32 replies to this topic

[Jazzbandit1313]

I've been wondering what people think about certain mechs and whether or not to do standard builds or XL builds. While on almost every mech, there are perks to both types of engine, I think there are some mechs that just cannot rock the standard and perform well. For example, If you don't have an XL in your spider, locust, or really any other light mech, you won't perform nearly as well as lights with XL's. Another mech to consider for this is the cicada. Standard engines just aren't viable at all. Any mechs that you cannot bear to run standards on?

[Bilbo]

I run standard motors on everything but lights.

[Curccu]

Bilbo, on 27 February 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

I run standard motors on everything but lights.

Even Cicadas?

[FireSlade]

I am the opposite where I run XLs on all my mechs, except for my 1 Atlas, so that I can get more speed and a touch more firepower out of my mechs. I primarily run heavies and I like to keep them running at around 81kph so that I can control ranges and keep out of the crosshairs of bigger, and slower assaults. Makes chasing down that last light on skirmish easier too. The downside to playing like this is 1) the cost and 2) I have to play smarter and constantly spread the damage to other areas so that I can fight longer and damage more enemies.

[Bilbo]

Curccu, on 27 February 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

Even Cicadas?

I don't run cicadas. If I want to run a light, I'll run a light.

[Davers]

XLs on most assault mechs isn't a good idea, but I have had some luck using them on Victors. I feel the extra 20kph I get is worth it. I run XLs on every mech that doesn't have a torso mounted AC/20 pretty much.

[Bishop Steiner]

Davers, on 27 February 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

XLs on most assault mechs isn't a good idea, but I have had some luck using them on Victors. I feel the extra 20kph I get is worth it. I run XLs on every mech that doesn't have a torso mounted AC/20 pretty much.

Battlemasters tank well with XLs. And HGNs can run them OK, more dependant on play style.

Atlases and Stalkers are Standard only in my stable, as are MOST HBK variants. Most other mechs I find the heavier firepower/heavier speed of an XL a much better tradeoff for survivability and damage output than the durability of a Standard. My Jagers absolutely have them. My Orions, are a split, but usually have them. I want even my Heavies and Assaults somewhere near 80 KPH, Mediums 90-100, and Lights, pedal to the metal.

[Davers]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 February 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

Battlemasters tank well with XLs. And HGNs can run them OK, more dependant on play style.

Atlases and Stalkers are Standard only in my stable, as are MOST HBK variants. Most other mechs I find the heavier firepower/heavier speed of an XL a much better tradeoff for survivability and damage output than the durability of a Standard. My Jagers absolutely have them. My Orions, are a split, but usually have them. I want even my Heavies and Assaults somewhere near 80 KPH, Mediums 90-100, and Lights, pedal to the metal.

Yeah, I run standards on my Hunchbacks, for the same reason you wouldn't run an XL on a Stalker- that Huge RT. (I am glad they thought the HBK's RT was too small so they made all the guns protrude making it even bigger.)

JJs, firepower, and speed have saved me far more often than having max armor as well.

[Bishop Steiner]

Davers, on 27 February 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

Yeah, I run standards on my Hunchbacks, for the same reason you wouldn't run an XL on a Stalker- that Huge RT. (I am glad they thought the HBK's RT was too small so they made all the guns protrude making it even bigger.)

JJs, firepower, and speed have saved me far more often than having max armor as well.

Yup. Of course, I never have tried using the shoulder missiles in my BLRs, just never tickled my fancy on my build, so maybe it wouldn't affect things, maybe it would. I notice on the 55 ton Triplets the shoulder racks seem to affect my survivability not a whit.

[Dawnstealer]

Standards are required for Atlases, Stalkers, Hunchbacks, and maybe Centurions. That last is debatable because, while you're still alive, you aren't going to be taking out too many people with those two MLs, and if you had had a more zippy XL in there, you might not have gotten zombied in the first place.

[DEMAX51]

My basic rule of thumb: Lights and Heavies get an XL, Mediums and Assaults get a Standard. There are some exceptions, but that's how I roll by and large.

[Bishop Steiner]

Dawnstealer, on 27 February 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Standards are required for Atlases, Stalkers, Hunchbacks, and maybe Centurions. That last is debatable because, while you're still alive, you aren't going to be taking out too many people with those two MLs, and if you had had a more zippy XL in there, you might not have gotten zombied in the first place.

I've found the HBK-4SP and 4J actually run XLs pretty good now. Arms aren't as good at blocking as the Centy, but it's no longer a guaranteed death sentence.

Totally agree with the Centy-sentiment (Centiment?) as the Zombie usually gives up so much ability to affect the matches early by losing the AC. 9 out of 10 Centies I leg at range and ignore til later. The fast Wangs with XLs and ac20s can usually stay hidden til close, and the Centies with ACs can still shoot and engage even legged. The Zombie? It jsut sits there hoping something runs in front of it.

