Jump to content

84% Of Players Pug In A Team Oriented Game?

Gameplay

504 replies to this topic

#461 Sandpit

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 17,419 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationArkansas

Posted 20 March 2014 - 07:45 AM

View PostRoadbeer, on 20 March 2014 - 06:28 AM, said:

Private match exploiters has become the new boogeyman.
Can't allow groups because Evil Premades are just out to ROFLSTOMP PUGS...
Can't allow groups to have rewards because Evil Premade Exploiters will (insert evil thing premades do here) the system.

Just come to the conclusion that teams are OP and have no place in MWO mainstream

#462 Novakaine

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 5,734 posts
  • LocationThe Republic of Texas

Posted 20 March 2014 - 07:53 AM

View PostRoadbeer, on 20 March 2014 - 06:28 AM, said:

Private match exploiters has become the new boogeyman.
Can't allow groups because Evil Premades are just out to ROFLSTOMP PUGS...
Can't allow groups to have rewards because Evil Premade Exploiters will (insert evil thing premades do here) the system.


Can't find my tinfoil hat, but I'm tellin ya Roadie I'm smelling a conspiracy here.
Ah heck boss is coming I'll explain later.

#463 Roadbeer

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • 8,160 posts
  • LocationWazan, Zion Cluster

Posted 20 March 2014 - 08:03 AM

View PostNovakaine, on 20 March 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

Can't find my tinfoil hat, but I'm tellin ya Roadie I'm smelling a conspiracy here.
Ah heck boss is coming I'll explain later.

Already have mine on

#464 Sandpit

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 17,419 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationArkansas

Posted 20 March 2014 - 08:06 AM

Well hopefully Russ and crew ARE actually looking into options for groups. He went silent when I asked him for clarification though :\

#465 NeonKnight

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Patron Saint
  • The Patron Saint
  • 567 posts
  • LocationSurrey, BC, Canada

Posted 20 March 2014 - 02:07 PM

I said it in another thread, but when PGI DELIBERATELY skews the game in favor of Single player and then trots out metrics stating: LOOK! 84% are single players!

Look at this weekend's upcoming competition. It specifically stats that solo dropping is the only way to participate. So, I wonder what the majority of people playing this weekend will be?

How about a FACTION COMPETITION where you must drop in teams of 4 to qualify? Won;t ever happen as all the PUG players and premade haters will kvetch and moan the game is 'geared against them!'

So, instead, this weekend we will see players drop into a match, forego any tactics, rush blindly in to get as many points as quickly as they can (or hang in the back and only rush out once that mech you've been brawling with that took you down to internals is cherry red, and one shot kill them out from under you). Because I can see it now, as soon as the enemy team is even PERCIEVED as gaining the upper hand the DISCONNECTS will start, leaving one side more hampered then they were moments before.

#466 Novakaine

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 5,734 posts
  • LocationThe Republic of Texas

Posted 20 March 2014 - 08:12 PM

Ok here's my wild eyed theory.
1. Any meaningful CW is just too big and a expensive chunk for PGI to swallow now.
2. So beyond a leader board and a map of the Inner Sphere there's not much they can do.
3. So how to solve that problem? Easy eliminate the need to even have CW in the first place.
4. Simply disenfranchise teams of the means to even be a team.
5. Elo works a number on the team game, because most team will have players of varying skill levels.
6. Thus when groups try to sync drop their elo's and the matchmaker prevent the 2 4 man groups from being on the same side or even on the same map at times.
7. All in the name of preventing pug stomps.
8. So by making too difficult to drop in a group larger than 4 most teams simply gave up on sync dropping.
9. Thus giving them the required numbers to say 84% drop solo and not even counting that for 4 man as a team period.
10. So by basically giving the teams the proverbial boot they can now reason there's really not any need to develop any real community warfare.
11. Oh they'll be factions and group claiming this name or that but it will only be in name only
12. And finally the insidious ploy of monetizing the lobbies and then penalizing any one who plays in them by not giving any kind of reward for there efforts.
13. So whose gonna spend mc on lobbies with the massive detriments to even playing in a lobby?
14. Nobody
15. So with virtually empty lobbies PGI can then claim that no one wants that feature and shut them down after 90 days or so.
16. Since the supposed vast majority of players only want to drop solo in pug matches, because that's where the cb's are.
17. No need for lobbies or community warfare in general beyond that silly leader board and unchanging map of the Inner Sphere.
18. Then there's the Clankers and that's another monster under the bed.
Well Nova's tinfoil hat has melted so I'm done if I'm wrong I'll be the first to apologize.
Will this kill the game?
Nooooooo, but a big chunk of it will simply vanish into the history of vaporware.
Back to my rubber room on the island, bring me some K-Town cakes sometimes.

Edited by Novakaine, 20 March 2014 - 08:13 PM.


