118 replies to this topic

[Coralld]

SirLANsalot, on 05 March 2014 - 05:27 PM, said:

Game is not table top. Stop pulling rules for a game that this is not.

MWOs function is based off of TT rules or at least used as guidelines. True some TT rules have no pemise in MWO as they simply do not transfer over well to a FPS, such as random shooting. However we can mimic them to achieve some semblance of the TT rules, and if that brings about better balance then so be it. If you and other have an issue with that philosophy then that's your problem, not mine.

[Varent]

Coralld, on 05 March 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

MWOs function is based off of TT rules or at least used as guidelines. True some TT rules have no pemise in MWO as they simply do not transfer over well to a FPS, such as random shooting. However we can mimic them to achieve some semblance of the TT rules, and if that brings about better balance then so be it. If you and other have an issue with that philosophy then that's your problem, not mine.

We dont need to mimic them. Its not TT.

We need to balance the game without TT in mind otherwise you will continue to try to create two games in one. TT was created over 30 Years ago. This was before the first inventions of FPS. There is no reason to consider TT rules and concepts valid in the creation of a good online FPS.

[Firelizard]

Problem: Jump-sniping

Solution: Jumpjets provide as much forward thrust as upward thrust.

Result: Jump-snipers either jump over their cover, or need to stand off (and return to the standoff position after each shot)

Bonus result: Jumpjets can now be used for bounding as well as navigating vertical terrain.

[Coralld]

Varent, on 05 March 2014 - 05:39 PM, said:

We dont need to mimic them. Its not TT.

We need to balance the game without TT in mind otherwise you will continue to try to create two games in one. TT was created over 30 Years ago. This was before the first inventions of FPS. There is no reason to consider TT rules and concepts valid in the creation of a good online FPS.

True, and I agree with you, but partially, but what I am saying is if we can take rules based off of TT and spin it in a way that it works for MWO and it brings about better balance, then whats the problem? I have thought about and put forth all sorts of ideas that are not TT base. Just wish people didn't flip a b*tch about an idea that is based off of to mimic a rule that is in TT. As I said, if it improves the game balance, why not at least consider it?

[xXBagheeraXx]

I was actually coming to the forums to post about this...The jumpjet change MURDERED Highlanders, but victors dont feel the change at all....The jump distance was unchanged, however it takes ages even with max jumpjets to get the mech up in the air...now before you say "QQ MOAR POPTART N00B" THIS is my recently purchased 733C build. There is nothing meta about it, I simply like the option that the jumpjets made the mech more manuverable, and gave me the option of lobbing an ac20 over a hill before i got in close to mix it up. I now have no reason to Pilot that mech over an atlas whatsoever, an will definitly be repurchasing my 9B to join the increasing poptarting masses since I have ALL the atleses, battlemasters, and stalkers worth having and no desire to pursue the new banshee assault.

[Ghogiel]

The VTR is master race

HGNs are still strong though. but yeah it go nerfed.

[xMintaka]

I've spent a few games testing this "nerf".

All it's done is nerfed the HGN into the ground. I don't own any other than the -HM, so I can't truly comment but that's how it seems.

My VTR performs just fine. All I had to do was drop a ton of ammo for a jumpjet. Toying with swapping that jumpjet for another ton of ammo, but needs more games to tell (swapped the ton of ammo for the JJ as soon as the game loaded).

Likewise, the SHD-2H poptart (2x AC5, ERPPC) is just as potent as before.


Granted, they said they were pointing the nerfbat at a mech in particular, but this seems excessive. If you're trying to nerf poptarting then nerf poptarting. Not a certain mech that can equip a certain class of jumpjet. All this has done is moved the carrylander pilots into VTR's and/or SHD's.

It's a start, but it needs work. Convergence would be a good place to begin this work.

Edited by Lunatech, 05 March 2014 - 06:40 PM.

[El Bandito]

I swapped my DS' UAC with regular AC and used the extra ton to add the fourth JJ. Jumping is as good as before.

[Zerberus]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 04 March 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

max jumpjets on a highlander gets you some big air now. anyone try the 12 JJ spider yet?

Yes, and I took a screenshot:

[xXBagheeraXx]

Dragon slayers still run just fine on 3 jump jets with 5 tons of ammo and standard ppcs....rest into heat sinks and business as usual.

[SirLANsalot]

the JJ's seem to give you more distance then before. My Heavy metal now can fly 16m with 1 JJ, before it was just 5, so that is an interesting change.

Also something noteworthy HEAVY METAL my build that I know and love and have used for a long time. Still works even with all 5 JJ (and boy can it FLY now) the adjustment is from LPLs to LL (a drop of 4.2 damage) which makes it run a little cooler, and a few HS to sacrifice. I normally ran 2 JJ and probably still will, but I just ran my build together again with the thought of "what if I could do it with all the JJ".

The HM is the only one with 5 JJ the 733C has 4 but the rest with 3 got hit the worst with this supposed "nerf". The HGN-733C seems to be the least affected by this change if you run all 4 JJ (you can still retain that AC20 and twin ERPPC still). So overall the mechs did not change, you just might have to think a little differently when approaching the Highlanders is all.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

SirLANsalot, on 05 March 2014 - 08:11 PM, said:

The HGN-733C seems to be the least affected by this change if you run all 4 JJ (you can still retain that AC20 and twin ERPPC still). So overall the mechs did not change, you just might have to think a little differently when approaching the Highlanders is all.

