47 replies to this topic

[Trauglodyte]

CapperDeluxe, on 05 March 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

I actually agree, they have a bit too much HP. I waltzed into a base with a battlemaster thinking it would only take 3-4 alphas of 6 medium lasers + 2AC5 to kill a single turret... I think it was double that, maybe more?

I remember when the turrets first came out. I walked into the base thinking that the AC20 and double Lrg Lasers on my Jager would be more than enough. I was more than a little wrong. The damage that they do isn't a lot but the time it takes for you to actually take one out solo is more than enough time to get some orange armor going.

Then again, I had a game a couple of weeks back where a team of 4 Mediums took out and capped out base on Scarlet. They were fast enough to get there in a hurry and had enough damage to take the turrets out quickly.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Trauglodyte, on 05 March 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

I remember when the turrets first came out. I walked into the base thinking that the AC20 and double Lrg Lasers on my Jager would be more than enough. I was more than a little wrong. The damage that they do isn't a lot but the time it takes for you to actually take one out solo is more than enough time to get some orange armor going.

Then again, I had a game a couple of weeks back where a team of 4 Mediums took out and capped out base on Scarlet. They were fast enough to get there in a hurry and had enough damage to take the turrets out quickly.

Turrets also have dead spots, if you are patient and learn where they are, you can take them out without any damage dealt to you.

[Mechteric]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 05 March 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

Turrets also have dead spots, if you are patient and learn where they are, you can take them out without any damage dealt to you.

Yeah thats what I ended up doing on alpine, I could hit some of them just over the tops of the buildings using the high mounted lasers on my mech. That and some were LRM launchers so couldn't hurt me within their range.

I guess the thing is that the purpose of the turrets was to help prevent or deter for a while a lone or maybe 2 light mechs or something. But to take that much punishment from assaults it causes the attacking team to have to snipe away at the base first, which only further makes people not want to take brawler mechs at times.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 05 March 2014 - 12:28 PM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

CapperDeluxe, on 05 March 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

Yeah thats what I ended up doing on alpine, I could hit some of them just over the tops of the buildings using the high mounted lasers on my mech. That and some were LRM launchers so couldn't hurt me within their range.

I guess the thing is that the purpose of the turrets was to help prevent or deter for a while a lone or maybe 2 light mechs or something. But to take that much punishment from assaults it causes the attacking team to have to snipe away at the base first, which only further makes people not want to take brawler mechs at times.

Meh, I've still yet to be in a situation where they mattered on Crimson Strait...so having a hard time seeing how it would be much different with Alpine or Tourmaline. I get the smaller maps could be interesting.

[MonkeyDCecil]

It seems to me that they have to much armor. I am fine will medium lasers and LRMs as there weapons. But they seem to have more armor then a light mech. I not sure how much armor. But I just played a match and it took 5 alphas of 3 med lasers and a AC/20.

[Bilbo]

MonkeyDCecil, on 05 March 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

It seems to me that they have to much armor. I am fine will medium lasers and LRMs as there weapons. But they seem to have more armor then a light mech. I not sure how much armor. But I just played a match and it took 5 alphas of 3 med lasers and a AC/20.

150 pts.

[topgun505]

My judgement on turrets kind of hinges on what the devs intentions were for implementing turrets?

Was it their intent to make a hardened safe zone for each team and to make it so just one or two lights would not be able to cap a base by themselves?

If so then i think they did ok.

If they were intending that just one or two lights would still be able to cap then i think this is a massive fail.

There are far too many turrets spread across too wide an area. Many of which have a pretty extended range, and all of which have a considerable amount of hit points. And, as noted, they are NOT effected by ECM.

Thanks to revisions on the capping speed months ago, capping (especially solo) is almost an imposibility at this point since it is so slow and most maps so small that even assault mechs can get back to stop the cap in time. Add in turrets and it just makes the situation worse. You can try to run through them and take passing pot shots but there are typically enough turrets that still have LOS on you that you will be orange if not cored by the time you kill one or two. It is death by a thousand papercuts.

You can try to snipe them at the max range that they will stay popped open but it will take you all game to eliminate enough to make capping possible and in the mean time you arent helping your team at all.

I used to like Assault because doing a cap was a tactic to be used to try and split up the team. But now that's just not feasible and it removes one of the few roles that lights had in this game.

[Charons Little Helper]

The main change that I'd make to turrets is to make them still take 10%-20% damage when closed.

Sure - mechs can stay outside of their range & pummel them.

But it'd still take some time - and either the mech would also have to wait for heat - or eat through tons of their ammo.

Oh - and if their shooting your turrets - they're busy not shooting you or your buddies.

[Corvus Antaka]

one big shame is that they've turned river city from a brawling map into a sniping map. this map should just have turrets near the base itself with Mlasers.

one good idea that came up today is a turret command center, whoever controls it controls all the turrets on the map maybe more than1 control center even?