#467 slide

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,768 posts
  • LocationKersbrook South Australia

Posted 20 March 2014 - 10:18 PM

^ This sums it nicely I think

Thanks Nova

#468 Randalf Yorgen

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,026 posts
  • Locationwith in 3m of the exposed Arcons rear ct

Posted 22 March 2014 - 04:21 AM

I can see how players are going to exploit the game, if they ever allow CBill transfers. Create a new account, Farm hard for the 25 bonus income matches, send the money to the "Bank" create a new account. PGI thinks that they have TONS of new players and are giggling and smiling all the while they are driving off the cliff.

Also, anyone give part 2 of the interview a listen/read? I think Russ needs to get away from the up the butt smoke blowing crowd over there and actually get in the mix over here. I'll get the coffee and tylenol ready for the massive reality headache he will no doubt be suffering as the fantasy bubble that the devs have been living in is burst.

On a side note, dropped a few times last night with one of my evil teams,(you know, those teams of 4 friends who aren't playing the meta game and just enjoy dropping together) had a really good night as all the Comp players were tripping over themselves trying to get a hit or a kill for themselves. In this Comp environment, which is the solo game that PGI wants, teams DO have a vast advantage. Thanks PGI, if you don't find another path for the game I will be able to leave with at least one happy memory since closed Beta.

#469 Klaus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 297 posts

Posted 23 March 2014 - 12:18 PM

http://youtu.be/eqsAvKqqf2g

When you have a community full of Malik's that think they're too good to wobble it, this is what you get.

No seriously. Look at what the population is like from an outsider's perspective.

1) What seems to be the majority community is full of rude no-nothings that some, still to this day, refuse to acknowledge the meta.They don't read chat, they don't react to anything, and they certainly aren't going to be told what to do.

2) The biggest minority is even ruder pubstompers that seem to think that going 12-1 with a premade of 4 jump snipers against champion mechs is "competitive plays".

Now when you have people like that trying to play a "team" game where roles are not clearly defined or balanced and the focus is not on winning but kill stealing, this is what happens.

#470 Sandpit

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 17,419 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationArkansas

Posted 23 March 2014 - 12:25 PM

View PostKlaus, on 23 March 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

http://youtu.be/eqsAvKqqf2g

When you have a community full of Malik's that think they're too good to wobble it, this is what you get.

No seriously. Look at what the population is like from an outsider's perspective.

1) What seems to be the majority community is full of rude no-nothings that some, still to this day, refuse to acknowledge the meta.They don't read chat, they don't react to anything, and they certainly aren't going to be told what to do.

2) The biggest minority is even ruder pubstompers that seem to think that going 12-1 with a premade of 4 jump snipers against champion mechs is "competitive plays".

Now when you have people like that trying to play a "team" game where roles are not clearly defined or balanced and the focus is not on winning but kill stealing, this is what happens.

I almost took offense to that post. I read Marik's instead of Malik's lol

#471 Sephlock

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 10,819 posts

Posted 23 March 2014 - 02:02 PM

View PostSandpit, on 18 March 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

Uhm Vet =/= skill

A vet in the 1000-1500 bracket is STILL going to have a huge advantage over new players learning the game and playing in trial mechs. Period.


#472 Novakaine

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 5,734 posts
  • LocationThe Republic of Texas

Posted 23 March 2014 - 07:50 PM

View PostSandpit, on 23 March 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

I almost took offense to that post. I read Marik's instead of Malik's lol

Thought they were one and the same Sandy.
Hahahahaha.
Never waste an opportunity to insult a Marik.

#473 Artgathan

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 1,764 posts

Posted 24 March 2014 - 07:11 AM

Just had a thought: why not treat premade teams as a "player" in matchmaking?

What I'm suggesting is this:
  • When Player A and B first play together, their Group Elo is calculated as their average Elo
  • This average Elo score is treated independently from their individual Elo scores from this point on
  • When Players A & B play together, their Group Elo changes but their individual Elo scores remain constant
  • If a third player, C, joins the group a new Group Elo is assigned (IE: we start back at step one - averaging the player's Elo scores, or averaging Group A + B's Elo score with Player C).
Advantages of this approach:
  • Very Granular Elo Matchmaking of groups is possible. The matchmaker can now account for the "strength" of a given group of players regardless of the performance of the individual players in that group.
  • Can allow for groups of size greater than 4, since the Group Elo can help determine who can fight against the group
Disadvantages of this approach:
  • Teams at the very top / bottom ends will experience problems with MM
  • PGI will need to track a lot more data (since it will need to track Elo scores for all existing player combinations)


#474 LowSubmarino

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • 1,091 posts

Posted 24 March 2014 - 09:13 AM

View PostName115734, on 27 February 2014 - 02:57 AM, said:

So the latest metrics tell us that teams are dwindling more and more. I have personally experienced this after coming back from 9 months of not playing to find most of the people used to play with and their respective teams either completely vanished or lapsed into inactivity.

