227 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Roadbeer, on 10 March 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

Well, since this is "OPPOSITE INNER SPHERE" Where Marik is the most organized House, and Lone Wolfs are the preferred front-line units...

yeah...Bizarro world. Because oddly Marik does have by far the most coordinated House stuff. And I see more Davions capping and hiding in the background than Liaos....

Bishop Steiner, on 10 March 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:

track which...the irony or the delusion? (House Marik...organized...c'mon guys......that's like complaining about House Steiner running Light Wolfpacks.....)

wait..they introduced the Banshee.... we DO have Light mechs now.........

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 March 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

yeah...Bizarro world. Because oddly Marik does have by far the most coordinated House stuff. And I see more Davions capping and hiding in the background than Liaos....

I dunno, the Victor is a great "scout mech", in that once the Steiner-Davion houses combine...

At least one mech will make their own house proud...

[Aym]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 March 2014 - 03:15 PM, said:

shame they haven't tracked which percent of that 16% are made of sync drops.....


can't tell if being ironic, or delusional..........................

Neither, I don't RP. Our in-game house is the largest and best organized House in the MWO Community.

[Bishop Steiner]

Aym, on 10 March 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

Neither, I don't RP. Our in-game house is the largest and best organized House in the MWO Community.

missing half the fun of being a marik if ya don't RP! Marik Civil Wars are the stuff of legend! (Of course, the Marik Mondays are becoming pretty famous, too!)

[mekabuser]

its a contentious issue which would go away if PGI would SHOW THE GROUPS.. thats it.. problem solved. . You show em ONYOUR team at the outset.. and you show em all at the END>. problem solved..

and you know why people do... ***** about them.. because there are ENOUGH out there from the inception of this game that exist to troll and troll only.. you know, various psychological issues, group and individual alike.

[Roadbeer]

mekabuser, on 10 March 2014 - 07:01 PM, said:

and you know why people do... ***** about them.. because there are ENOUGH out there from the inception of this game that exist to troll and troll only.. you know, various psychological issues, group and individual alike.

And so the Premade Boogeyman myth continues...

[Bhael Fire]

The whole "premade boogeyman" thing cracks me up. I find it hilarious that some people still see it as a "myth" when it's pretty well documented that PUG stomps happen frequently courtesy of premades...and depending on your Elo bracket and the time of day, that frequency increases.

So yeah, the fact is, groups ARE OP versus SOLO players. And it needs to stop.

There needs to be a SOLO (single players only) queue...AND a GROUPS (2-12) + SOLO queue.

[Roadbeer]

Bhael Fire, on 10 March 2014 - 08:00 PM, said:

There needs to be a SOLO (single players only) queue...AND a GROUPS (2-12) + SOLO queue.

I laughed my ass off at every word you said, except this last part which I agree with.

[Sandpit]

Bhael Fire, on 10 March 2014 - 08:00 PM, said:

The whole "premade boogeyman" thing cracks me up. I find it hilarious that some people still see it as a "myth" when it's pretty well documented that PUG stomps happen frequently courtesy of premades...and depending on your Elo bracket and the time of day, that frequency increases.

So yeah, the fact is, groups ARE OP versus SOLO players. And it needs to stop.

There needs to be a SOLO (single players only) queue...AND a GROUPS (2-12) + SOLO queue.

No, it's well-documented that there are a myriad of reasons for stomps that have absolutely NOTHING to do with premades. it's just easier to blame them.

Bhael Fire, on 10 March 2014 - 08:00 PM, said:

So yeah, the fact is, groups ARE OP versus SOLO players

and this statement pretty much sums up everything that's wrong with the "premades are the reason I lost" statements

[Bhael Fire]

Roadbeer, on 10 March 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

except this last part which I agree with.

Thanks. But I'm not quite sure why you think it's a "boogeyman" to say that MM is currently pitting premade groups against solo players. It does it pretty frequently....and anyone that's been on the receiving end repeatedly during the course of a normal evening's gaming session, it gets old very quickly and can be very frustrating.

[Bhael Fire]

Sandpit, on 10 March 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

No, it's well-documented that there are a myriad of reasons for stomps that have absolutely NOTHING to do with premades.

Absolutely. Not my point exactly, but yes I agree; you can NOT blame each defeat on premade vs PUGs...that not the issue here.

I'm saying that it's foolish to say that the issue of Premades vs PUGs isn't an issue...and that it's simply a figment of bad player's imaginations.

[FupDup]

Bhael Fire, on 10 March 2014 - 08:09 PM, said:

Thanks. But I'm not quite sure why you think it's a "boogeyman" to say that MM is currently pitting premade groups against solo players. It does it pretty frequently....and anyone that's been on the receiving end repeatedly during the course of a normal evening's gaming session, it gets old very quickly and can be very frustrating.

IMO, the issue isn't so much pugs versus premades so much as it is experienced players versus inexperienced ones. Theoretically, veteran players are more likely to be in a premade than newbies, which can sort of exasperate things (i.e. good players might choose to hang around with other good players, which can short-circuit the MM if not enough people are online concurrently to match against their skill level), but that's besides the point. I'm not a good player by any means, but holy jesus have I seen some horrible players in my time.

I mean, people who could literally belong to the steering wheel underhive, how poorly they pilot. People who never press the R key, or who try to snipe me from 700 meters with Medium Lasers, or never twist... And I'm saying this as somebody who pugs the majority of the time (but once in a blue moon I do hang around with some buddies). Those people who I'm observing to be really bad at the game are probably also pugging, although there is a slight chance they are rolling a premade.



