7 replies to this topic

[Foxfire]

It is the fact that you create a weak side vs strong side dynamic.

If you are placed on the weakside(aka the side where it is harder for two sides to join up), then you are automatically disadvantaged in the match. Particularly if you are in a slower mech.

This is especially prevalent on maps like Alpine Peak, HPG Network, and Terra Therma where one side starts with two 'close' groups and one far group.

Either pull the groups back together or evenly distribute the distances between groups so that those who are on the current 'weak' side aren't inherently screwed.

[TehSBGX]

I've been thinking the same thing lately. Spawn points aren't really symetrical enough. Even though the game is totally different from the following, Warcraft and Starcraft are both good examples of symertical starting points. Neither side really has an advantage due to starting points.

PGI could learn a few things from Blizzard on map design. I used to play Warcraft 3 a lot back in the day, and when I lost I knew where I started on a map had nothing to with it, I lost because I made mistakes. MWO should have a similar feel, when you lose it's because you made a mistake not because you dropped on a bad spawn point and needed more time to group up with your team than the other guys. I can't really speak for people that drop in pre-mades, but for pugs, you have to group up immediately and stick together. So which ever side can group up easier in a PUG gets better momentum, which shouldn't be a factor. And with forced Weight Balancing coming around the corner, spawn points need to be seriously looked at.

[MeiSooHaityu]

GIANT TARGET, on 06 March 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

On Alpine Peaks it's a different problem. Usually both teams go to the hill around I9/H9 but Charlie, again being PUGs, often have no idea what to do. Their spawn is so far away from the other lances that the other lances don't show up on their minimaps. The H9/I9 area is in the opposite direction for Bravo and Alpha. So they wander off on their own and get killed.

Your absolutly right. Alpine is one of the biggest culprits when it comes to poor spawn locations.

This map has never been balanced right, but then again, it wasn't designed well to begin with. The maps needs a major overhaul.

[Delas Ting Usee]

It's worse when you play 12 v 12 and you're spilt up...makes command and control that wee bit more challenging - especially with the new 3/3/3/3 structure that PGI is instituting.

[TB Freelancer]

TehSBGX, on 01 March 2014 - 04:31 PM, said:

I've been thinking the same thing lately. Spawn points aren't really symetrical enough. Even though the game is totally different from the following, Warcraft and Starcraft are both good examples of symertical starting points. Neither side really has an advantage due to starting points.

PGI could learn a few things from Blizzard on map design. I used to play Warcraft 3 a lot back in the day, and when I lost I knew where I started on a map had nothing to with it, I lost because I made mistakes. MWO should have a similar feel, when you lose it's because you made a mistake not because you dropped on a bad spawn point and needed more time to group up with your team than the other guys. I can't really speak for people that drop in pre-mades, but for pugs, you have to group up immediately and stick together. So which ever side can group up easier in a PUG gets better momentum, which shouldn't be a factor. And with forced Weight Balancing coming around the corner, spawn points need to be seriously looked at.

Besides all that, there's the prevalent obliviousness of many players, with veterans its outright stupidity.

Start a match and you see the two close lances moving at high speed away from the third lance exacerbating the problem, or other times the farther lance going even farther away from the main group, or all three lances splitting off into 3 directions.

[Nehkrosis]

I thoroughly agree with regards to Therma and Alpine.

thers ALWAYS a lance that either gets butchered in Therma, and in Alpine the battle almost always comes down to the fight on what my friends term "battle mountain", the one overlooking two of the capture pints in conquest.

its getting pretty samey...

[Whiplash!!!]

Agree completely about Alpine and Therma, I actually logged in to write a post about it.

If the far off lance doesn't regroup and the other team's does, than the other team is going to win. Period.

The worst thing that can happen to your team is if the far off lance is a lance full of "champion" mechs. They never regroup and your team is already down 4 mechs.

GIANT TARGET, on 06 March 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

The Charlie spawn points are the worst placed in a lot of maps. River City for example, where the team starting around the water area, Charlie is around the container ship, they generally turn right towards water and regroup with Bravo and Alpha. But if a slow mech is late to react just for 5 or 6 seconds, the enemy Charlie's fast lights and mediums can easily intercept and the stragglers will never get any support from Bravo and Alpha. And since Charlie is usually PUGs, they rarely coordinate with the other lances and they're down 1 to 2 mechs right from the start.

When I'm on that side, not knowing the skill level of the other players, I always always have to remind my lancemates to turn hard right from the beginning. But it doesn't always work. When I'm on the other side in my ECM light or fast mediums, I take full advantage of that spawn point and try to isolate one or two of their assaults or heavies.

On Alpine Peaks it's a different problem. Usually both teams go to the hill around I9/H9 but Charlie, again being PUGs, often have no idea what to do. Their spawn is so far away from the other lances that the other lances don't show up on their minimaps. The H9/I9 area is in the opposite direction for Bravo and Alpha. So they wander off on their own and get killed.

I don't know if PGI is trying to be sadistic or what but you really can't choose spawn points that are any worse than these for PUGs.

Very good post. The game design team at PGI continues to make very poor design choices. They really do seem to just be bad at their job.

[damonwolf]

Especially in HPG Manifold. One team starts a lance at the corner of F5/F4/G4. I've seen Assaults get to Theta and cap even before the other teams lights get there. It's too much of an advantage to one team/ Please fix it so that the start points are relatively far enough away for both teams.