504 replies to this topic

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Roadbeer, on 27 February 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

So, have a lot of experience with groups do you?
It's something I participate in every time I play.

Do you feel that you grouping some how makes you an authority on this?

I just like how you guys bounce back and forth. If someone says PGI is wrong you say "But they have the numbers", but when PGI releases actual numbers you say "PGI is wrong, I group all the time, so I know".

You really sound silly.

[RG Notch]

Roadbeer, on 27 February 2014 - 07:56 AM, said:

LOL

But wait, I though the posting behavior of these Mariks were in the vein of "shills", "White Knights" and "PGI Apologists". Wouldn't that be a safe environment for them?

If that's true, why bother interacting with them? You know they will back your decisions and it's not like they will complain on the forums about it. Those are the people you can safely ignore as they don't seem to mind.

[Tw1stedMonkey]

What statistics are all these people using to justify their accusations that group play in this game was or ever could be near 40-50%? I would be surprised if 25-30+% people playing in groups at the peak of group playing. More people just like to casually play games at their own schedules rather than find groups of people, I don't see what is so surprising about that.

[Roadbeer]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 27 February 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

Do you feel that you grouping some how makes you an authority on this?

Considered I've been part of grouping, every day, since the day I came in the game in Closed BETA, and being in units/sub units both large and small along the way, and have experienced every aspect of grouping from 2-8, 4/8 player caps, 4/12 player caps, this gives me over 18 months and over 5,000 drops of anecdotal evidence...

Also having access to the empirical evidence from being an administrator of both the House Marik website and it's TS server...

So, yeah, I believe that makes me a little bit of an authority to speak intelligently on the topic in regards to how grouping is effecting in the microcosm that is the www.house-marik.net community of over 500 active/semi-active members.

[Imperius]

[redacted]

Roadbeer, on 27 February 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

Considered I've been part of grouping, every day, since the day I came in the game in Closed BETA, and being in units/sub units both large and small along the way, and have experienced every aspect of grouping from 2-8, 4/8 player caps, 4/12 player caps, this gives me over 18 months and over 5,000 drops of anecdotal evidence...

Also having access to the empirical evidence from being an administrator of both the House Marik website and it's TS server...

So, yeah, I believe that makes me a little bit of an authority to speak intelligently on the topic in regards to how grouping is effecting in the microcosm that is the www.house-marik.net community of over 500 active/semi-active members.

This thread needs a poll

Edited by miSs, 27 February 2014 - 04:15 PM.
attempts to derail thread

[cSand]

Roadbeer, on 27 February 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

As I've said elsewhere, I believe the statistics they're using are HORRIBLY skewed.

Of the 84% dropping solo, how many of those are the "odd man out", meaning the 5th man?
Let's say, conservatively, 10%.
Also, as some have said, it's easier to get your 5 friends together (if you're near each other in Elo) if none of you are grouped and all trying to sync drop solo. I haven't tried this and it sounds like kinda of a pain in the ass, so we'll give that 5%
Also, when I see 12 mans running, I'll often see a few extras in the room soloing because they're waiting on a spot in the 12 man, because they want to be rotated through that group and don't want to join a smaller group and miss their shot. We'll consider this a relatively low number, but I bring it up just as a "remove from column A and add to column B", but for the sake of argument, let's give it an arbitrary liberal number of 5%
Now, lets add a bunch of unquantifiable reasons like "finding a group with an open slot is a PITA", "It takes my friends list too long to load now" etc, etc, etc and tag on another arbitrary number so we can round everything nicely and say 60% solo and 40% group...

Also in those stats given, 4% were 4 man groups and 10% were 2/3 man groups. My question is, "How many of those would have been larger groups, if not for the 4/12 player cap?" and "How much larger would the 12 player queue be, if you allowed groups to build UP TO 12 players?"

I'm still on my first cup of coffee here, so I'm kinda all over the place, so I'm just going to wrap it up with...

PGI, your statistics on groups, since the 4/8/12 player group caps were implemented, are horrendously bad, and you're looking at the game from the 10,000' view without questioning why the stats have changed and why they are the way they are. You really should interact more with the community's that have formed around the game (I know for a fact they've never approached www.house-marik.net) and find out what our concerns / issues are with group play.

DON'T YOU BRING LOGIC INTO THIS

Tw1stedMonkey, on 27 February 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

What statistics are all these people using to justify their accusations that group play in this game was or ever could be near 40-50%? I would be surprised if 25-30+% people playing in groups at the peak of group playing. More people just like to casually play games at their own schedules rather than find groups of people, I don't see what is so surprising about that.