PS: I personally don't like the distinction of "solo" versus "group" players. Even if you're dropping "solo" the game puts you in a random group of 11 other players. When I "pug," I'm still in a group...the only difference is that my group is a bunch of people I probably have never met before. The only players who can truly be called "solo" are the rare few who run in a completely different direction from the rest of their team (and get boned).

Edited by FupDup, 10 March 2014 - 08:22 PM.

[Bhael Fire]

FupDup, on 10 March 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

IMO, the issue isn't so much pugs versus premades so much as it is experienced players versus inexperienced ones.

Yes, I agree with this. And I agree that experienced players tend to hang out in premades. I used to play exclusively with a group of 6 other friends (we called ourselves the "Red 7" lol).

However, there's a small percentage of us CB vets that only play solo these days — I just don't have time to hang out in TS lobbies these days looking for people to drop with and neither do most of my other friends that used to play. And from the looks of it, neither do most of MWO's casual fan-base.

While I'm by no means an expert pilot, I'm also not derping around, bumping into fellow teammates stripping their armor off, launching my LRMs at nothing (ok sometimes I do that), wasting ammo and firing off ordnance at random shit like hills and dead mechs, or shit talking players that are still alive on my team just because I'm dead and they're not.

People that are playing by themselves, without anyone else, should not be forced to play against players that are in organized, premade groups unless they WANT to. Being randomly placed on a team without VOIP by MM is not quite the same as forming up a group in TS. Anyone that's done this should know better.

This is why I laugh/roll-eyes when I hear the term "premade boogeyman."

[Sephlock]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 March 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

missing half the fun of being a marik if ya don't RP! Marik Civil Wars are the stuff of legend! (Of course, the Marik Mondays are becoming pretty famous, too!)

What about the master?

[Aym]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 March 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

missing half the fun of being a marik if ya don't RP! Marik Civil Wars are the stuff of legend! (Of course, the Marik Mondays are becoming pretty famous, too!)

I know you're joking, and I am still LOVING the Marik shout out love, but I HAVE to say I didn't RP then either, lol.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 10 March 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

PS: I personally don't like the distinction of "solo" versus "group" players. Even if you're dropping "solo" the game puts you in a random group of 11 other players. When I "pug," I'm still in a group...the only difference is that my group is a bunch of people I probably have never met before. The only players who can truly be called "solo" are the rare few who run in a completely different direction from the rest of their team (and get boned).

I said HI THERE in a match and you ignored me.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 10 March 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

PS: I personally don't like the distinction of "solo" versus "group" players. Even if you're dropping "solo" the game puts you in a random group of 11 other players. When I "pug," I'm still in a group...the only difference is that my group is a bunch of people I probably have never met before. The only players who can truly be called "solo" are the rare few who run in a completely different direction from the rest of their team (and get boned).

Being in a group does not make you part of a team. There is a fine distinction Fup, but that distinction is HUGE!

[Prezimonto]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 03 March 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

The quote



Is from the same post.

So we now have two instances where they said 84% players drop solo. Once from Paul and once from Bryan.

Whereas you guys keep extrapolating that earlier quote based on the word "launch". Which seems to be a bad use of the word by Paul.

All that says is they're bad at conveying data.

Either Bryan is wrong and Paul has one mis-statement, OR the actual data presented is wrong and the text is correct.

Either way someone over there is wrong, and it looks yet again like they're shadily manipulating data to tell some kind of story they want to sell, rather than honestly presenting data.

Either way their data is taken from a system that's forced more and more players to play solo by discouraging groups (size, communication, lack of a lobby killing casual and non-casual groups of larger than 4) for well over a year. So attempting to draw information from it is using a heavily biased sample based on artificial restrictions, not an actual representation of how players would like to be playing.

[Peter2k]

One game someone was raging about evil premades ruining the game, and I was telling him: dude we don't even talk tactics in 4 mans, this is not 12 mans
We're just having fun on comms
A few seconds later a buddy started about which cup size we like the most (probably only to make a point) and we agreed on perky B, maybe C
But it's also that you're used to the play styles of you're mates a little, u don't need comms to know what they'll be doing in certain situations
I think the most tactical talk over comms in a group of 4 or less was:
Damn there's a whole lot of LRM rain coming in from....

Or spectating and telling a new player (I hope) that LRM's are useless below 180m, or don't use you're mediums at 600m, don't use MG's at 300m
I think that the bogey man is more like too many veterans clashing against too many new players

[Sandpit]

Peter2k, on 11 March 2014 - 04:44 AM, said:

One game someone was raging about evil premades ruining the game, and I was telling him: dude we don't even talk tactics in 4 mans, this is not 12 mans
We're just having fun on comms
A few seconds later a buddy started about which cup size we like the most (probably only to make a point) and we agreed on perky B, maybe C
But it's also that you're used to the play styles of you're mates a little, u don't need comms to know what they'll be doing in certain situations
I think the most tactical talk over comms in a group of 4 or less was:
Damn there's a whole lot of LRM rain coming in from....

Or spectating and telling a new player (I hope) that LRM's are useless below 180m, or don't use you're mediums at 600m, don't use MG's at 300m
I think that the bogey man is more like too many veterans clashing against too many new players

We had a guy last night yelling about MM and being out tonned being the reason they lost. After the match I counted and his team had us out tonned by 125 tons.......

See what I mean?