next Marirk, then clan wolf, and so on.
the Mercs, they will set up drop times and pick there battles. do like private games over planets and contracts.

Normal pickup games will be over border worlds, but I hope after all the border worlds are taken that they redraw the lines.

Edited by Sinthrow, 26 February 2014 - 11:05 AM.

[Davers]

pbiggz, on 26 February 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

No sense whining until they have a solid command chair post out with regards to it.

Should I be surprised that people are beginning to complain about Community Warfare itself? The very feature people have wanted for years now?

Because it doesn't resemble the CW that people wanted or expected. If they had stated 2 years ago that CW consisted dividing the IS into Red and Blue then fighting it out in 3 man pug matches there might have been less enthusiasm.

[pbiggz]

Davers, on 26 February 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

Because it doesn't resemble the CW that people wanted or expected. If they had stated 2 years ago that CW consisted dividing the IS into Red and Blue then fighting it out in 3 man pug matches there might have been less enthusiasm.

3 man pug matches?

They pretty much said right off the bat we would be fighting over border worlds, not core worlds.

[xhrit]

Blue Shadow, on 25 February 2014 - 01:13 AM, said:

It sounds like a boring idea to me, a few little perks is not much to be fighting for. I'd rather see each faction with a set of core worlds that can't be taken (thus no faction can be totally obliterated) leaving 90% of every factions territory fair game to be taken by another (if they are able).

All I could think about while I was playing Elder Scrolls Online, is why can't we have open world pvp in MWO?

Because reasons.

/sadface.