WEll it may have been true back in closed beta when there was only a couple thousand or so people playing

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Roadbeer, on 27 February 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

As I've said elsewhere, I believe the statistics they're using are HORRIBLY skewed.

Of the 84% dropping solo, how many of those are the "odd man out", meaning the 5th man?
Let's say, conservatively, 10%.
Also, as some have said, it's easier to get your 5 friends together (if you're near each other in Elo) if none of you are grouped and all trying to sync drop solo. I haven't tried this and it sounds like kinda of a pain in the ass, so we'll give that 5%
Also, when I see 12 mans running, I'll often see a few extras in the room soloing because they're waiting on a spot in the 12 man, because they want to be rotated through that group and don't want to join a smaller group and miss their shot. We'll consider this a relatively low number, but I bring it up just as a "remove from column A and add to column B", but for the sake of argument, let's give it an arbitrary liberal number of 5%
Now, lets add a bunch of unquantifiable reasons like "finding a group with an open slot is a PITA", "It takes my friends list too long to load now" etc, etc, etc and tag on another arbitrary number so we can round everything nicely and say 60% solo and 40% group...

Also in those stats given, 4% were 4 man groups and 10% were 2/3 man groups. My question is, "How many of those would have been larger groups, if not for the 4/12 player cap?" and "How much larger would the 12 player queue be, if you allowed groups to build UP TO 12 players?"

I'm still on my first cup of coffee here, so I'm kinda all over the place, so I'm just going to wrap it up with...

PGI, your statistics on groups, since the 4/8/12 player group caps were implemented, are horrendously bad, and you're looking at the game from the 10,000' view without questioning why the stats have changed and why they are the way they are. You really should interact more with the community's that have formed around the game (I know for a fact they've never approached www.house-marik.net) and find out what our concerns / issues are with group play.

How in the hell do you say that 10% of all players are the odd 5th man out when only 4% are playing 4 mans? I mean I can't be the only one who sees this gaping hole in logic? oh and 5% of players are the 13th guy in 12 mans when only 1 % PLAY 12 mans? seriously dude...

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Roadbeer, on 27 February 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

Considered I've been part of grouping, every day, since the day I came in the game in Closed BETA, and being in units/sub units both large and small along the way, and have experienced every aspect of grouping from 2-8, 4/8 player caps, 4/12 player caps, this gives me over 18 months and over 5,000 drops of anecdotal evidence...

Also having access to the empirical evidence from being an administrator of both the House Marik website and it's TS server...

So, yeah, I believe that makes me a little bit of an authority to speak intelligently on the topic in regards to how grouping is effecting in the microcosm that is the www.house-marik.net community of over 500 active/semi-active members.

Hey man, you are the authority. Let me go tweet Russ your post and make sure he knows.

I'm gonna make sure to let Bryan know you said he doesn't know how to do his job too.

Keep an eye out for it.

[Dawnstealer]

When I'm grinding out mechs or c-bills, I'll tend to PUG it up. With all the Phoenix mechs (and me wanting to try out some of new mechs I hadn't piloted before), that means a lot of grinding.

I do drop teams, but typically only on the weekends. From what I've seen, that's pretty standard (at least in my ELO). You occasionally run into a pre-built lance during a weekday/night, but they're rare.

I think VOIP would help, but I also don't like dragging down teammates while I'm just grinding rather than playing to win or taking a build that is more geared towards winning or fitting in a team than just fun.

[Sable]

PGI also also stated that there is a new influx of players, which could mean that people just haven't made friends yet and PUG it. I play on a team amost every day, usually 3-4 man group but i rarely play solo. Since we don't know how large or small the population actually is % of population that do this and that can't really be measured by the players. Every day i see names i do not recognize in my matches. The people that say teamplay is dead remind me of politicians on TV that spew their own views claiming its what most americans think without ever having data to back it up.

[Roadbeer]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 27 February 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

Hey man, you are the authority. Let me go tweet Russ your post and make sure he knows.

I'm gonna make sure to let Bryan know you said he doesn't know how to do his job too.

Keep an eye out for it.

Cool bro, I've already Tweeted him on it too, right after the NGNG #103 interview with Bryan. Thanks for backing my play.

[Name115734]

Sable, on 27 February 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

Every day i see names i do not recognize in my matches. The people that say teamplay is dead remind me of politicians on TV that spew their own views claiming its what most americans think without ever having data to back it up.

Now you are putting words in my mouth to defend your point.

No where did I say teamplay was dead, it is in the minority, in a game that is supposed to be based upon teamplay, there is a disconnect, no?

[mogs01gt]

IMO they need to follow Riot's ranked scheme. Yes their ranked system is a bit "off" but at least they have a rank queue..