Nice try, but that build is unusable. Some builds still work for HGN, but it got hit hard by the bat.

[SirLANsalot]

ugrakarma, on 05 March 2014 - 08:35 PM, said:

Nice try, but that build is unusable. Some builds still work for HGN, but it got hit hard by the bat.

if your referring to twin AC5......Bhaaaa says the meta sheep.

Twin UAC5 is good yes but runs short on tonnage due to the need of those JJ's to actually make it work. that is my actual build I use (the SRM/Sreaks change from time to time) when I do run a 733C.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

SirLANsalot, on 05 March 2014 - 10:15 PM, said:

if your referring to twin AC5......Bhaaaa says the meta sheep.

Twin UAC5 is good yes but runs short on tonnage due to the need of those JJ's to actually make it work. that is my actual build I use (the SRM/Sreaks change from time to time) when I do run a 733C.

Please don't put words to my mouth and/or degrade me. Cheers. HGN is still a good chassis for sniping, brawling and support. 2 tons per JJ is a pricey tax to pay though and sacrifices must be made.

I'm not trying to troll or anything. I just have to ask, how on earth do you manage your heat in that thing? It seems awful hot even when used in two sets of LR and SR.

[SirLANsalot]

ugrakarma, on 05 March 2014 - 10:26 PM, said:

Please don't put words to my mouth and/or degrade me. Cheers. HGN is still a good chassis for sniping, brawling and support. 2 tons per JJ is a pricey tax to pay though and sacrifices must be made.

I'm not trying to troll or anything. I just have to ask, how on earth do you manage your heat in that thing? It seems awful hot even when used in two sets of LR and SR.

Hang back and just poke with the paired PPC's. 15 DHS keeps them somewhat under control on cold maps and the hot maps....you will need to chain-fire them. The AC20 and Streaks are for when things breakout into a brawl, either with a light or anything else. The twin ERPPCs work at any range, so basically you have a dual AC20 mech for all intensive purposes, just one AC20 happens to not need ammo and is 800m opti range. The mech is not for the Meta Sheep (takes something called pilot skill), it can poptart if it wants to but it can just brawl like anything else so its a well rounded mech. Bring Coolshots to emergency purposes, on a hot map and you need to fire those PPCs more often then you should and are running hot.

Still nothing can compare to the pure power of the AC20. Paired PPCs are basically the same thing (same tonnage too) as an AC20, the cost is in heat (instead of ammo) but good piloting skill can take that drawback away very quickly.

[Shae Starfyre]

Adding my experience; only JJ mech I use is a brawler Dragon Slayer using 3 JJ's (always built that way).

I haven't used it much since the patch, but I did note the following:

1.) I cannot get a full 180 degree turn in mid-air anymore with a full use of the JJ's; however, I get enough to bring my arms to the rear (I land at about 140 degrees or so).

2.) I can't do it as often.

So; now my tactics of in-fighting changed slightly to be more horizontal to the enemy fighting which has, surprisingly, improved my survivability as I am not exposing my back as often and my arms are taking a little more damage than my side torso's; however, the recharge has significantly reduced the ability to move in and out quick enough if I do not keep this in mind.

So, basically, I have change tactics and account for a new mechanic which everyone else has to, so, in essence, in about two or three weeks, it will feel like nothing has changed.

Edited by Aphoticus, 06 March 2014 - 05:44 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Ghogiel, on 05 March 2014 - 06:06 PM, said:

The VTR is master race

HGNs are still strong though. but yeah it go nerfed.

So, what? About 2-3 months of Victors running around Poptart murdering people with their Class II jump jets...then Paul comes and makes some silly post foreshadowing the nerf of Victors?

Lets set the over/under at 2 and a half months. GO.

[Kaeb Odellas]

SirLANsalot, on 05 March 2014 - 10:35 PM, said:

Hang back and just poke with the paired PPC's. 15 DHS keeps them somewhat under control on cold maps and the hot maps....you will need to chain-fire them. The AC20 and Streaks are for when things breakout into a brawl, either with a light or anything else. The twin ERPPCs work at any range, so basically you have a dual AC20 mech for all intensive purposes, just one AC20 happens to not need ammo and is 800m opti range. The mech is not for the Meta Sheep (takes something called pilot skill), it can poptart if it wants to but it can just brawl like anything else so its a well rounded mech. Bring Coolshots to emergency purposes, on a hot map and you need to fire those PPCs more often then you should and are running hot.

Still nothing can compare to the pure power of the AC20. Paired PPCs are basically the same thing (same tonnage too) as an AC20, the cost is in heat (instead of ammo) but good piloting skill can take that drawback away very quickly.

ERPPCs are just way too hot to use. Regular PPCs would be better for that kind of build. If you need close range firepower, the AC20 and streaks should be all you need.

This is a little more optimize. Much faster, better armored, and better heat efficiency even with fewer heat sinks because of standard PPCs.

Or you can do this.Drops one jump jet and a streak launcher, but gives you much more staying power with more ammo, armor, a standard engine, and a nice shield arm.

[Varent]

Kaeb Odellas, on 06 March 2014 - 06:13 AM, said:

ERPPCs are just way too hot to use.

This. Nothing more.

[Ghogiel]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 06 March 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

So, what? About 2-3 months of Victors running around Poptart murdering people with their Class II jump jets...then Paul comes and makes some silly post foreshadowing the nerf of Victors?

Lets set the over/under at 2 and a half months. GO.

I shall welcome our STKM overlords