[Jazzbandit1313]

You're all scaring me by telling me mediums should have standards. My CN9-D and my CDA-3M are testaments to the fact that some mediums can be deadly when played well with the right XL

[Bilbo]

Jazzbandit1313, on 27 February 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

You're all scaring me by telling me mediums should have standards. My CN9-D and my CDA-3M are testaments to the fact that some mediums can be deadly when played well with the right XL

You'll notice I consider the cicada a light mech and, as always, there are exceptions to every rule.

[Bishop Steiner]

Jazzbandit1313, on 27 February 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

You're all scaring me by telling me mediums should have standards. My CN9-D and my CDA-3M are testaments to the fact that some mediums can be deadly when played well with the right XL

IMO, the Cicada and all 55 tonners in game are almost essential to mount XL. You will not get any real world extra survivability with a Standard, but you will significantly nerf your speed and firepower, thus making you easy prey to Heavies which now are legitimately better than your 55 tonner in every way. But all 4 spread damage very well, and seem to do quite well with XLs. One of the biggest wastes, IMO is the ShadowHunch, Hunchback wannabe ShadowHawk poptarts. They can do OK, but totally sacrifice the versatility that makes the 55 tonners so good. And they certainly don't do it any better than a CTF-3D does, so if I want's a slow jumping ac20 carrier, I'll upgrade 15 tons, and at least have more firepower and armor to show for it.

The Centy, really depends on opinions, I suppose, but I have XLs in literally ALL of mine, and have since CB. Have run "Zombie builds" and have always walked away singularly unimpressed, especially as I take note of all the scenarios per match were having that AC10 or 20 would have allowed me to make a meaningful contribution, instead of running around with 2 Pew Pews the whole match, being largely ignored because of it, and think "gosh look, I got 500+ damage, I have to have done good" (and maybe a kill or two of mechs that were totally stripped by someone else). That type of damage is almost always faulty logic, as you didn't actually contribute much meaningfully throughout the game, just acted as a carrion eater at the end (and probably still lost). I can pick up crumbs and post 500 pt damage matches in my LCT-1V, that doesn't mean the mech is actually GOOD.

Hunchbacks, well, the 4G, 4P, 4H and GI are pretty much XL unfriendly. Though TBH, there are time where I wonder with them too, if realistically you contribute much on average after being de-hunched. Still, AC20 builds out dual UAC or LB require Standard. The rest can actually do OK with XL, though often with their relatively low speeds, it is somewhat moot.

Trebuchets and BJs I haven't run in a long time, so can't comment on too much.

[mogs01gt]

Dawnstealer, on 27 February 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Standards are required for Atlases, Stalkers, Hunchbacks, and maybe Centurions. That last is debatable because, while you're still alive, you aren't going to be taking out too many people with those two MLs, and if you had had a more zippy XL in there, you might not have gotten zombied in the first place.

Took out a stalker last night with my 2 MLs and on 1 leg. Of course it was me and another 1 legged Jager but still.

[Bishop Steiner]

mogs01gt, on 27 February 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

Took out a stalker last night with my 2 MLs and on 1 leg. Of course it was me and another 1 legged Jager but still.

Cool, and how many times has that NOT worked out so well? Or how many matches would you have been more effective facing it with an AC10, or LB, and such?

That's the thing, is we can all pull out and remember our matches where we did something like this. But at least for me, I have consistently had much more impact on the battle by being faster and better armed, then by being a Zombie. But I also lose that arm less than 50% of the time. But that is also why I prefer the D and YLW to the other variants.

[DarkDevilDancer]

Never use XL's in the following:
Atlas
Stalker
Hunchback

Why? simply they always lose a side torso first so your death will be quick.

Other wise its a risk reward ratio, your more vulnerable but you pack a bigger punch.

[mogs01gt]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 February 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

Cool, and how many times has that NOT worked out so well? Or how many matches would you have been more effective facing it with an AC10, or LB, and such?

That's the thing, is we can all pull out and remember our matches where we did something like this. But at least for me, I have consistently had much more impact on the battle by being faster and better armed, then by being a Zombie. But I also lose that arm less than 50% of the time. But that is also why I prefer the D and YLW to the other variants.

zero, because not having an XL has saved my ass a few times when a loan jager gets lucky shot to a ST. There is zero reasons to put an XL into a Cent unless you want to be useless when your arm gets shot off.

[Bishop Steiner]

mogs01gt, on 27 February 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

zero, because not having an XL has saved my ass a few times when a loan jager gets lucky shot to a ST. There is zero reasons to put an XL into a Cent unless you want to be useless when your arm gets shot off.

so, my 2.0+ KDr on all CN9s (beside the AL...ick) is being useless, eh? Interesting, since I run exclusively XL. Twist and shout lad, twist and shout!