Edited by mogs01gt, 27 February 2014 - 09:01 AM.

[Bobzilla]

There is no social aspect in the game. It encourages pugs and discourages premades. The only way to get premades going is externally with not only no help from the game, but with problems in doing so. The game does prove teamwork adds to chance of success, espically with certain equipment being based around teamwork. But a bunch of random people only reacting to the enemy and their own team does not make teamwork. Add better communication (on and off the battlefield), easier group formation with less restrictions, and clan formation in game.

[Deathlike]

I'm not sure if there's anything positive that can be said about the stats, or just this thread.

There's just a lot offputting about the decisions made by PGI, and I don't mean all the randomness in Russ's twitter (because, that's what dev update posts seem to contain). A lot of the decisions made seem to be short sighted... the kinds of things companies and corporations do for the "profit now" instead of "continued longterm profit". It doesn't mean that every decision is wrong, but many of them have had long term consequences... all of which are effectively coming back to bite back @ PGI.

Right now, the community wants less hassle... this means a fast and efficient mechlab (which, UI 2.0 has set some of us back a bit), a fully functional social function (which even today, is inferior to even basic chat apps) including lobbies, and being able to play vs anyone with minimal or agreed-upon restrictions (4-man vs 12-only eats up teams with 5-11 people online). This doesn't even begin to express the lack of in-match tools to make more cohesive teams (VOIP, or just a command rose). There's so many other things I'd love to mention, but ultimately every "solution" by PGI to "resolve this" is simply very short sighted and whether you agree how many actually play... the actual play has slowly decayed where it's almost like I have to be some sort of drill sargent to give people a freaking heads up on how to actually play. It's frustrating to no end.

For just me, it's probably simply easier to ragequit... there's so many excuses I can make to not play the game... asking for what is most important is like trying to change the status quo... and that status quo isn't working the way it should in the first place. I don't even have to get my own personal nitpicks fixed... but PGI not actually understanding the dynamics of what's going on with this game is a slow death.

Like, gameplay balance (yes, this subforum)... instead of just simply "discussing how to balance stuff", a simple community-related event-goal could be achieved (free hanging trinket) for like getting a kill in LBX and then reporting back in some feedback thread and then get it tweaked in subsequent patch or two. You could do this easily for 1 weapon (or weapon system) every month so that people have a goal to play AND give more useful constructive feedback (other than, "it's just fine" when people objectively evaluate the system with numbers to boot). I don't expect the most imaginative stuff here.. but right now, even simple stuff to get people interested AND involved with the game is important.

Otherwise, we're here only to get cash, buy mechs, grind mechs, and the check out for the game for a while. None of this contributes long term growth or stability... just more churn and burn of the turnover. I give up trying give good ideas. There's nothing to be said that hasn't been said before, and yet there's more excuses to made for not playing this game more. It hurts too much.

Edited by Deathlike, 27 February 2014 - 09:24 AM.

[WarHippy]

Bobzilla, on 27 February 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

There is no social aspect in the game. It encourages pugs and discourages premades. The only way to get premades going is externally with not only no help from the game, but with problems in doing so. The game does prove teamwork adds to chance of success, espically with certain equipment being based around teamwork. But a bunch of random people only reacting to the enemy and their own team does not make teamwork. Add better communication (on and off the battlefield), easier group formation with less restrictions, and clan formation in game.

This rings true with me since I pug almost all of the time. This game really puts up a lot of obsticles when it comes to social interaction and grouping up. The few times I have played with other people after Ui2.0 has also made it feel even more cumbersome than before, but that could just be my epic level of laziness. I mean seriously all these extra clicks on top of expecting me to make friends, do you have any idea how long that takes...

Edited by WarHippy, 27 February 2014 - 09:27 AM.

[CygnusX7]

Lack of a quality in-game VOIP system is really bad.
I play a non team oriented multiplayer game which has a fantastic VOIP system (iRacing).

[Imperius]

This should end the thread

VOIP

Edited by Imperius, 27 February 2014 - 09:28 AM.

[Lightfoot]

Teams are not ranked and gain nothing at the moment. Why would you team under those conditions when you can just log in and launch into a match? PUG teams are pretty good gamplay, very unpredictable.

Once CW starts ranking Units and Units start earning faction and planetary control points things will completely shift. Most players will still PUG, but mostly play for their Units and some of those Units will be very good.

[RG Notch]

WarHippy, on 27 February 2014 - 09:12 AM, said:

So report it and ask for it to be moved to the correct location instead of spamming nonsense.

Some folks believe they are above the rules, and PGI agrees.