Edited by Colonel Pada Vinson, 05 March 2014 - 03:06 PM.

[orcrist86]

This could be the advantage of a command console... direct the turrets.

[fluffypinkbunny]

I had a team claim there was no reason to assault, due to the turrets defending the base, my lance lead a charge which allowed us to CAP the enemy base with only one turret destroyed. the enemy team QQ'ed all I said was guard yo base bro.

[Bhael Fire]

My initial impression is that it just feels like Skirmish even more now in Assault. Instead of using information warfare to find out if the other team was dumb enough to leave their base completely undefended without patrols in the area around it, it has become an awkward mutated version of Skirmish with caps that you have to kill first.

But whatever, my opinion apparently isn't a popular one...I'll adapt.

Edited by Bhael Fire, 05 March 2014 - 08:38 PM.

[wanderer]

Honestly, I think most of it is lack of familiarity.

Turrets are missile bait. Get a unit close enough to make it open but behind cover, a few LRM salvos, and bam. Scrap metal. Cut a few turrets out and you have yourself a path to cap. Teamwork.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 05 March 2014 - 02:40 PM, said:

one big shame is that they've turned river city from a brawling map into a sniping map. this map should just have turrets near the base itself with Mlasers.

one good idea that came up today is a turret command center, whoever controls it controls all the turrets on the map maybe more than1 control center even?

LOVE that idea.

[Almond Brown]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 06 March 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

LOVE that idea.

Defend your Base or your Command center? What is the difference? Does the CC get turret protection or will it just be out there? CC capture or destroyed or both allowed?

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Almond Brown, on 06 March 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

Defend your Base or your Command center? What is the difference? Does the CC get turret protection or will it just be out there? CC capture or destroyed or both allowed?

Anything that adds some dynamic objectives to this game is good. Obviously would need to be fleshed out more. And the current turrets are probably too strong for it.

But the idea of having a separate objective that could give your team control over turrets is a great idea.

I still think something like an Ammo Dump you can take over where your team can reload.

Or a Repair Bay that can repair armor back to 50% or something like that.

REAL objectives, that might give you a reason to take lights and mediums over assaults. Because you need to move fast to get a hold of them.

[Ingvay]

PhoenixFire55, on 05 March 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

What was the big idea for adding turrets on all assault maps is beyond me. They already ruined gameplay in RiverCity, matches there are nothing but 10 mins of sniping left and right, and depending on the result either a standoff in the end or turret roflstomp by a lance of assault mechs.

I understood the need for testing turrets out for possible future game modes, but they are NOT needed / wanted on current assault maps. There is little enough incentive to attack the enemy base as is, much less so now.

The real problem with river city is that with turrets the base locations as currently set stink. Something closer to the original base locations would help greatly. But honestly, how about less turrets on the small cluttered maps like river city?

[Corvus Antaka]

Almond Brown, on 06 March 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

Defend your Base or your Command center? What is the difference? Does the CC get turret protection or will it just be out there? CC capture or destroyed or both allowed?

the thought is that then you have 2 objectives - defend your base and the command center. if you lose the command center, your bases turn on you, making base camping alone problematic

[Almond Brown]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 06 March 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

Anything that adds some dynamic objectives to this game is good. Obviously would need to be fleshed out more. And the current turrets are probably too strong for it.

But the idea of having a separate objective that could give your team control over turrets is a great idea.

I still think something like an Ammo Dump you can take over where your team can reload.

Or a Repair Bay that can repair armor back to 50% or something like that.

REAL objectives, that might give you a reason to take lights and mediums over assaults. Because you need to move fast to get a hold of them.

Was not directly disagreeing with the premise, just wondering if fighting over a Base square or a CC square would actually change the current dynamic.

Obviously this CC could not be Turret defended as that defeats the purpose of capturing it for control. Having to destroy any turrets that would defend said CC pretty much negates the need for its control as an offensive/defensive unit.

What might work on the Larger maps though would be many smaller units that each control a single turret unit. That way, capping those points would only control certain turrets and which ones are unknown until after capture is successful.

So capturing a CC in Alpha 5 may in fact gain you control over a Turret (or cluster thereof) in Charlie 8.

Many, many fun opportunities, given the unknown of what CC controls which Turret cluster and that control is a random value every Match.

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 06 March 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:

the thought is that then you have 2 objectives - defend your base and the command center. if you lose the command center, your bases turn on you, making base camping alone problematic

LOL! Do you really think that cries of "RTCC" would elicit any more response then, as "RTB" does now.

[Corvus Antaka]

Almond Brown, on 06 March 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

LOL! Do you really think that cries of "RTCC" would elicit any more response then, as "RTB" does now.

crying never changes. in skimrish the whinos ***** when the spider snipes endgame. ina ssault they ***** when base is capped, now they ***** turrets cause base camping sniping wars.

******* will *****, this a is the way of the world, and as we can observe the same people here bitching over everything, it's fairly conclusive that mainly their bitching for bitchings sake.