When 8v8 came out in December 2012 our channels in the NA teamspeak would fill up fast with people looking for 8's, once the initial novelty wore off, only true premade teams would bother going through the hassle, and what a hassle it was, to actually try and get 8 man's going. Players didn't stop 8 man's due to competition, as premade haters, would like to believe, it came down to being a HUGE hassle to try to get an 8 man going.

So here we are 12's have come and very few people play them, 1%. Teams have either died out or lost many members. And we are stuck with a PUG experience, because to be honest PGI catered to the PUGs like an 80 yr old grandmother does her so-cute-its-ugly puppy.

Do you want to see teams come back in this "team oriented" game, or are you all for the randomness of these seeming endless meaningless battles?

Imagine what "Community Warfare" will look like if this 84% trend continues to grow, who cares about loyalties and fighting for houses or clans, we might as well all just stay mercenary.

Who really wants to play as team right? Its just so HARD to coordinate with other people and actually learn to cooperate.



I agree that the game would be infinitely more enjoyable if it had more depth and complexity combined with its fun gameplay.

What I would really like is a complex financial system within the game. Repairing mechs, rearming them, selling components, etc.

There should be more value attached to cbills besides buying new mechs or equipment. They should allow you to e.g. hire engineers or scientists for your garage which are expensive but lower overall repair costs. There should be powerful mechs and builds but they should be very costly to maintain and wont allow you to earn much as they require all the cash to maintain or most of it. So you can drop in heavy or assault mechs with 50 + alpha strike damage but if you drop with them all the time you will eventually be broke. Something along these lines would give mech/loadout choices more importance.

Right now, as the op mentioned, there is only meaningless combat. The gameplay is fun. The combat is fun but right now it is only that. Combat. There is no depth in terms of how to "manage" your mechs and resources. This sense of accomplishment is completly missing as anybody can get any mech after playing (or even losing) a dozen or two dozen games. I remember the sense of accomplishment and thrill when initially saving money for the first mech. That was great. And back then it really felt as if a mech is really something of worth that you gotta work for.

If I had a say I would build the system around this sense of accomplishment and reward. Let a victory or defeat be meaninful at least in terms of the money system. Losing your mech or the game should be expensive. At the very least losing a mech or the game should earn absolutely 0 money. How can I lose my mech, all the weapons and lose the game and then earn 150 k cbills without any kind of prime time or hero mech.

Huge amounts of money flow in and out so everybody can play any mech at any time without worrying about anything else. But that worry builds part of the immersion.

Besides the combat on the battlefield there should be a constant struggle to financially support your mechs, equipment, engineers/scientists.

I would just love a considerable shift from arcade action to simulation at least when it comes to the Mechlab and the organization as well as distribution of resources and equipment. If anybody remembers ufo enemy unkown (haha yeah yeah I know) it had a great, simple resource system and you always had to consider your resources. If you lost too many of your forces you would at some point struggle to even recruit new soldiers or buy new weapons or crafts.

The more you lost in a mission the stronger your economy needed to be to compensate for the loss of an entire craft with all its personell and /or a failed mission.

That was fun and when you won a lot of money or could sell stuff you had this amazing feeling of actually accomplishing something in the game.

And why cant we 'loot' destroyed mechs and sometimes find weapons we can sell, or engines or equipment to help earn more money. There could even be a module which lets you scan and then store looted equipment.

There are so many ideas or possibilities. But as the op mentioned combat is good and all but why is everything automated? Why cant I repair and rearm my mech while trying not to drift into bankruptcy.

Right now it is only click click play. And cofiguring your mech...come on guys. After you have configured your first mech and played around a bit it takes 1 min to build a mech from scratch if you know what kind of build you want.

There is no depth or complexity there.

#475 Warrior UK

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • The Slayer
  • The Slayer
  • 142 posts
  • LocationUK South Coast (Sussex)

Posted 25 March 2014 - 11:56 AM

View PostRichAC, on 27 February 2014 - 03:14 AM, said:

They are coming out with private matches soon hopefully. You can read about it on the forums, I hope units start having their own private tourneys.

Because of low player bases, some games have to force people to play both sides sometimes. The matchmaker has to include everyone. Hopefully it doesn't get that bad. Just have to stick with the game man, till all the wining anonymous carebears disappear and it hopefully grows. Hopefully...


