86 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 28 February 2014 - 03:55 PM, said:

Personally I think it should be 4L 5M 2H 1A

Well, it should be if we're trying to emulate Inner Sphere weight class distribution (30% lights, 40% mediums, 20% heavies, and 10% assaults).

Although the "standard 'mech lance" according to the 2nd edition BattleTech rulebook is 1 light, 1 medium, and 2 heavies, there are many variants on a 'mech lance (Recon, Striker, Assault, Reinforced - 5 'mechs in that one, and so on and so forth), so 1/1/1/1 isn't a bad compromise.

[Artgathan]

I keep thinking that we're just going to see premades of 3 Assault, 1 Heavy so that they can carry a team even easier (since they'll control ~40% of their team's firepower).

Also, why not go the LoL route and figure out what "bonus" should be applied to a Premade's Elo? If this was done we could run 12-premade vs 12-PUG and it could potentially be a fair fight (you'd have coordination on one side, but better individual pilots on the other).

[Joseph Mallan]

3rdworld, on 28 February 2014 - 05:59 AM, said:

The purpose is balance.

They can't balance the game for Chassis variations and mech balance, so the only remedy for it they can make is for the match maker to account for it. or in this case hard limit it.

Defenders should probably receive a better drop deck than 3/3/3/3 considering there are no "defenses" to speak of which would give the defenders the usual advantage. But it is probably a bit ambitious to be concerned with CW at this point. We will likely be lucky to do anything other than have general unit associations by christmas.

Also 3/3/3/3 is a pretty awful drop deck. I don't think I have played a comp match with less than 4 lights in a very very long time. 4/2/2/4 would probably be better for the way the general population plays this game in terms of queue wait times.

Why do I want to be fair to the Swords of Kenares If they are coming to my Planet to take my stuff? I mean if all I am doing is playing to see if I have a bigger Epeen sure balanced is the way to go, But I am not here to play a Tournament. I am here to fight a pretend war against someone trying to take over the known universe. Balanced means all the weapons work as intended, everyone can have the same equipment if they spend the cash (In game or real). After that you bring your A game I bring mine And we see who wins. Thats all the fair I need.

[wwiiogre]

Launch Module is for pug matches, but is also the first part of the lobby system to setup and play CW matches would be my guess.

So it really is hard to prejudge that at the moment until we try it and see what its like. Both free and premium versions of private matchmaker. Who knows we really do not know what the CW planet defense matches will be like. What options will be available for attacker or defender or even if they will be different or a bidding system of sorts where one picks one option while the other picks a different option back and forth until the match starts. Similar to a duel, you challenge someone to a duel, they accept and pick the type of duel, then you pick weapons, then they pick place, etc. etc.

Chris

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 March 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

Why do I want to be fair to the Swords of Kenares If they are coming to my Planet to take my stuff? I mean if all I am doing is playing to see if I have a bigger Epeen sure balanced is the way to go, But I am not here to play a Tournament. I am here to fight a pretend war against someone trying to take over the known universe. Balanced means all the weapons work as intended, everyone can have the same equipment if they spend the cash (In game or real). After that you bring your A game I bring mine And we see who wins. Thats all the fair I need.

If you read my post I agreed that defenders should have an advantage either via game mode (giving defenders defenses etc), or simply a better drop deck than 3's. But that has to do with CW, which is a bit overzealous to be concerned with right now. (so we agree on this?)

That being said pug drops (which is what we are talking about), should have fair or balanced drops. While you may like seeing the enemy out number your assault mechs 2/1, the amount of whine associate with weight in the matchmaker on this board alone, would lead any individual to believe you are the minority. (I actually don't really see the need for the MM over-hall, I can't think of too many matches I have played that being completely over-tonned was the deciding factor, but if it makes the gaming experience better for others, sure, go for it. It probably won't have much of an effect on me. At the very least it should remove the tonnage whine threads)

Edited by 3rdworld, 01 March 2014 - 01:23 PM.