Are we playing the same game and reading the same on the forums, 'what a joke, I'm still laughing', we are getting two types of private matches, one is what we have now 12 v 12 that hardly anyone bothers with due to the hassle of organizing it all and then when you do one or two players have to drop out just for the hassle of finding replacements to start all over again, you spend more time waiting to drop than you do dropping, then we have to other private matches where you need Prem Time which you have to pay real money for unless you have Prem Time stored and waiting to activate but when that runs out you are just stuck with the other unless you buy Prem Time with money and we all know what PGI thinks about money. Myself I feel that they have enough in game already that you can use money for without adding it to the Prem Time in order to be able to drop with any number from 2-12 in a group, plus we have the Clan stuff coming soon which will rake in a nice bank roll for them, god, I have to stop typing due to crying from laughter at you clowns. I can now see why PGI keep adding cash items into this game.

#476 Sandpit

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 17,419 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationArkansas

Posted 25 March 2014 - 11:59 AM

View PostWarrior UK, on 25 March 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:


Are we playing the same game and reading the same on the forums, 'what a joke, I'm still laughing', we are getting two types of private matches, one is what we have now 12 v 12 that hardly anyone bothers with due to the hassle of organizing it all and then when you do one or two players have to drop out just for the hassle of finding replacements to start all over again, you spend more time waiting to drop than you do dropping, then we have to other private matches where you need Prem Time which you have to pay real money for unless you have Prem Time stored and waiting to activate but when that runs out you are just stuck with the other unless you buy Prem Time with money and we all know what PGI thinks about money. Myself I feel that they have enough in game already that you can use money for without adding it to the Prem Time in order to be able to drop with any number from 2-12 in a group, plus we have the Clan stuff coming soon which will rake in a nice bank roll for them, god, I have to stop typing due to crying from laughter at you clowns. I can now see why PGI keep adding cash items into this game.

pssst
you forgot to mention that you earn no "rewards" IE cbills and exp for those private matches that cost you premium time as well

#477 Novakaine

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 5,734 posts
  • LocationThe Republic of Texas

Posted 26 March 2014 - 06:08 PM

View PostWarrior UK, on 25 March 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:


Are we playing the same game and reading the same on the forums, 'what a joke, I'm still laughing', we are getting two types of private matches, one is what we have now 12 v 12 that hardly anyone bothers with due to the hassle of organizing it all and then when you do one or two players have to drop out just for the hassle of finding replacements to start all over again, you spend more time waiting to drop than you do dropping, then we have to other private matches where you need Prem Time which you have to pay real money for unless you have Prem Time stored and waiting to activate but when that runs out you are just stuck with the other unless you buy Prem Time with money and we all know what PGI thinks about money. Myself I feel that they have enough in game already that you can use money for without adding it to the Prem Time in order to be able to drop with any number from 2-12 in a group, plus we have the Clan stuff coming soon which will rake in a nice bank roll for them, god, I have to stop typing due to crying from laughter at you clowns. I can now see why PGI keep adding cash items into this game.


Hey tab up and read my post.
If you're laughing now ya gonna be crying after you read it.
Seriously.

#478 Randalf Yorgen

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,026 posts
  • Locationwith in 3m of the exposed Arcons rear ct

Posted 27 March 2014 - 05:22 AM

View PostSandpit, on 20 March 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

Just come to the conclusion that teams are OP and have no place in MWO mainstream


And neither does my money. When they change things on their end I'll change things on mine, but as I have given them money in the past the ball is now in their court and it is now up to them to EARN a reward from me.

#479 Accursed Richards

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bridesmaid
  • Bridesmaid
  • 412 posts

Posted 29 March 2014 - 11:38 AM

View PostNeonKnight, on 20 March 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

I said it in another thread, but when PGI DELIBERATELY skews the game in favor of Single player and then trots out metrics stating: LOOK! 84% are single players!

Look at this weekend's upcoming competition. It specifically stats that solo dropping is the only way to participate. So, I wonder what the majority of people playing this weekend will be?

How about a FACTION COMPETITION where you must drop in teams of 4 to qualify? Won;t ever happen as all the PUG players and premade haters will kvetch and moan the game is 'geared against them!'

So, instead, this weekend we will see players drop into a match, forego any tactics, rush blindly in to get as many points as quickly as they can (or hang in the back and only rush out once that mech you've been brawling with that took you down to internals is cherry red, and one shot kill them out from under you). Because I can see it now, as soon as the enemy team is even PERCIEVED as gaining the upper hand the DISCONNECTS will start, leaving one side more hampered then they were moments before.


I didn't know Frank Miller played MWO. ;)

#480 KAT Ayanami

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 331 posts

Posted 30 March 2014 - 06:29 PM

View PostName115734, on 27 February 2014 - 02:57 AM, said:

84% Of Players Pug In A Team Oriented Game?



Yep. Some of us have work and things like that. Or maybe our friends play other games (which is the most common case).

Many of us do not have time to enter a clan or a group and play or meet at certain times. What this game needs is in-game voice communication. Like many people say.





3 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 3 guests, 0 anonymous users