[LawDawg]

Tycho von Gagern, on 26 February 2014 - 08:08 PM, said:

Hello.

I just listened to the NGNG podcast with Brian Ekman. Apparently, we're going to be getting class limits instead of tonnage (3 assaults, 3 heavies, 3 mediums, and 3 lights per team). While I welcome any attempts to curtail the overabundance of big-tonnage mechs in the PUG, I'm worried that class limits will ultimately steer players into the upper-tonnage mechs in each class.

The assaults will be all right, I think. The lighter mechs within the class are largely superior to the 100-ton (f)Atlas. But I think we'll still see a lot of the DCC, for obvious reasons. The smallest of the assaults, the Victor at 80 tons, is one of the best mechs in the game. Awesome devotees, whom I have the utmost respect and admiration for, may be in trouble. But you've been taking [REDACTED] for your mech for a long time now, so you're used to it.

Heavies will probably be OK, as well. There is a lot of variety within the class, many solid builds to chose from. From the deceptively-tankish Orion to the meta-obvious 'phract to the dakka-happy jag to the plucky "little" Cat. I think we'll still see plenty of variety among the heavies. The Dragon may become more rare, but frankly I've always thought it was a pretty lousy design, anyway (no offense to any Dragon-bowlers out there!). The Quickdraw is, in my opinion, already even more of a unicorn than the Awesome.

Among the lights, the high-end of the class means Firestarters, Jenners, Ravens, and Spiders. Pretty much all you see anyway, with the little Commandos and Locusts more a curiosity than anything else. So yeah, no big changes there.

I'm worried specifically about the medium class, which is what I've been running lately (so maybe I'm biased, I'll admit). There is such a huge difference between the 55-tonners and the rest of the class. At least there are a lot of 55-tonners to chose from. But what about the rest of the mediums? Will we see less and less of the 40-ton almost-a-light Cicada? The freakishly hard-to-kill, how-the-hell-did-they-shoehorn-an-AC20-into-that-guy's-arm!?!? 50-ton Centurion? Should I mothball my sweet little "pair-o-deuces" 45-ton Blackjack and get comfortable in my admittedly lethal-as-all-hell Shawk, again?

I'm not here to say "the sky is falling" or "this will ruin the game." I know we'll have to wait and see how this all plays out before making any real judgements. I also believe, as I said earlier, that any step toward limiting the number of big-mechs on the field is ultimately a step in the right direction. I just wanted to express my concerns and see what the community at large thinks.

Thanks and good hunting.

Edited for grammar and clarity.

I've been dropping ALOT today, in various mechs. I cant say ive ever seen games come SO close! Every game (-1-2) are nail biters from what ive been put in. The injection of Mediums has had a sway on the BF.

<BUFF MEDIUMS>!

Edited by SLDF LawDog, 01 March 2014 - 01:37 PM.

[Voivode]

Pjwned, on 28 February 2014 - 03:59 PM, said:

Not having abysmal wait times in a queue shouldn't be a motivation to switch to another mech, that just shows something is wrong with the game (read: balance isssues that should be addressed by fixing the mechs/weapons themselves) when that starts happening and it just makes everybody annoyed. That's also ignoring people that don't enjoy playing smaller mechs and people that are actually a credit to their team besides being a damage sponge.

Hey, once the dungeon queue hit WoW a lot of people rolled healers and tanks for the shorter wait times. If nothing else, this system will give a TON of metric data to PGI as they make their passes over mediums.

As for "being a credit" to the team, I think mediums will shine a little more with fewer assaults and heavies on the battlefield. If you had a TT drop that looked like an MWO drop (almost exclusively assaults and heavies) then the TT medium would do about as well as the MWO medium.

TT had a system, battle value, that restricted the "bring six Highlanders and four Cataphracts" that seems to have overtaken MWO.